John and Deb - Englewood, FL

[englewoodfl]

Hello from Englewood, FL. Starting out the new year looking for a crew cab and then an Airstream. Want a smallish used tandem but I'm not afraid of one that's needy.


Truck is the first thing. Most common crew that we saw out west were F150s with a heavy tow package. So I need to start there. Thinking 5.0 (Coyote) which is non-turbo. Thoughts?

[Hans627]

First of all, welcome to the forum and best wishes for the new year.

The F150 is the best selling vehicle in the US and it seems as though it is the most popular TV used by AS'ers. Especially if you are thinking of a 23' AS.

But don't make the mistake many of us have made which is not knowing the payload of the TV you are buying. Most any truck will tow any AS but depending on how much "stuff" you carry payload can easily be exceeded. Check the door jamb sticker which will show the payload.

Enjoy the search!

[englewoodfl]

If it's Ford we'll get max towing package, 5.0L, 36 gallon gas tank and driving assist. Locally the dealer has a truck out front with a $10K market adjustment. Need to find a dealer without these charges and the other things like $500 for make ready or prep. Know at least one retired Ford employee so I'll see if they still have special pricing. On previous vehicles have saved $$$.

[Slimpockets]

I bought my 22’ f150 at Long-Lewis ford in Prattville, Al. Sean was the sales guy 334-781-7146. They would honor the Costco car buying service price. I live in Atlanta but doing the 3 hour drive saved thousands off the sticker price. I have no affiliation with them. Just a satisfied customer.

[foobar]

Originally Posted by englewoodfl

If it's Ford we'll get max towing package, 5.0L, 36 gallon gas tank and driving assist. Locally the dealer has a truck out front with a $10K market adjustment. Need to find a dealer without these charges and the other things like $500 for make ready or prep. Know at least one retired Ford employee so I'll see if they still have special pricing. On previous vehicles have saved $$$.

Payload is your biggest challenge.

Trailer tongue weight directly subtracts from your tow vehicle payload rating.

Truck options (diesel, 4x4, moonroofs, running options) also reduce the theoretical marketed payload capacity, leaving many F150's with 1300lbs or less payload stickers on the driver's side door jamb.

Airstreams 25ft and larger end up with 1000-1200lb tongue weights when fully loaded (WD hitch weight also contributes to tongue weight, but this is commonly misunderstood).

So, since passengers and gear are also payload, the math gets ugly pretty quickly.

Hypothetical, but realistic example:

F150 payload sticker says 1400lbs.

25ft Airstream with WD hitch = 1200lbs

1400-1200 = 200lbs.

So, if your wife (cough, cough) weighs 200lb, then you have to leave the kids and the dog (and camping gear) at home, lol...

It is possible to get an F150 with payload stickers in the 1800 - 2200 range, but you typically need to order one and significant compromises are needed.

Example: as of the 2023 model year, you can only get the HDPP (heavy duty payload package) on the lowest trim level. This package along with the trailer tow package is needed to get 1800+ payload ratings. AND... you have to avoid larding up the truck with heavy options such as diesel engines, moon roofs, running boards, bed covers, etc. If you buy an XL model with long bed and 2 wheel drive, the HDPP and tow packages along with the right motor choice and skip most of the options, you can get around 2200-2400lb payload rating on an F150.

Don't expect the dealers to be knowledgeable with respect to helping configure a vehicle with you order a truck. Most have no idea how to configure an F150 for max towing capacity.

[n2916s]

Unless you have your heart set on a Ford, you might consider the Nissan Titan XD with the 5.6 liter gas engine. It was initially designed for a Cummins diesel so it has excellent soundproofing, is built like a tank and, since the gas engine is 800 pounds lighter, the typical XD has over 2000# of payload.

I have the diesel version (no longer built) and it has been flawless. Just coming up on 100000 miles and it has never been to the shop for anything other than scheduled maintenance.

[kscherzi]

I suggest the 3.5 Ecoboost. Because its turbocharged it will pull harder than the 5.0 V8, especially in the mountains at altitude.

With little effort one can get a F150 with 1600 to 1800 lbs of payload. Just stay away from the highest, fully loaded trims. My well equipped SuperCrew max tow Lariat has 1670 lbs payload and does fine with our 27FB.

Unless you plan to carry a Harley, your bowling ball and steel vise collection in the bed, plus a large heavy family, a F150 should be fine.

[Slimpockets]

Originally Posted by Slimpockets

I bought my 22’ f150 at Long-Lewis ford in Prattville, Al. Sean was the sales guy 334-781-7146. They would honor the Costco car buying service price. I live in Atlanta but doing the 3 hour drive saved thousands off the sticker price. I have no affiliation with them. Just a satisfied customer.

I should have added what I bought. I have a 2022 f150 crew cab 4x4 with 3.5 EB. It’s in XLT trim because I ordered max payload package and max tow with 36 gal. Tank. The payload is 2500#.

