National parks and dogs

[n2916s]

In Ranger training one year it was noted that about 20% of adult human beings are afraid of dogs. If you are a dog lover (I am), that may be hard to fathom but apparently is accurate.

That is one of the reasons that dogs are not permitted on trails or boardwalks in YNP - there are places where there is just no room for one of the 20% to avoid your dog. I believe they shouldn’t have to.

[BRS]

Originally Posted by n2916s

In Ranger training one year it was noted that about 20% of adult human beings are afraid of dogs. If you are a dog lover (I am), that may be hard to fathom but apparently is accurate.

That is one of the reasons that dogs are not permitted on trails or boardwalks in YNP - there are places where there is just no room for one of the 20% to avoid your dog. I believe they shouldn’t have to.

I am allergic to dogs. Most likely if your dog touches me I am reaching for my epipen. I have been bitten by a German Shepherd, two pit bulls on leash attacked me. I have been charged by a German Shorthair on a trail in GTNP. Last time I camped at a state park, people drove up and the first thing they did was let their dogs out , no leash, dogs are racing around the park. I carry bear spray but not for bears. I have camped next to RV’s with dogs barking all day. Yes, these are the bad apple dog owners. I admire a well trained dog, just keep it away from me.

[ROBERT CROSS]

We know nothing about safe Streaming with dog's, haven't been doing it long enough.

Bob
🇺🇸

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

We know nothing about safe Streaming with dog's, haven't been doing it long enough.



Bob

[emoji631]

[emoji106][emoji41]

[brad1]

Joshua Tree NP allows dogs on leash on roads and for 100 feet on either side, but not on any trail. They can be in designated campsites on leash.

[azflycaster]

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[drmox]

The #1 reason listed for not allowing dogs on any of the hiking trails in Grand Tetons NP is the proliferation of wildlife. Dogs interfere with, attack, or get eaten by wildlife.
However, the adjoining Bridger-Teton National Forest has no such restrictions for dogs.
Perhaps the wildlife just stays out of BTNF for this reason.

[n2916s]

No, just totally different wildlife management regulations. National Forests allow timber harvest, hunting, oil and gas extraction and in some, you can lease land for cabins, ski areas. At Christmas, most NF’s allow you to harvest a Christmas tree for minimal cost (or free). It is how the system is designed and it works pretty well.

National Parks, by law, are required to ‘preserve and protect” all of the natural features of the designated land in or near their natural condition. Whole different ball game. It causes NPS management all kinds of problems — on one hand, you need facilities for the public (hotels, restaurants, sewage treatment plants, parking, roads, campgrounds etc.) but you’re also supposed to minimize disturbance to the natural scenery. So the rules tend to be much stricter (dogs, drones, rafts, disbursed camping...).

No matter what decisions are made by either agency, there are going to be significant numbers of people who vigorously disagree.

[GetawA-S]

My personal issue is the dog waste that covers too many trails, especially bike trails.
I found this on a dog products website, 4 reasons to pick up the poo:
1) It lingers... up to a year, and ends up in surface water, causing excess algae growth.
2) It carries disease... and many seemingly healthy dogs are carriers. Recreational waters are often affected.
3) It’s considerate to clean up. Either you get this or you don’t.
4) Dog poop is not fertilizer. In the tens of thousands of years since they were domesticated, dogs have adapted to a rich diet that leaves excess, plant destroying nitrogen, in their waste.
These reasons are from a pet products website that I’m not linking in deference to forum rules, but it’s easy to google. I’ll add a fifth reason: in more heavily populated areas, rats and similar vermin depend on dog waste to maintain their population.

I once participated in a classroom exercise that involved taking the last part of the previous student’s response and adding your own: I would rather do X than Y... I would rather do Y than Z... The teacher shut it down when we heard, “I would rather pick up dog poop than step in dog poop!”

Happy (clean) trails to you!

[ROBERT CROSS]

^
YEP, for sure.

Bob
🇺🇸

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by GetawA-S

My personal issue is the dog waste that covers too many trails, especially bike trails.
I found this on a dog products website, 4 reasons to pick up the poo:
1) It lingers... up to a year, and ends up in surface water, causing excess algae growth.
2) It carries disease... and many seemingly healthy dogs are carriers. Recreational waters are often affected.
3) It’s considerate to clean up. Either you get this or you don’t.
4) Dog poop is not fertilizer. In the tens of thousands of years since they were domesticated, dogs have adapted to a rich diet that leaves excess, plant destroying nitrogen, in their waste.
These reasons are from a pet products website that I’m not linking in deference to forum rules, but it’s easy to google. I’ll add a fifth reason: in more heavily populated areas, rats and similar vermin depend on dog waste to maintain their population.

