Two questions about internet (cell and Starlink)

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you get far enough out, Starlink is the only choice. If you go far enough out, even that won't work. There are areas that are currently outside their coverage footprint ( Alaska ...).

If you head out of the US, all of your cell plans will go a bit weird. Speeds will drop and data allowances may be very small. You can get a local SIM card. Our experience with that was not very good ( same slow speeds / poor coverage ).

We're sitting here right now on Starlink. Speeds vary a bit. The test I just ran hit 3 MB/s down and 7 up. Prior tests have occasionally made it into the 8 MB/s down range. Back in the US, I'd be able to find 50 MB/s cell / hotspot rates in an urban area.

Lots of variables

Bob

[Merlintiaga]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Interesting; my WeBoost direct antenna, seems to provide great alternative without the monthly $130cost...but I see the Sahara dessert may present problems...but so will tree tops without a clear view North for Starlink, right? As for the newone mentioned, Unlimitedville, seems that one would have limited range with the indoor antenna vs the Weboost, plus again, another service charge? Don't understand Unlimitedville value if you have Weboost and already have an unlimited plan with ATT or Verizon? What am I missing?

Different people seem to have very different experiences with WeBoost. Mine works great, as long as the signal is pretty good, which defeats the entire purpose of the WeBoost. As long as I really don’t need it, it works great. With a weak signal I literally have to put my phone within 2 inches of the inside antenna.

[Vitaver]

I read that T-Mobile entered into a deal with Starlink where if cell reception is poor, it fails over to Starlink, to be implemented in the near future.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

Different people seem to have very different experiences with WeBoost. Mine works great, as long as the signal is pretty good, which defeats the entire purpose of the WeBoost. As long as I really don’t need it, it works great. With a weak signal I literally have to put my phone within 2 inches of the inside antenna.

Couple things I learned while "investigating" Weboost vs others. Note that other folks also have reported on Weboost and other brands. Weboost seems pretty consistent to my experiences as being very good; if not the best?
1) The Destination RV kit works the best; but only when stationary; sets up easily once cable is run inside to outside port. Best service will be with fewest junction/connections from antenna to amplifier inside and of course from amplifier to your inside antenna. I was told by Weboost folks and some folks on the Forum that you lose ohms/signal strength with each junction/connection in your line. I only have one junction; antenna to outside SAT/CAB connector ports, then ran cable inside from CAB port direct to amplifier. (remember I disconnected the cable and use that port only for my transition from outside antenna to the inside router.)
2) The 75ohm Directional Antenna 75ohm/Yagi works best. This comes with the Destination RV kit or can be purchased separately.
3) you need to make sure your at inside antenna is at least 20+ feet away from the outside antenna.
4) You need to make sure you use the signal finder to help locate direction of closest/strongest cell tour and point the antenna in that direction; then get the mounting pole at least above any structures for best signal. I had mine up 20' and it worked very well. I took 1/2bar signal to 5 bars on my Samsung and my wife had same experience.

If you have had issues with signal strength, check distance between your outside antenna and inside antenna and also how many connections you have in the cabling between them.

Footnote- my friend who also got a Weboost, got the Destination Reach kit..This is not the same as the Destination RV. The antenna is different and so is the amplifier. He says he has reasonable success/improved signal with the Omni antenna permanent mounted on his AS, as long as he has a strong cell tower signal...it will boost a bar or so...this set up is not as strong as the Destination RV with the 75ohm directional antenna. Hope this helps.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Vitaver

I read that T-Mobile entered into a deal with Starlink where if cell reception is poor, it fails over to Starlink, to be implemented in the near future.

Hi

Right now, the hardware to do Starlink is pretty big and somewhat power hungry. "The near future" could be a few years .....

At least on the setup we have here, cell phone calls over Starlink are a bit iffy. They also would need to dig into that a bit.

Bob

[Powayegg]

Our latest internet solution is the 5g Insty Connect with the angel wings antenna. We use a 4g verizon tablet sim and have been very happy with its performance. We get unthrottled wifi and use 200 - 300 gigibits per month. We use ROKU for our TV. The one exception is Quartzsite in Jan when thousands of RV's show up and overload the tower. Because we are retired WiFi is not critical but nice to have otherwise we would get the Insty Connect Binoculars antenna and Starlink. Our travels (fulltime) keep us mostly west of the Mississippi. Prior to this we used the 4g MOFI unit with a 10 ft antenna extension and it worked fairly well but the Insty Connect is a better idea in my opinion.