[foobar]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Unless you have your heart set on a Ford, you might consider the Nissan Titan XD with the 5.6 liter gas engine. It was initially designed for a Cummins diesel so it has excellent soundproofing, is built like a tank and, since the gas engine is 800 pounds lighter, the typical XD has over 2000# of payload.

I have the diesel version (no longer built) and it has been flawless. Just coming up on 100000 miles and it has never been to the shop for anything other than scheduled maintenance.

I am intrigued. Thank you for pointing out the titan XD and the higher payload.

Do you have experience towing larger Airstreams with this truck? If so, can you please share the behavior plus pros and cons? Hill climb/descent ability for the Rocky Mountains?

I have a 2022 Globetrotter 27fb twin that will probably be loaded to pretty much the max trailer GVWR = 7600lbs. Tongue weight will be 1000 to 1050lbs.

I would prefer Toyota/Honda/Nissan reliability vs Ford/Chevy, but lack of payload capacity was the challenge.

I am currently towing with a 2016 Porsche Cayenne S. I am at the max limits for the Cayenne payload and axle rating. It is working well for me (performance and stability is excellent), but I eventually need more payload capacity in the tow vehicle.

2400lbs of payload in the titan xd would be adequate. Is that amount of payload available in a reasonable trim level and in 4x4 configuration?

[n2916s]

Originally Posted by foobar

I am intrigued. Thank you for pointing out the titan XD and the higher payload.

Do you have experience towing larger Airstreams with this truck? If so, can you please share the behavior plus pros and cons? Hill climb/descent ability for the Rocky Mountains?

I have a 2022 Globetrotter 27fb twin that will probably be loaded to pretty much the max trailer GVWR = 7600lbs. Tongue weight will be 1000 to 1050lbs.

I would prefer Toyota/Honda/Nissan reliability vs Ford/Chevy, but lack of payload capacity was the challenge.

I am currently towing with a 2016 Porsche Cayenne S. I am at the max limits for the Cayenne payload and axle rating. It is working well for me (performance and stability is excellent), but I eventually need more payload capacity in the tow vehicle.

2400lbs of payload in the titan xd would be adequate. Is that amount of payload available in a reasonable trim level and in 4x4 configuration?

Well, I am a Nissan guy. I towed my previous Airstream (a 1986 31’ Sovereign at about 8000#) just over 80,000 miles with a first generation gas Titan. Only had one mildly expensive repair in 216,000 total miles (replaced cracked OEM exhaust manifolds at about 100k miles). Lots of time in the Rockies and the Sierras with no problems but payload was only 1600#.

Once I passed 200k with that truck, I figured the time was coming when things like the starter, alternator, water pump etc. would start to fail so I started shopping. In 2016, Nissan brought out the Titan XD and at the start the Cummins diesel was the only option. As an admitted fan boy of the brand, I jumped in.

As I noted, the truck has been flawless but, if I had it to do over again, I would buy the gas version. Lots more payload, oil changes don’t cost $100, no replacing an $80 set of fuel filters every 10k miles, gas stations are everywhere and the fuel is way cheaper (even though the gas V8 is notoriously thirsty).

And, I got a great deal as Nissan is terrible at marketing trucks — mine was stickered at just over $51k with the Cummins and I drove it off the lot for $42k tax and tag included.

Go drive one — what do you have to lose?

See you out there!

[SallyForth]

Welcome from neighboring Sarasota and Happy New Year!

When we bought our 2023 International 23FBT with solar package in August we did so because we already owned a 2020 F150 Lariat 2.7 EcoBoost.

We have already camped in a dozen states as far north as Rhode Island. At first I was concerned about the little 2.7 EcoBoost, but very quickly I realized it has the same torque rating as the 5.0 Coyote and the torque kicks in at a lower RPM than the 3.5 Ecoboost.

I just completed a major upgrade to 400ah of Lithium and Victron MultiPlus 3000w inverter/Charger and DC to DC charging.

Very happy camper!

[SallyForth]

Originally Posted by englewoodfl

Truck is the first thing. Most common crew that we saw out west were F150s with a heavy tow package. So I need to start there. Thinking 5.0 (Coyote) which is non-turbo. Thoughts?

If you are thinking a smaller Airstream I would not eliminate the F150 2.7 EcoBoost.

The Fast Lane Truck YouTube channel did a towing comparison of the F150 5.0 vs 2.7 EcoBoost and the testers all agreed the 2.7 EcoBoost was a stronger towing vehicle than the 5.0.

Search for “Ford F-150 V8 vs Turbo Towing MPG Test | If You Want The Best F-150 Fuel Economy Get This Truck” on the Fast Lane Truck YouTube channel.

They found in their test that the 5.0 had slightly better fuel economy but the 2.7 EcoBoost was a much stronger tow vehicle with better torque.

