While this was quite true in the past, it's no longer valid for every make.
With the 2020 redesign, GM specifies a higher GVWR for Duramax versions to compensate for the larger mass of that engine, which negates the payload penalty for choosing the oil burner.
Thanks. That’s good to know and makes sense. I wonder if the increase in GVWR makes it essentially a 1 ton truck😀
We did a lot of research on the AS we want to buy and then started looking for the truck. Based on pay loads and tow weight, none of the new ASs really require the benefits of a diesel drive train. Especially when you calculate the cost of diesel and additional maintenance and then DEF. Further calculate the cost of fuel vs the fuel savings of diesel, it could take six decades to pay back the diesel. Some will say resale is a big advantage of diesel but I really don't care what my kids get for my truck when I am done with it one way or the other.
With all that, we went gas, 2500 Dodge Ram Longhorn with a 4:10 differential.
I am knowledgeable on the benefits as I manage the maintenance of a military ship with seven diesel engines...but then I preferred steam propulsion from my Navy days.
You are correct in that a diesel isn’t required for an AS; nor can one cost justify it. However, it’s is nice to have when pulling a load in the mountains or accelerating up an uphill entrance ramp with a 28’ trailer in tow😀. It just a matter of preference. Just like an International over a Flying Cloud.
Thanks. That’s good to know and makes sense. I wonder if the increase in GVWR makes it essentially a 1 ton truck😀
Even more so.
A fully-loaded GMC Sierra 2500HD Denali Duramax has a payload rating of more than 3000 lbs. My 3500HD AT4 payload rating is 3839lbs, and I have every option except gooseneck prep.
Had I paid attention to payload ratings, I would have ordered a 2500HD instead.
Notice that Nissan stopped building their pickup trucks with the Cummins V8 as there were too many issues. They planed to call it a heavy half ton but the actual numbers were even less than some other brands ½ ton units.
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WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
Based on pay loads and tow weight, none of the new ASs really require the benefits of a diesel drive train.
You are right if payload and hauling is what is of interest to you. Wally Byam promoted the Airstream on the basis that it could be pulled by a car, or even a bike! (see promotional photo). And as long as you stay on level roads, pretty well anything can tow an Airstream.
But in real life you may end up with grades like the ones shown below, which is from a road in the beautiful Charlevoix region of Quebec (recognized as a UNESCO biosphere reserve where the Laurentian mountains meet the St-Lawrence River).
The inherent engine braking nature of the diesel engines that one finds in 3/4 ton trucks make driving in these conditions a lot more pleasant and safe -- they are an antidote to white knuckle driving.
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2016 International Signature CCD, RBQ, Dual A/C, 28'
2018 GMC Sierra SLE 2500HD, 4x4, Crew Cab, Duramax Diesel, Leer cap
Lift kit, 16" wheels, Michelin Agilis CC LT
DIY Solar: 500W Renogy panels, AM Solar hdw, Blue Sky MPPT controller, 470ah Rolls battery bank, 2000W Renogy inverter.
While it is accurate that Wally Byam was an advocate for using a passenger car as a tow vehicle, remember that the passenger cars in the 50's & 60's were of body on frame construction, just like today's trucks. Unit body or unibody vehicles today are vastly different from the old cars. You will also see many photos of Wally's caravans showing International Travelall trucks, the forerunner of Suburbans and SUV's. My first tow vehicle was a 1993 Travelall with an AMC 390 cu. in V-8, a Chrysler Torqueflyte transmission, and a mixture of other parts from different sources. Finding correct replacement parts was always a challenge. My Travelall was a better TV for my 23 ft. Prowler than a '88 Chevy Suburban with the 350 GM V-8 I had later.
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John Green, Hillsboro, TX
2007 34' Classic LTD S/O
2011 Dodge RAM 3500/Cummins power
WBCCI #4432 & ARC member W9CJX
You will also see many photos of Wally's caravans showing International Travelall trucks, the forerunner of Suburbans and SUV's. My first tow vehicle was a 1993 Travelall with an AMC 390 cu. in V-8, a Chrysler Torqueflyte transmission, and a mixture of other parts from different sources.
Memories... my dad worked for International and our family "car" was a Travelall, way more practical than the station wagons of the day! (but we didn't have the Airstream). Lee Iaccoca didn't need to look too far for inspiration for the family van.
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2016 International Signature CCD, RBQ, Dual A/C, 28'
2018 GMC Sierra SLE 2500HD, 4x4, Crew Cab, Duramax Diesel, Leer cap
Lift kit, 16" wheels, Michelin Agilis CC LT
DIY Solar: 500W Renogy panels, AM Solar hdw, Blue Sky MPPT controller, 470ah Rolls battery bank, 2000W Renogy inverter.
I have a 2018 Dodge Ram 3500 with a high-output engine diesel with the ASN transmission and I've heard a lot of reports about problems with them shifts hard from 1st to 2nd especially when pulling the dealer doesn't seem to know what to do with it or how to fix it but otherwise I love the truck I wouldn't by any other truck
Love my 2015 Ram 3500 with Cummins and 6 speed manual transmission.
BUT...