[Marcos6470]

Insty Connect

[K4TCJ]

Originally Posted by Marcos6470

Insty Connect

Installed Starlink a few weeks ago and used it in the desert in New Mexico and Arizona. 100% even in heavy rain and cloudy conditions. Powered by a 300 watt inverter it uses about 3 1/2 amps. In Bisbee AZ a tree was blocking the sky view and the speed dropped slightly. Looking forward to using it on the trip to Mexico in February.

[TrotGlober]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Missed my earlier question:

"consideration is cost for me right now.. Not sure how much value beyond cell/wifi service Starlink brings at this price? Appreciate input."

So, what is the investment $$ to start out for hardware and what does the monthly cost run?

So far, I have $550 for the WeBoost invested and my cell bill runs $130/month for our 2 phones, with unlimited data. Downside is I need to be able to detect the closest tower, using my signal locator app. Not an issue for us in most locations, except there was none in Black Canyon campgrounds outside Santa Fe last week, so we moved on.

Downside for the Starlink may be tree coverage only?

Appreciate comments.

Tree coverage is definitely a problem if you are wanting to use it for voice/video calls. The Starlink dish internally tracks the satellites across the sky, and if that path is interrupted by a tree or other obstruction, your connectivity drops. It comes back fast but will definitely impact real-time traffic.

You can often get around an obstruction with creative placement of the Dishy, but in heavy/dense forest, it's pretty useless.

Good to have cell backups and/or learn to use Google Maps, etc. to research sites before you arrive.

All that said, Starlink is enabling a lifestyle I never thought I'd have and it is an incredible bit of technology.

[Boondocker]

Starlink arrived today. Easy set up and its small enough to store under my front bunk when not in use. So good news.



I need to look into a 12V conversion or maybe not. Time will tell.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by TrotGlober

Tree coverage is definitely a problem if you are wanting to use it for voice/video calls. The Starlink dish internally tracks the satellites across the sky, and if that path is interrupted by a tree or other obstruction, your connectivity drops. It comes back fast but will definitely impact real-time traffic.

You can often get around an obstruction with creative placement of the Dishy, but in heavy/dense forest, it's pretty useless.

Good to have cell backups and/or learn to use Google Maps, etc. to research sites before you arrive.

All that said, Starlink is enabling a lifestyle I never thought I'd have and it is an incredible bit of technology.

We had a pretty incredible/interesting experience here in Sun City awhile back...neighbors were over and as we were saying good by around 9pm outside, we noticed several distant lights in the sky one at a time, like a line of UFO's! Neighbor said it was Starlink satellites being released...pretty crazy to see for sure!

Now if that happened today, likely an F16 would appear and shoot them down perhaps? LOL

[foobar]

There are a number of message threads on starlink on airforums, including details on how to integrate them into your trailer and power starlink from a 12v supply.

I spec'ed the integration plan out for my trailer (and A&P Vintage Trailer Works did the installation).

I can provide all of the part numbers, etc. but let's just provide a high level view of a seamless starlink integration into your trailer for now.

What is starlink RV? Starlink = A system that contains a rectangular satellite dish based transceiver (to communicate with a constellation of low earth orbiting satellites), a 120v powered wifi access point/router (that also provides power to the satellite dish), and a custom cable that connects the starlink wifi AP/router with the satellite dish.

The satellite dish requires 48V for power, delivered over the custom cable in a manner similar to Power over Ethernet (POE for short). The 48v is provided over the custom cable via a power supply integrated into the starlink AP/router.

In my system, I deleted the starlink wifi AP/router and power the starlink dish via a 12v to 48v DC-DC converter, capable of 98watts in case the snow melt function is needed (though starlink only needs about 40-50watts in normal operation).

My system is connected together as follows:

1. Starlink dish connects to a Smartplug ethernet bulkhead connector on the side of my trailer. The starlink wifi AP end of the cable is cut off and a standard shielded ethernet plug is crimped on the newly cut end of the cable using T568B wiring standard. The new standard ethernet connector gets plugged into the external ethernet receptacle on the smarplug bulkhead module.

