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Old 12-10-2018, 10:28 AM   #101
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Whenever the words "tax" or "government" come up, it seems that someone has to say taxes are bad, government is bad, blah, blah, but they sure like those smooth roads maintained by healthy workers when they take their trailer out.

Any large, medium or small human organization has problems and makes mistakes. Fixing them instead of complaining is much more helpful.

Let's make sure everyone knows there is a difference between real property taxes and personal property taxes. Colorado has a business personal property tax that many small business evade claiming they don't own anything worth more than the exclusion limit. It is amazing just how quickly everything depreciates. Though the government tries to limit tax evasion, it just isn't worth it to track everyone down. Some states, and SC is apparently one of them, also tax some, non-business personal property. Some tax "luxury goods" either at purchase or for as long as you own it. There are plenty of ways to raise money to pay for good roads as well ashealth insurance for government workers (should they have good health too?).

The questions are not whether there will be taxes, but what kind and who pays plus what are they used for? Taxes on vehicles based on their purchase price (we have that in Colorado and it goes down as the vehicle ages) discourage purchase of new vehicles, but probably by very little. How many people think ahead about the registration or other tax when they see that shiny new car or truck or RV? I'd rather see vehicles taxed on how much damage they do the roads—based on weight, number of axles, whatever. However, that never has raised enough money for highways, so either there have to be taxes based on miles driven (see how rural vehicle owners like that) or on whatever fuel is used, or something else. Here, taxes on gas and diesel aren't enough and various schemes have been used to pay for roads. It still isn't enough. Many crazy schemes are dreamed up to get around various restrictions on taxes and they really don't work well, but any way politicians can avoid the use of the dirty word "tax" seems to be preferred even if the answers don't make a lot of sense.

A reflexive attitude about taxes does not solve the problem—if you want things, we have to pay for them.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:34 PM   #102
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[QUOTE=Gene;2188523]Retiring in your 50's may be necessary when injured in a dangerous job like law enforcement. Many cops endure lousy pay for years—some are making $25,000/year in small towns—can you raise a family on that? Teachers are making close to that in many places. Many working class people have jobs that wear them out and retiring early is a necessity. Raising the retirement age past 65 or 67 acts to penalize working class people the most. And when you reach 80, you may find you need more money than you needed before because of health care—Medicare does not pay for everything and some plans have high deductbles and co-pays people can't affords either. Medicare Advantage is like that and the alternatives a5re Supplemental with its high premiums or paying the 20% Medicare doesn't pay for—end of life care bankrupts people. Assisted living is very expensive and often doesn't provide what people were led to expect. Other advanced societies do much better with.

For the record my comments apply to Cali, where a quick Google search will show you how much CHP makes and costs in retirement. The numbers are staggering. Throw in all other agencies where personnel wear and badge and carry a weapon, do the math. It’s not rocket science. Then look at the UC system and the sheer number of administrators.. then look at city agencies, state workers .. if you care to look, it’s a rabbit hole and a ticking time bomb of debt and obligations that will never be met. This thread was about excessive taxes. Just my opinion! Maybe we can get to the joys of owning a caravan now.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:04 PM   #103
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one assumes you're feeding at the trough too? Maybe not in your state, but in Cali, government jobs, including UC , colleges & cops etc pay extraordinarily well. For many years, the UC didn't even ask employees to contribute toward retirements. City workers & cops were retiring in their 50's ... do the math man, it's a racket and we're all in for a huge wake-up call. Life expectancy is now well into the 80's ... someone who's 80 or 90 simply doesn't need an income that was the same as when they retired in their 50's ... anyway, defend all you like, it's theft from working class folks, who earn less and receive no government funded pension or healthcare for their entire family.
I don't live in California, so no, I'm not feeding at the same trough. I'm assuming your generalizations don't extend to other countries. I'm not saying the problem of early retirement and overly generous pensions isn't a problem, but how do you know that a cop, nurse, teacher or other public employee isn't worth the money they're paid? I wouldn't presume to understand what someone else's public service job is worth. My part of that equation takes place when I vote. It sounds like you're blaming the workers without really understanding what their jobs entail. Is it the workers' fault, or the elected officials who oversee the government for which they work?

My career was in education, and a common problem that teachers face is that the public thinks they know what a teacher's job involves and how much it's worth because pretty much everyone once sat in a classroom. BTW, my pension plan is fully funded, in fact it currently has a surplus. During my career every paycheck had an amount deducted for pension. Sometimes it went up or down as needed to keep the pension healthy. That's a result of proper government pension regulations and responsible pension management, something that may be missing in California.