It *did* leave me on the side of I-81 for several days while towing last Spring when the DEF pump failed. It was still covered under warranty, but I couldn't get any dealer in the Harrisburg, PA area to service the truck within a two week period. Ended up towing it on a friend's flatbed 300 miles home to get it fixed. The whole DEF system is a huge Achilles Heel for *all* diesels today. My 2015 does not run as well as my 2001 Dodge/Cummins did, IMHO; and the arbitrary 150 mile disablement built into the software is criminally negligent - and guaranteed to leave you stranded in Timbuktu.
Not much I can legally do to fix this issue; but if I were to go out and buy a new Ram tomorrow, sadly, I would go with the Hemi gasser... :-(
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"Hot meals, cold beer, dry bed & flush toilet - everything I look for in a wilderness experience..."
You are right if payload and hauling is what is of interest to you. Wally Byam promoted the Airstream on the basis that it could be pulled by a car, or even a bike! (see promotional photo). And as long as you stay on level roads, pretty well anything can tow an Airstream.
But in real life you may end up with grades like the ones shown below, which is from a road in the beautiful Charlevoix region of Quebec (recognized as a UNESCO biosphere reserve where the Laurentian mountains meet the St-Lawrence River).
The inherent engine braking nature of the diesel engines that one finds in 3/4 ton trucks make driving in these conditions a lot more pleasant and safe -- they are an antidote to white knuckle driving.
This is the salient point to this debate and very well stated.
After making the move up from a 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton RAM turbo-Diesel, I assure you in the context raised by Hermès, the confidence instilled by having your trailer hitched to the more stable platform far surpasses the few extra MPG you may gain with a smaller TV.
I have read all the positive points for RAM and GMC/Chevy 2500HD trucks.
Thanks for any information related to these issues you can share.
Go with Cummins the strength of the straight 6 design is legendary. It is the most abused engine of all engines in truck pulls simply because it can take it! V8 ‘s seem like they don’t like the torque of a diesel. The new Cummins has more torque than the much larger power stroke Ford. Transmission wise I think they are comparably the same unless you can get a manual shift which is equally as tough.
Go with Cummins the strength of the straight 6 design is legendary. It is the most abused engine of all engines in truck pulls simply because it can take it! V8 ‘s seem like they don’t like the torque of a diesel. The new Cummins has more torque than the much larger power stroke Ford. Transmission wise I think they are comparably the same unless you can get a manual shift which is equally as tough.
You are right about the inherent strength of inline 6 motors. For example the Ford 5.0 inline six was legendary for longevity. Jeeps 4.0 inline six has an amazing reputation for low end torque and longevity. Toyota even put a inline 6 in their Supra way back when.
Unfortunately I would have to disagree with you about everything else wrapped around the engine. The motor is the only thing Cummins in this truck. Rest is Fiat. 2500 transmission. Electronics, engineering. Etc.
I hear lots of good stuff about this truck. So much that I bought one. Unfortunately mine was junk. Another friend who bought the last year before dif has continual problems as well.
Go with Cummins the strength of the straight 6 design is legendary. It is the most abused engine of all engines in truck pulls simply because it can take it! V8 ‘s seem like they don’t like the torque of a diesel. The new Cummins has more torque than the much larger power stroke Ford. Transmission wise I think they are comparably the same unless you can get a manual shift which is equally as tough.
The "new Cummins" is a 6.7-liter inline 6. The "much larger (?) power stroke (sic)" is a 6.7-liter V8. While Cummins inline 6s are legendary and excellent, it detracts from your point when you say random untrue things to make the point.
2021 RAM 2500 w/ the 6.7 Cummins makes a ton of torque at 850 lb-ft (per RAM website)
2021 Ram 3500 w/ the optional HO 6.7 Cummins makes a prodigious 1000 lb-ft of torque.
2021 F250 Superduty w/ the 6.7 Powerstroke makes an even more excessive 1050 lb-ft of torque. (Per Ford's website)
Pick your flavor, none of them will have any difficulty towing any Airstream over any paved mountain road, but there's no "much larger" Powerstroke and no particular power advantage either way.
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— David
Zero Gravitas — 2017 Flying Cloud 26U | WBCCI# 15566
He has all of the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. — Sir Winston Churchill
The "new Cummins" is a 6.7-liter inline 6. The "much larger (?) power stroke (sic)" is a 6.7-liter V8. While Cummins inline 6s are legendary and excellent, it detracts from your point when you say random untrue things to make the point.
2021 RAM 2500 w/ the 6.7 Cummins makes a ton of torque at 850 lb-ft (per RAM website)
2021 Ram 3500 w/ the optional HO 6.7 Cummins makes a prodigious 1000 lb-ft of torque.
2021 F250 Superduty w/ the 6.7 Powerstroke makes an even more excessive 1050 lb-ft of torque. (Per Ford's website)
Pick your flavor, none of them will have any difficulty towing any Airstream over any paved mountain road, but there's no "much larger" Powerstroke and no particular power advantage either way.
Loved my 6.7 Cummins. Then I got my 6.7 Ford. Wow. That’s all I’m gonna say.
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