2. Another ethernet cable is connected to the inside ethernet socket on the smartplug and routed via a standard ethernet cable to a lightening arrestor/surge protector/POE injector box that also unswizzles the slightly non-standard starlink cable wiring such that it is compatible with standard ethernet systems on the trailer side of the POE injector box. Jumper settings necessary to accomplish the unswizzle are available online.

3. The 12v to 48v DC-DC supplies power to the POE injector box.

4. The ethernet port on the trailer side of the POE injector connects to the WAN port of a pepwave BR1 PRO 5G cellular modem/router using a standard ethernet cable.

5. The pepwave modem/router is connected to a dual mimo cellular + wifi antenna on the roof of the trailer. The LAN port of the pepwave cellular modem is connected to a 12v gigabit switch.

6. The 12v gigabit switch is connected to a pepwave wifi access point that is mounted inside the trailer in addition to the LAN port of the pepwave modem. The switch is also connected to other things like the fusion radio, blu-ray player, Roku Ultras, smart TV's, cerbo gx, etc.

Everything above is powered from the 12v battery system on my trailer.

Operation: The pepwave cellular modem/router manages starlink and my cellular data plan. Starlink service is primary and the pepwave fails over to cellular data as a secondary service if Starlink is not available.

Implementing this is less complicated in practice than it sounds above, lol. I'm not the best writer on the planet for sure :-)

There are other details like I have a bluesea DC breaker panel that provides power on/off and circuit breaker functions to all of the individual equipment so I have fine grained control over power consumption, but I am leaving out details like that in order to "try" and provide a simpler overview.

I get anywhere from 100+MBps to 5MBps from starlink, depending on our location and how many others are sharing the same satellites at any given time.

Wifi calling from cell phone over starlink has been flawless. Netflix has excellent buffering algorithms and 4K UHD HDR video and audio have never glitched. Disney+ is the only streaming service so far that doesn't seem to handle starlink latencies and satellite gaps very well. Audio on Disney+ is seamless, but there are periodic disruptions in the video.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by foobar

There are a number of message threads on starlink on airforums, including details on how to integrate them into your trailer and power starlink from a 12v supply.

I spec'ed the integration plan out for my trailer (and A&P Vintage Trailer Works did the installation).

I can provide all of the part numbers, etc. but let's just provide a high level view of a seamless starlink integration into your trailer for now.

What is starlink RV? Starlink = A system that contains a rectangular satellite dish based transceiver (to communicate with a constellation of low earth orbiting satellites), a 120v powered wifi access point/router (that also provides power to the satellite dish), and a custom cable that connects the starlink wifi AP/router with the satellite dish.

The satellite dish requires 48V for power, delivered over the custom cable in a manner similar to Power over Ethernet (POE for short). The 48v is provided over the custom cable via a power supply integrated into the starlink AP/router.

In my system, I deleted the starlink wifi AP/router and power the starlink dish via a 12v to 48v DC-DC converter, capable of 98watts in case the snow melt function is needed (though starlink only needs about 40-50watts in normal operation).

My system is connected together as follows:

1. Starlink dish connects to a Smartplug ethernet bulkhead connector on the side of my trailer. The starlink wifi AP end of the cable is cut off and a standard shielded ethernet plug is crimped on the newly cut end of the cable using T568B wiring standard. The new standard ethernet connector gets plugged into the external ethernet receptacle on the smarplug bulkhead module.

2. Another ethernet cable is connected to the inside ethernet socket on the smartplug and routed via a standard ethernet cable to a lightening arrestor/surge protector/POE injector box that also unswizzles the slightly non-standard starlink cable wiring such that it is compatible with standard ethernet systems on the trailer side of the POE injector box. Jumper settings necessary to accomplish the unswizzle are available online.

3. The 12v to 48v DC-DC supplies power to the POE injector box.

4. The ethernet port on the trailer side of the POE injector connects to the WAN port of a pepwave BR1 PRO 5G cellular modem/router using a standard ethernet cable.