I think you missed my point about your sister-in-law's "free" health insurance. Health insurance is just a commodity with a price. How much is it worth? Let's say it was worth $10000 per year. Would you feel better if your sister-in-law was making $10000 per year more but paying for her own health insurance? I've had "free" health insurance all of my life, but I pay the taxes necessary to provide that benefit for all Canadians. I also benefit from lower health care costs overall because I live in a country where people decided that they were better off pooling their resources to ensure everyone has health insurance. This has led to lower costs and better outcomes in terms of life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.

When you say "For many years, the UC didn't even ask employees to contribute toward retirements." I don't know what "UC" stands for, but any amount that an employer contributes to a pension plan for employees is part of the compensation that those employees earn for the job they do. The employer could pay more and deduct the pension contributions from the paycheck or the employer could pay less and pay the pension contributions themselves. Either way the pension is only as good as the management team that oversees it.

Perhaps you worked in a business where all of your compensation was in the form of money, but some jobs provide other forms of compensation in addition to money; health insurance, life insurance, pension, transportation, meals, etc. It doesn't mean that those things are free, just that those things are part of the compensation that an employer provides to attract and retain the employees that they require.

Finally (sorry this is so long!) you mention "it's theft from working class folks, who earn less and receive no government funded pension or healthcare for their entire family." I know that those "working class folks" work very hard at what they do. Part of the reason they earn less is that many are in jobs that did not require them to defer their working life for 4 or 5 years to attend university and then pay off the resulting debt. As for health insurance, if those working folk voted for a government that supported universal health insurance they could have government provided health insurance.

I hesitated to write the next bit because it may be taken the wrong way, but people who earn less are often in jobs of less responsibility. If a doctor or nurse doesn't do their job people can die in a short period of time. A good teacher actually improves their students' lives in measurable ways. The students of a good teacher are more likely to attend college or university, will earn more in their lifetime and will therefore pay more in taxes. These benefits can exceed the amount the teacher is paid, and the next year they do it again for another group of students. On average, a person who doesn't graduate from High School doesn't pay enough taxes in their lifetime to cover the benefits they get from the government, so teachers who get their students through to graduation are saving us all money in the long run.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:45 PM   #104
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————-snip for brevity————.



I hesitated to write the next bit because it may be taken the wrong way, but people who earn less are often in jobs of less responsibility. If a doctor or nurse doesn't do their job people can die in a short period of time. A good teacher actually improves their students' lives in measurable ways. The students of a good teacher are more likely to attend college or university, will earn more in their lifetime and will therefore pay more in taxes. These benefits can exceed the amount the teacher is paid, and the next year they do it again for another group of students. On average, a person who doesn't graduate from High School doesn't pay enough taxes in their lifetime to cover the benefits they get from the government, so teachers who get their students through to graduation are saving us all money in the long run.

Absolutely correct in my opinion. My wife and I have spent a lot of time and money on education for ourselves and our kids. We all remember and cherish the teachers that have inspired and challenged us. Sadly, we also remember the people that were supposed to educate and were just “phoning it in” as it were. A good teacher does not just teach. They challenge, open eyes to the world, and encourage their students. The world needs more teachers like that.

Also note that teaching can come from other sources. I was heavily influenced by several folks that thought me important concepts over the years. They did not claim to be a teacher, but they taught, mentored, or guided me over rough spots. These “accidental teachers” are every bit as important in our lives.

Not to brag, but this family is highly educated, pays a lot of taxes, and needs little in return. IMHO, that’s the way life should be...
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:54 PM   #105
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I went to a different tax office today where they were actually nice. She explained that if my AI were classified as a second home, I would not have vehicle tags to drive it, so it remains personal property taxed each year. Then I asked about depreciation and they do not depreciate it or look up any type of book value. They go by original bill of sale. I was told if the taxes should be lower due to depreciation, I would have to prove that every year by going to camping world or another dealer and get a written, signed, and dated appraisal and bring it in every year to appeal tax value. Even though I have added 10K miles, I just did major mods that I assume increase its value, so I won't do that this year. And, yes, I consider myself very fortunate to own this vehicle, so I wrote them the check. No more tax complaints from me. I don't mind paying taxes, I just don't want to pay more than I rightfully owe.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:46 PM   #106
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DavidsonOverlander…. YOU SAID IT! Excellent Post!

