Next Generation Lithium Batteries

[pteck]

Next generation batteries are here. Not so much in chemistry but format, packaging, and price per kWh. About a 1/3rd of the price compared to the standard issue Battleborn.

Previous to this, I was using 2x 6V golf cart batteries paired with a 100ah portable lithium battery solution. https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37...um-196422.html Still works epically well. But at this new price point, time for an upgrade.

Enter the server rack batteries arriving on the market. This one specifically is the Signature Solar EG4-LifePower4, LiFePo4 400Ah 5120Wh battery in a steel server rack chassis. Integrated BMS, breaker, monitoring, grade A+ prismatic cells. Projected 10-20yr full cycle design life and 7000 cycles. That's easily up there and better than majority on the market.

Kicker - $1499. Or about $300/kWh. For an epic full featured 400Ah battery.

Sneak peak.

[Colossus]

Interesting! How much does it weigh? Thanks for sharing.

[field & stream]

Gotta love the price point ($375 per 100 Ah) and this is what is needed to get the larger electric only fridges powered for a significant number of days unplugged. At 109 pounds though, it is hard to handle. A 200 Ah version would be nice.

[SYC2Vette]

Originally Posted by field & stream

Gotta love the price point ($375 per 100 Ah) and this is what is needed to get the larger electric only fridges powered for a significant number of days unplugged. At 109 pounds though, it is hard to handle. A 200 Ah version would be nice.

Wow, no kidding regarding the weight. I imagine some unsuspecting person sliding that out of a server rack could be in for a bad surprise. Yes on the suggestion for a 200AH version.

[pteck]

No doubt she's heavy and would be important to note. For 400Ah as a single package, one would expect that. Nothing is necessarily going to be lighter or more compact for this size of battery. Lighter than my 2x 6v batts and moves the weight just aft.

It integrates a breaker, full featured BMS with low temp protection. Also easy on/off switch. 200amp continuous and 300amp surge. Enough to handle a 2000w inverter.

As much as I make a plug for batteries, solar is just as or more important. If anyone has less than 400W solar, that'll be the first thing to attack. I've never run out of power with FLAs, and this battery is about enabling additional use cases, possibly even run the AC for lunch stops.

It was so close to fitting in the front bay on my 27FB. Just 1/2" too deep. Fabricated a steel stand to get the necessary clearance while not taking up too much storage.

[field & stream]

Agree on the importance of solar, but in unfavorable solar conditions (overcast days, dense woods) there is no substitute for storage (except the hassles of generators).


You make good points about the weight, especially compared to lead acid. My comment was more about the packaging -- a single 109 pound package vs. two 55 pound packages.

[pteck]

Both good and important points.

I make the statement about solar because with many new to this, they assume batteries are the go to solution. They play an important role to your point. .It's just as important to note they are not a power source, but a buffer. Even with the largest batts, if there's a deficit of power coming in, will continually have to answer the question of how to replenish.

Solar is a real, and potentially indefinite source of power. Even with smaller batteries, solar can nominally provide endless power day to day. With 400W solar, a good rule of thumb is to assume 30% in Ah, or about 120Ah possible generated a day. That in itself with just standard batteries, can do some heavy lifting. I also make the point about having a large enough array, as with that, one can almost forego the converter in some use cases. And possibly even the TV 7-pin charging.

With a large battery, solar is equally important. It's easy enough to go on a power binge. But then how do you replenish the battery again for the next day? Solar should be a big part of that equation. Possibly converter, DC-DC charger, and a genny to have flexibility. Many of us hope to avoid that last option. Some deal with large 3000W class gennies that are 100lbs+ in itself regularly. Whereas a battery like this is once to install for perhaps decades to come.

A large solar array, or combination roof and portable array, is IMO a first priority over batteries.

[Taco Joe]

Great points. I first added 400 watts of solar to my Flying cloud 23FB and got well quite nicely (I have southern California sun most of the year.) Then II upped it to 580 watts mounted and an extra 80 on a long cord for when parked under trees. Finally I added 400Ah lithium with 200 more for the future if needed. I'll be testing out that future need boondocking on both coasts. Doing all of the work myself and picking up most items for around 20% off saved be around $4500. I've pretty much maxed out the capabilities for a small trailer.

[Taco Joe]

Originally Posted by pteck

Next generation batteries are here. Not so much in chemistry but format, packaging, and price per kWh. About a 1/3rd of the price compared to the standard issue Battleborn.

Previous to this, I was using 2x 6V golf cart batteries paired with a 100ah portable lithium battery solution. https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37...um-196422.html Still works epically well. But at this new price point, time for an upgrade.

Enter the server rack batteries arriving on the market. This one specifically is the Signature Solar EG4-LifePower4, LiFePo4 400Ah 5120Wh battery in a steel server rack chassis. Integrated BMS, breaker, monitoring, grade A+ prismatic cells. Projected 10-20yr full cycle design life and 7000 cycles. That's easily up there and better than majority on the market.