5. The pepwave modem/router is connected to a dual mimo cellular + wifi antenna on the roof of the trailer. The LAN port of the pepwave cellular modem is connected to a 12v gigabit switch.

6. The 12v gigabit switch is connected to a pepwave wifi access point that is mounted inside the trailer in addition to the LAN port of the pepwave modem. The switch is also connected to other things like the fusion radio, blu-ray player, Roku Ultras, smart TV's, cerbo gx, etc.

Everything above is powered from the 12v battery system on my trailer.

Operation: The pepwave cellular modem/router manages starlink and my cellular data plan. Starlink service is primary and the pepwave fails over to cellular data as a secondary service if Starlink is not available.

Implementing this is less complicated in practice than it sounds above, lol. I'm not the best writer on the planet for sure :-)

There are other details like I have a bluesea DC breaker panel that provides power on/off and circuit breaker functions to all of the individual equipment so I have fine grained control over power consumption, but I am leaving out details like that in order to "try" and provide a simpler overview.

I get anywhere from 100+MBps to 5MBps from starlink, depending on our location and how many others are sharing the same satellites at any given time.

Wifi calling from cell phone over starlink has been flawless. Netflix has excellent buffering algorithms and 4K UHD HDR video and audio have never glitched. Disney+ is the only streaming service so far that doesn't seem to handle starlink latencies and satellite gaps very well. Audio on Disney+ is seamless, but there are periodic disruptions in the video.

Trotglober in post #29 above, makes good points regarding coverage or "loss of coverage" due to trees. Likely not a big issue unless you camp in a forest, like we try to do in many of the parks. Plus/minus for both systems; it seems a trade off depending on where you want to camp. We all have cell phones, right?

To me, as long as I can get a "partial" bar/cell signal, my Weboost with telescoping directional antenna seems more functional for calling and streaming using my existing service, from what I read. And more economical also?

[foobar]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Trotglober in post #29 above, makes good points regarding coverage or "loss of coverage" due to trees. Likely not a big issue unless you camp in a forest, like we try to do in many of the parks. Plus/minus for both systems; it seems a trade off depending on where you want to camp. We all have cell phones, right?

To me, as long as I can get a "partial" bar/cell signal, my Weboost with telescoping directional antenna seems more functional for calling and streaming using my existing service, from what I read. And more economical also?

Far points, but I'm looking for a "both" scenario (starlink and cellular data) as I see them as complementary services.

Bunch of folks have put starlink dishes on 25' telescoping poles to get them above the trees. I'm considering that, but am hoping that just having an extra long starlink cable so I can position the starlink dish in a more open area will do the trick most of the time when there are trees around. Future experience and learning adventures will dictate what direction I end up going. Also, as starlink launches more satellites, it will be easier to get adequate coverage if the open field of view within a shady campsite is mostly straight up.

[trsvax]

I have both and a Peplink. I really only use the Starlink when the cell service is a problem. I've thought about mounting it but about half the time the best place is far from the Airstream. The more I use it the less inclined I am to mount it. Plus I can toss it in the truck and use it where ever.

I do have a cell antenna on the roof. That's easy.

I also have a separate 250 watt inverter that I run most of my electronics with. I got tired of trying to make everything 12 volt.

FYI: I'm a full time software developer so I need a reliable connection. I also use the Peplink Speed Fusion service. Very useful with Starlink if you have any cell service at all. At least for me Starlink drops out from time to time even with a clear sky. The speed varies a lot also.

I think cell is easier, better and usually fine. Starlink is necessary if you have to have an internet connection. Either could be your primary but I find Starlink more fiddly. I leave the Peplink on all the time and if the cell works I don't bother with Starlink.

[foobar]

Originally Posted by trsvax

I have both and a Peplink. I really only use the Starlink when the cell service is a problem. I've thought about mounting it but about half the time the best place is far from the Airstream. The more I use it the less inclined I am to mount it. Plus I can toss it in the truck and use it where ever.

I do have a cell antenna on the roof. That's easy.

I also have a separate 250 watt inverter that I run most of my electronics with. I got tired of trying to make everything 12 volt.

FYI: I'm a full time software developer so I need a reliable connection. I also use the Peplink Speed Fusion service. Very useful with Starlink if you have any cell service at all. At least for me Starlink drops out from time to time even with a clear sky. The speed varies a lot also.