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I went to a different tax office today where they were actually nice. She explained that if my AI were classified as a second home, I would not have vehicle tags to drive it, so it remains personal property taxed each year. Then I asked about depreciation and they do not depreciate it or look up any type of book value. They go by original bill of sale. I was told if the taxes should be lower due to depreciation, I would have to prove that every year by going to camping world or another dealer and get a written, signed, and dated appraisal and bring it in every year to appeal tax value. Even though I have added 10K miles, I just did major mods that I assume increase its value, so I won't do that this year. And, yes, I consider myself very fortunate to own this vehicle, so I wrote them the check. No more tax complaints from me. I don't mind paying taxes, I just don't want to pay more than I rightfully owe.
That tax office clerk made your point FOR YOU when she pointed out your Airstream required vehicle tags. Do they value your car at it's "purchase price"?? or do they recognize it has depreciation? Also, if your Airstream is a vehicle...then WHY does it pay anything in taxes OTHER THAN it's license-plates (similar to your other vehicles?)
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Old 12-14-2018, 06:14 PM   #107
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Edistobob,

That’s a whole new thread!

I still get that where you from look or question sometimes when my Buckeye roots are showing.

Ohio sweet corn is some of the finest but never ever saw boiled peanuts or shrimp n grits in Ohio.

But I do cringe when the bill for a new tag for the AS shows up in the mail.

Gary
Gary,
You too can get the discount. Just take your bill in and claim the 2nd home. No big deal. You do have to show up every year.
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Old 12-14-2018, 07:42 PM   #108
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DavidsonOverlander…. YOU SAID IT! Excellent Post!

That tax office clerk made your point FOR YOU when she pointed out your Airstream required vehicle tags. Do they value your car at it's "purchase price"?? or do they recognize it has depreciation? Also, if your Airstream is a vehicle...then WHY does it pay anything in taxes OTHER THAN it's license-plates (similar to your other vehicles?)
BOXITE - depends on the state. Here in Nevada, an rv or ANY vehicle pays registration + taxed (a personal property tax). It not based on purchase price, its based on MSRP which is depreciated every year since it's manufacture date. So it takes many years for an AI that is over $180,000 msrp to dwindle down the tax to bare minimum, regardless of how many owners it has had. If my unit had been resold after I bought it new to 10 different subsequent owners in its first year, each 10 owners would've had to pay over $3,000 tax to get it registered.
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Old 12-15-2018, 04:53 PM   #109
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BOXITE - depends on the state. Here in Nevada, an rv or ANY vehicle pays registration + taxed (a personal property tax). It not based on purchase price, its based on MSRP which is depreciated every year since it's manufacture date. So it takes many years for an AI that is over $180,000 msrp to dwindle down the tax to bare minimum, regardless of how many owners it has had. If my unit had been resold after I bought it new to 10 different subsequent owners in its first year, each 10 owners would've had to pay over $3,000 tax to get it registered.
Yes, Alex. That was what I also said waay back when I wrote about apples vs oranges. But this most recent post was directed at the S.C. owner who was given the stoopid reply from the tax clerk (which is so easily contradicted.)
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:50 PM   #110
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I was born and raised in Texas, so I understand your argument, but this South Carolina. If you think "Texas is a whole nother country" you are wrong. I thought I grew up in the South, I was wrong. The South is "a whole nother country"
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:10 PM   #111
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I was born and raised in Texas, so I understand your argument, but this South Carolina. If you think "Texas is a whole nother country" you are wrong. I thought I grew up in the South, I was wrong. The South is "a whole nother country"
MANSDERM161 - Here's excerpt from one of the standups who always cracks me up (I see his live show whenever he's in Vegas)
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Old 12-17-2018, 08:33 PM   #112
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Even though in some states an RV is a vehicle subject to personal property tax, for federal income tax purposes, it can be a second home and loan interest is deductible as for any home. To add to the confusion, the state may use federal tax law to determine taxable income for that state's income tax. The result is paying a personal property tax for the vehicle and then getting a deduction for loan interest.