[nancymac]

We had a “temporary” 2018 f150 with 1650 payload we bought so we could pick up a new to us 25 AS. Then, we ordered a fully loaded 2023 F150 lariat from Granger Ford in Iowa, and got it well under MSRP in about 2 months. We looked locally and the one potential we saw they wanted $6k over sticker. We bought a fully loaded Lariat, moon roof, power gold mirrors, 18 speaker sound, 360 camera, max tow… it’s hot 1690 payload (we will do spray in lining and tonneau cover which will take that down 100+), and if your buying new, I would consider Granger. No hassles, great service, and they are a volume dealer. As a matter of fact, they just got a boatload of f150s delivered. They get more vehicles because they sell more vehicles. My son in CO also bought from them. We are in Michigan and it was worth the trip.

[Atwebs]

Uhm...best go into this with a total picture of what you want. The trailer you decide upon with dictate the vehicle you tow with, or the modifications you need to make it work.

Kinda make the decisions together. "This is the trailer we want so we know we need this much vehicle."

[LU86Guppy]

Hi-
Have seen a lot re payload ratings, but little regarding easily enough boosting them via rear suspension modifications. Maybe that’s not a smart option if it’s a brand new truck, and maybe I’m ignorant, but in the olden days we just added a leaf and/or “coil—over” rear shocks. Rides like a lumber wagon without the trailer, but does the trick as far as truck payload and tongue weight- provided the rear axle itself is rated for all of it.
Personally drive a plain Jane 4.3l gasser Chevy standard cab- so not a ton of extra weight to begin with.
I’m surprised not to have seen a lot of folks mentioning how important it is to hit a set of CAT scales every so often just to double check.
Lotsa good info and very intelligent folks on this forum- especially regarding mechanical and towing technology.

[hikingcamera]

Originally Posted by LU86Guppy

Hi-
Have seen a lot re payload ratings, but little regarding easily enough boosting them via rear suspension modifications. Maybe that’s not a smart option if it’s a brand new truck, and maybe I’m ignorant, but in the olden days we just added a leaf and/or “coil—over” rear shocks.

The only way to increase payload is to remove things from the truck. Adding leaf springs may improve performance under heavy loads, but will decrease payload by the weight added. To increase the payload via “upgrades” you’d need a manufacturer to approve and print a new sticker, which is not to my knowledge ever done in today’s consumer vehicle market.

Originally Posted by foobar

It is possible to get an F150 with payload stickers in the 1800 - 2200 range, but you typically need to order one and significant compromises are needed.

I guess it depends on what your compromises are, but we found a very luxurious to us XLT with 302A package off the lot with 1808 payload (w/o the heavy duty payload package). FWIW. If you are only looking at the top of the line, maybe that’s harder, but within the XLT line, not as hard. And we still have a fair number of amenities. And we managed to get it $4500 under MSRP in Dec 2021. Not sure I’d it’s possible to find anything on lots today though.

[englewoodfl]

When we were on Deb's bucket list trip from FL to the Rockies with our older turbo Sprinter I talked to every Airstream owner that I could. Most recommended the F150 with the max package. While EcoBoost are going to have more punch that a normally aspirated engine your wringing out more power from a smaller engine so more maintenance later. Most people recommended the 5.0L and I'm comfortable with that. We're looking at this as a 6-10 year truck. Don't want any of the fluff stuff like a moon roof or skid plates. Interested it 2 wheel vs. 4 wheel thoughts?

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by englewoodfl

When we were on Deb's bucket list trip from FL to the Rockies with our older turbo Sprinter I talked to every Airstream owner that I could. Most recommended the F150 with the max package. While EcoBoost are going to have more punch that a normally aspirated engine your wringing out more power from a smaller engine so more maintenance later. Most people recommended the 5.0L and I'm comfortable with that. We're looking at this as a 6-10 year truck. Don't want any of the fluff stuff like a moon roof or skid plates. Interested it 2 wheel vs. 4 wheel thoughts?

2WD vs. 4WD, always an interesting decision. The last three pick up trucsk I've owned had 4WD. The last one I ordered that way. So 4WD is my choice.

And for me it comes down to the few times when it is needed. Like camping in field of wet grass, or when it is muddy. Or when pulling up a steep incline out of a camping spot. Those times, albeit few, reinforce my decision. And then there is the added benefit of driving in snow or sleet where 4WD is helpful.

Also, 2WD will adversely affect resale value. It seems especially with used truck, few people want a 2WD.

So for me 4WD it is. YMMV!

[englewoodfl]

It'll be 4WD.



4WD involves more initial cost, lower fuel economy and more maintenance down the road but that's what we're going to do. Nothing like getting stuck somewhere with 2WD.

[SallyForth]

Originally Posted by englewoodfl

It'll be 4WD.



4WD involves more initial cost, lower fuel economy and more maintenance down the road but that's what we're going to do. Nothing like getting stuck somewhere with 2WD.

I have 2WD and an electronic locking rear axle. I’ve used the locking rear axle on a few occasions, like on wet grass, and it does help.

Years ago we had a much larger trailer towed by an F350 4WD SRW. In all of the years we had that rig I can only recall engaging 4WD once while towing, to mush through deep sugar sand. So, yes 4WD can be very useful, and yes, it adds weight, lowers fuel economy and can require expensive maintenance.