I once participated in a classroom exercise that involved taking the last part of the previous student’s response and adding your own: I would rather do X than Y... I would rather do Y than Z... The teacher shut it down when we heard, “I would rather pick up dog poop than step in dog poop!”

Happy (clean) trails to you!

Exactly.Leave the dog at home, in y'alls yards, where just the owner gets to step in it.

[psy1]

I love dogs!

I love listening to dogs mindlessly bark at anything while their owners are enjoying themselves at the expense of quietude. I love talking about how cute dogs are. I love watching dog owners watch their loved ones defecate and then either move on or hand bagging the crap in non-sterile bags. So cute! I love waking up to barking dogs. I love falling asleep to barking dogs. I love people who cannot function traveling without dogs.

I love listening to people who spend thousands of dollars on their dogs and RV's complain about prescription drug prices. I love meeting unleashed dogs on trails as they rush me with their love and affection. I love those who must have multiple dogs lest a single dog suffer loneliness.

Let us rejoice in dogs!

[gandttimes]

Amen.

[GettinAway]

Our dog never barks. I pick up her poop. I keep her on a leash. She really does not inconvenience anyone but my wife and I. She’s worth it. It does take effort, and unfortunately lots of folks won’t make the effort, or just don’t care.
Like loud music.. I mean, it’s all about me now, right?

[TouringDan]

Thanks GetawA-S. It is amazing what I learn on Airforums.

Dan

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by psy1

I love dogs!

I love listening to dogs mindlessly bark at anything while their owners are enjoying themselves at the expense of quietude. I love talking about how cute dogs are. I love watching dog owners watch their loved ones defecate and then either move on or hand bagging the crap in non-sterile bags. So cute! I love waking up to barking dogs. I love falling asleep to barking dogs. I love people who cannot function traveling without dogs.

I love listening to people who spend thousands of dollars on their dogs and RV's complain about prescription drug prices. I love meeting unleashed dogs on trails as they rush me with their love and affection. I love those who must have multiple dogs lest a single dog suffer loneliness.

Let us rejoice in dogs!

OMG...I hope we meet sometime.
Psycho-time for sure.

Bob
🇺🇸

[drmox]

Ummmm yeah, I created this thread for some suggestions on ways to still enjoy time with my dog and obey all the rules in a NP.
I also created a thread about Pet Peeves:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=219453
So everyone can unleash their inner Karen, and tell people to leave their dogs at home on that thread.

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by drmox

Ummmm yeah, I created this thread for some suggestions on ways to still enjoy time with my dog and obey all the rules in a NP.

Well good intension, not sure it really worked. But I understand that’s out challenge as well.

[Vitaver]

Is not the dog, is the owner. Is not the baby, is the parents. The adults are responsible and accountable. We go to nature for its bounty in landscape, flora and fauna. Hint: dog is fauna, just like we are. Anyone suffering uncontrollable fears, will do better in a more civilized environment, for the rest of us: let’s enjoy the adventure! BTW there is no adventure without some level of risk and unplanned events, encounters, etc. We chose to go to ‘the wild’, it did not come to visit us at the mall.

Dogs are our relatives but even closely more so with wolves, foxes, other mammals, etc. They belong in the parks more rightfully than us, an exotic species. Yes, pick up the poop, but please don’t claim that dog’s poop is worse for the environment than the likes of moose, bears, mountain lions and all the others. No, it does not last long before composting, is all organic matter. Dogs eat whatever they hunted or found for 2M years before we invented kibble, they can’t digest grain or plant material since they can’t break cellulose: it passes through their short digestive track un disturbed. The sole exception is partially digested found in the stomach of their prey. Unlike wildlife, they get annual physical and shots, they hardly are transmitters of disease.

The biggest draw back of exploring the wild with a dog off leash is when they provoke big game like a bear or moose: when they charge back they run to us for protection, with the beast close behind. Carry something to stop the threat and pray fast! Training at the range (and church) improves your odds.

[Peter417]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Indeed dogs *are* allowed in most National Park campgrounds. The gotcha is that things like Bison also are allowed in the same campgrounds. When the Bison decide that *your* campsite looks like the one to bed down it, taking the dogs for their evening / morning walk .... not so much. I have data on this ...

Indeed, even inside the truck, dogs and large wildlife can be a challenge. When the dog in the back seat decides to get excited about the Bison wandering past, things can get a bit tense. Nothing bad came of it in our case, but I can see things going a bit sideways ....

Bob

Oh man I just got to point out that not all national parks are the same. There are plenty of national parks that don't have bison or any good reason at all a dog shouldn't be allowed on a particular trail. We as country have a blanket no dogs policy at all national parks. Some places it makes since, most places it doesn't. We have a ton of lightly used trails in lightly used parks. I'm not sure what the spirit of the law was but it missed the mark.