Many states have personal property taxes. Some are only for business personal property and some apply to everyone. Colorado registration for vehicles is partly license fees, partly a surtax for roads and bridges, partly a tax from the idea of a personal property tax lowered every year by a mystery formula. I think my 11-year-old Tundra is now down to $3 for the tax, but other fees bring it up to about $70. Our gas tax has not been increased in about 25 years and other taxes and fees aren't enough to maintain our roads. Most money for roads is spend on the Front Range because they have most of the people and they vote it for themselves. It is expensive to build roads in mountains and with lots of snow, hard to maintain them. Low taxes and bad roads go together. Everybody pays anyway with damaged vehicles and too many alignments.
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Old 12-26-2018, 08:00 AM   #113
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....... Low taxes and bad roads go together. ....
AMEN! LooeasyAna proves that!
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:22 AM   #114
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Curious if anyone has feedback on AI property tax in SC. I paid $1800 last year for new Airstream Interstate. Was told it would not be classified as second home unless I took tires off and put it up on blocks! Just got new tax bill...$1780. I was expecting a little more depreciation than that!
It is true in SC. I live in Greenville county and taxed to death. We traded last year for a new Globe Trotter. First I had to pay $500 sales tax then pay $2300 in property tax before I could get a tag. Wonder if it is worth it. I would like to get a residency in a state with lower or no property tax.
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:28 AM   #115
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It is true in SC. I live in Greenville county and taxed to death. We traded last year for a new Globe Trotter. First I had to pay $500 sales tax then pay $2300 in property tax before I could get a tag. Wonder if it is worth it. I would like to get a residency in a state with lower or no property tax.
I grew up in Texas and then lived in Ohio. I feel like they tax you one way or another. States with high taxes in one area have lower taxes in another. So I just paid my SC property tax. The one thing they told me is that they won't depreciate it as an RV....which surprised me. She said I would have to get a "certified" appraisal like at a dealer or camping world and dispute the tax each year if I think its depreciating to lower my tax.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:21 AM   #116
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It is true in SC. I live in Greenville county and taxed to death. We traded last year for a new Globe Trotter. First I had to pay $500 sales tax then pay $2300 in property tax before I could get a tag. Wonder if it is worth it. I would like to get a residency in a state with lower or no property tax.
Is the $2300 property tax every year? That’s how they do it here in Missouri. Really penalizes you for owning new items, as the tax is supposed to decrease annually.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:34 AM   #117
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Yes, in South Carolina it is every year
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:54 PM   #118
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People work through organizations such as Escapees to register their vehicles out of state (except if that state is Texas where Escapees is located) and pay less in fees, get their mail sent to them wherever they are and use other benefits of the organization. This works well for full-timers but others use it too. In Colorado you have to get a Colorado plate (and driver's license) if you are here for 30 days or more, but people push it until a neighbor calls the authorities. Of course, if you are in a rural area where no one sees your plate, you might get away with it. Escapees is for people who travel full-time or nearly so, but others use it to avoid taxes and fees. Sometimes people register their vehicles at a friends home out of state—again, sometimes they get caught, sometimes not.

As for taxes, Colorado has a state flat income tax—millionaires pay the same rate as the poor. Some people pay a lot more in Colorado income tax than they do in federal income tax. Taxes are generally low here and the personal property tax does not apply to RV's. Low taxes means poor support for public education, the present teachers' strike in Denver and deteriorating roads plus a lot more. If you want services, you have to pay for them. The tax may be unfair to certain individuals, but that is another story. I would think SC would allow for depreciation of personal property for the purposes of that tax—if you keep a business computer for 20 years, can't you depreciate it every year for tax reasons? Why not an RV?
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:48 PM   #119
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I would think SC would allow for depreciation of personal property for the purposes of that tax—if you keep a business computer for 20 years, can't you depreciate it every year for tax reasons? Why not an RV?
GENE - I agree. I do not recall if OP indicated the tax in SC depreciates, but I would hope it does. Here in NV, we get hit with steep personal property taxes on new cars, rvs, etc. And they base it on MSRP, not on the discounted price one pays. Since we do not have state income tax, that's how they get the $$

My oldest daugther lives in your neck of the woods (Fruitvale area) and I even contemplated buying a small house there. These taxation % do factor in to the decisions. BTW, love the area, especially up in Palisade. My son-in-law brought us to a friend of theirs who owns/runs Suncrest Orchard Alpacas & Fiber Works. Wouldn't mind having an alpaca farm
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:34 PM   #120
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Alex,

Palisade is cool, but downtown is somewhat constrained in size and people have had their stores forced out by new and greedy landlords. Nice town though, but where we live is 5-10˚ cooler in the summer. Not sure about alpacas as a money thing—wasn't that one of those fads to make easy money several years ago?
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