I think cell is easier, better and usually fine. Starlink is necessary if you have to have an internet connection. Either could be your primary but I find Starlink more fiddly. I leave the Peplink on all the time and if the cell works I don't bother with Starlink.

Peplink speed fusion can bond starlink and cellular data service together using what is called forward error correction coding (FEC). Not worth discussing what that actually means from a technical point of view, but the net effect is that between the two services (starlink and cellular), you get 100% reliable connections with no packet loss at the slight expense of a bit of additional connection latency. I haven't bothered doing this yet as I've been pretty happy with starlink as primary service, failing over to cellular service as secondary when starlink is not available.

[TrotGlober]

Originally Posted by foobar

Far points, but I'm looking for a "both" scenario (starlink and cellular data) as I see them as complementary services.

Bunch of folks have put starlink dishes on 25' telescoping poles to get them above the trees. I'm considering that, but am hoping that just having an extra long starlink cable so I can position the starlink dish in a more open area will do the trick most of the time when there are trees around. Future experience and learning adventures will dictate what direction I end up going. Also, as starlink launches more satellites, it will be easier to get adequate coverage if the open field of view within a shady campsite is mostly straight up.

This is what I did/am doing. I ended up putting my router in the curb storage compartment where I have 120v power. I've got telescoping pole on rollbar light mounts off my tongue jack. I have a panel mount RJ45 that will go in the wall of the battery box, then Starlink cable will be run back to the curb compartment. From there I just Wifi-as-WAN to my Peplink and call it a day.

With the panel mount jack, I can either put up my panel on the telescoping pole up front or use the Pelican case it travels in as a ground deploy base. It gives me a lot of flexibility without too much extra "junk".

Where I can, I try to use Starlink because it is fast and has no bandwidth caps. When I can't do that, I have 2 discrete cell cards in my Peplink, and my handsets are on a different carrier than those so I can use them as hotspots.

It's not a cheap solution, I'll be the first to say. I work on the road a lot, in fact connectivity is what allows me the freedom to work/travel, so the investment in connectivity is worth it to me.

I looked into doing the 12V hack for my Dishy, it's not hard, but I move it between rigs frequently, and I like the ability to use it at home in the event of emergencies/outages.

[foobar]

FYI, when we cut the starlink cable, we put standard ethernet connectors on both ends of the cut cable. With a cheap female to female coupler, I can reassemble the cable so that the original cable configuration remains available for emergency use of starlink at home or other places if needed.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by foobar

Far points, but I'm looking for a "both" scenario (starlink and cellular data) as I see them as complementary services.

Bunch of folks have put starlink dishes on 25' telescoping poles to get them above the trees. I'm considering that, but am hoping that just having an extra long starlink cable so I can position the starlink dish in a more open area will do the trick most of the time when there are trees around. Future experience and learning adventures will dictate what direction I end up going. Also, as starlink launches more satellites, it will be easier to get adequate coverage if the open field of view within a shady campsite is mostly straight up.

Many times, I see folks with the Starlink antenna just sitting on the ground, or on their vehicle. Have not seen a 25' pole yet, but makes sense in some locations perhaps. I would just worry about wind and also, many times in a treed canopy, the trees are much higher than 25'!

I found that using the Weboost with directional "paddle" antenna, pointing at the closest tower most always gives me excellent reception for streaming, wifi, and cell service....most places...(that is, "most" places;-as long as there is a half bar or so...)

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

...around 9pm outside, we noticed several distant lights in the sky one at a time, like a line of UFO's! Neighbor said it was Starlink satellites being released...pretty crazy to see for sure!

It's called the "string of pearls". Musk launches as many as 60 small satellites from one rocket. Until they each are sent to their final orbits they can be seen in a line. Always after sunset or before sunrise when the Sun still shines on them.
I think there's a app that tracks the launch. I'd love to see the line passing by! Awesome!

As far as internet, I'm low tech. I have used my phone as a hotspot, but it's iffy. My minimal upgrade will be to a 4-G Hotspot and a MIMO antenna for a window. (5-G hotspots did away with TS-9 connectors and away from the city 4-G is what I'll get anyway.)