Kicker - $1499. Or about $300/kWh. For an epic full featured 400Ah battery.

Sneak peak.

Attachment 415931

Attachment 415932

Nice to know about the current price point. My Airstream is mostly finished for solar, but i have a detached building project that I will be starting this summer. I follow along on the You tube channel: DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse. He is super knowledgeable on all things DIY solar. He regularly disassembles and benchmarks all kinds of equipment, including server rack batteries. I'm going to try to find non-working panels at a discount for my next project as 80 - 90% can be fixed by replacing burnt out diodes.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

There have been all sorts of surplus batteries on the market at a similar price point for quite a few years ..... The gotcha is that 48V is not a very useful thing in an RV.

Bob

[pteck]

Installation done. I've now got capacity to explore more use cases. For what is IMO a relatively low price of entry. As much as I'm impressed with some of the installs here, I try to be pragmatic, avoiding complexity and costs where it's unnecessary.

Already had previous ($1200):
400W Solar
2000W Samlex SSW-2000 inverter
120V auto transfer switch

Added ($1750):
$1499 Signature Solar EG4-LifePower4, LiFePo4 400Ah 5120Wh
$80 Renogy 500A Battery Monitor Shunt
$143 Renogy 40A DC-DC Charger

Misc wires and hardware I already had.

For a total system cost of ~$3k, I've now got some solid capacity, enough to run the A/C as tested over this past hot weekend. Sure, it won't go a whole day and that was never the point, but it'll cover lunch easily.

A/C draw on high wants about 160amps to run my Dometic Blizzard NXT 15k A/C on high, which the battery will easily do. I find solar will contribute about 20 amps. Car via DC-DC will support another 20amps (pretty soon 40amps with addition of an Anderson plug). Using net about 100Ah over say lunch.

I did find that these server rack BMSs are tuned a bit more sensitive. It doesn't want to turn on the Airstream from complete off. With all the devices, inverter, and capacitance, the inrush current will trigger BMS protection. I found I could either get help from solar, converter, or use a resistor to first gently power up the "system", then the battery will happily support the loads from there. I'm okay with that as these big batteries can produce some serious instantaneous current, so I keep a little charging resister near the batt if I ever need it.

Requisite pics:

[richh]

Are you using the Renogy DC-DC converter to take the 48V to 12V for your DC distribution panel?

Is 40A enough for this?


Rich

[pteck]

Originally Posted by richh

Are you using the Renogy DC-DC converter to take the 48V to 12V for your DC distribution panel?

Is 40A enough for this?


Rich

Guess I didn't clarify well enough as server batts are more commonly 24V or 48V formats.

This particular unit is a 12.8V device with a 200amp (300A surge) BMS.

[richh]

Ahh - thanks. When I was looking at this battery it was the 48V model. I didn't realize they also had a 12v model.

[SandKSmith]

Following.

[RickBullotta]

That weight defeats one of the main points of Lithium batteries.

[markuscis]

Originally Posted by RickBullotta

That weight defeats one of the main points of Lithium batteries.

Let's see, The standard Battleborn 100Ah battery is 31lbs. This unit is 109 lbs with 400Ah. 109 / 4 = 27.25 lbs per 100Ah Granted it is all one large unit so installing is a bigger challenge but actually lighter overall.

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by pteck

Solar is a real, and potentially indefinite source of power.

Well, the sun will in about 4 or 5B years become a red giant and then in about 7/8B be out of fuel. We will be done at that first point so "indefinite" is a bit of a stretch

Originally Posted by pteck

A large solar array, or combination roof and portable array, is IMO a first priority over batteries.

For sure, but unless you are only using power while you are generating through the panels batteries should really be a top "co-priority" as they are just as important for storage.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

For sure, but unless you are only using power while you are generating through the panels batteries should really be a top "co-priority" as they are just as important for storage.

I'm not sure anyone is running solar on their trailers without a battery?

Many would be better served focused on solar first. As I've shared, I had great success with 400W solar and standard 6V lead acid batteries. Never really lacking for reserves boondocking. I rarely if ever plug in to the power pedestal, and converter is almost permanently turned off.

This upgrade is more about enabling use cases like running the A/C for lunch stops on hot summer days in the southwest without carrying a generator.

To that point, I'm now working on the DC-DC charger. I will likely be stacking 2. A 20amp unit that runs off the 7-pin embilical. And a 40amp unit off an Anderson circuit I'll be adding to my TV. On normal days/drives, the 20amp is just dandy. I can stack the 40amp, for a total of 60amp charging for run-time or charge recovery in supporting the A/C.

[WellSaid11]

upgrading batteries if needed, not adding them where they do not exist already.

sheesh!