1962 Ambassador Restoration – One Bite at a Time

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by 57Vintage

That trim piece was probably pretty soft (pliable) when first installed, to make it easy to conform to the curve. I'll assume it started as a 90 degree angle. The completion of that 180 bend would have work hardened the bend and made your efforts to straighten very difficult.

Educated guess from trying to make some pieces during my project .

The front flange bent up and back down pretty easily on my '62, so it is still pretty pliable, even around the curved section. I would worry about doing that too many times though, as the trim work hardens each time it is bent back and forth. Where the 90 degree bend was made at the tub corner, I can't remember if the front flange was continuous or if they cut a notch out of the front flange so each section could be bent down (or up) independently.

[dbj216]

Greetings steinVT: I found your project thread #2. I thought I could pollute your thread since you didn't want to.

I think your 62 Ambassador will be a great fun project, especially for a guy as capable as you are. I almost purchased a late 50s Overlander as my first vintage Airstream project. It was in decent shape, but I didn't like the single axle under such a long trailer. It just looked like it would be a swaying baby in a cross wind. So I passed.

Carry on and I will try not to give too much stupid advice.

David

[mrdes8]

Congrats on your new project! I just wrapped on a '61 Ambassador so boy that all looks familiar. I had to do a fair amount of frame repair/fabrication,still may have some items around. Don't think I reused anything on the interior except the roof vents. Most amazing was every piece of insulation I took out looked brand new, never seen anything like it in 5 other Airstreams.
Looking forward to watching your progress...
Mark D

[steinVT]

David, you are always welcome here. I have gotten so many hints and ideas from you over the years that I look forward to more.

Mark D. I am very interested in your '61 project. I would love to see pictures of the process and especially the finished product. Wow, five Airstreams, that's a serious case of Aluminitus - Mark S.
(Takes me back to 2nd grade, I was Mark S. then too, because there was a Mark B.)

[mrdes8]

Hi, going to attach a few pics, closed the deal on this trailer Super Bowl sunday 2015 and brought it home the following weekend. Recovery trip of about 12 miles (which is why I looked at it in the first place). Front crossmember under the front window was gone, could see the road. Replace 4 outriggers at steps (have another set of custom outriggers if yours are bad). Replaced 5 of 7 sheets of the subfloor. Much, much more. I would think you have a 4" rolled channel steel frame, there is actually a web at the corners.
Here are some pics, lots more to talk about, I know you know whats ahead so dive on in...
Mark D
( I was recently in a group that out of 20 people had four Marks, last guy in said "just call me Hank")

[Cheoah]

Hey Mark, yer killin it! Do you still need requested measurements?

I’m in a position to do that now if you need that measurement from rear wall to bunk bulkhead. Covid has put the brakes on my continuous work travel. Great to be home some, so we’re working on the ambassador. Among (many) other things since it is spring.

You don’t have axle specs do you? Would like to start towing, want to be proactive w them, though they towed fine from Alabama.

cheers!

C.

[steinVT]

Cheoah, thanks. We are still a ways from spring here in the North country, but I do what I can between the rain and snow.

I still don't have that measurement and would appreciate it. We are trying to decide the future layout and are thinking we might skip the rear closets. Knowing the dimension from the rear window to the gally/bedroom wall would be great.

I will be ordering my new axles from Colin Hyde Restorations later today. Should take about 4 weeks. Apparently axle manufacturing is a essential business. Works for me. Colin knows the Ambassador well, I think he has a '59 or '60. - Mark

[Scott S]

I wanted to say thanks as I hope to do or have done a frame replacement on my 1960 Overlander. The tub looks the same with the exception of the color...mine is pink. Your pictures and explanation on tub removal will be extremely helpful!

[steinVT]

There are some options that came with the trailer that might have some value. I thought I might see what you guys think.

The first is the CB radio antenna. I believe it was a factory option because of the grease pencil markings inside the wall. It looks kind of cool, but I don't plan on adding a CB. Any worth using as an antenna for FM?


The second is the weight transfer hitch. I think I have all the parts and they probably would clean up OK. It's just steel. Has the technology changed much in hitches?


The last was the TV antenna. I thought I might add a directional cell booster antenna to it, but alas, the gear was so corroded to the shaft it snapped as I was pulling it off. Not sure where I might find another. - Mark

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by steinVT

The first is the CB radio antenna. I believe it was a factory option because of the grease pencil markings inside the wall. It looks kind of cool, but I don't plan on adding a CB. Any worth using as an antenna for FM?

That may have been originally provided as a CB antenna, but it is also likely that it was provided as an external AM and Short Wave antenna. Wally used "transoceanic" radios in his Airstreams during his international caravans and used these external antennas to get additional listening range for the Voice or America, etc. That antenna will probably NOT work well for FM because most passive FM antennas (at least the old passive FM antennas on cars) were tuned to be one quarter wavelength long (their most efficient length) in the center of the FM radio band, so they are about 30 or so inches long. A longer antenna may produce a much worse FM signal. A longer antenna will produce a better AM signal however.

Originally Posted by steinVT

The second is the weight transfer hitch. I think I have all the parts and they probably would clean up OK. It's just steel. Has the technology changed much in hitches?

That Reese "Dual Cam" hitch was original on my 1962 Safari and I use the exact same hitch on my 2016 30' Classic. Set up right it will still do the job of both weight distribution and sway control. That style, however is out of production, though I got an NOS one for the Classic. Reese's modern "Straight Line" hitch works on the same basic principal, but requires drilling holes to be bolted to the frame rather then using U-bolts to clamp over the frame as in the original "Dual Cam".

[steinVT]

Thanks Joe, I will clean up the hitch and loose the antenna. I think I owe you a beer, just saved me from buying a new hitch - Mark

[steinVT]

Things do go easier the second time around. Had to buy some lumber this time to build the gantries. Four 12' 4"x 4" pressure treated timbers for the main legs. Otherwise much of the lumber, the chain hoists and exact design came from the my previous project. They were built on the ground and tipped up.


Here they are up, but not yet positioned over the roof vents.


I added two stabilizing cross beams out of 3/4" plywood and another piece of plywood to stabilize the door.


Hadn't really thought about it before, but the distance between the vents is much larger on the Ambassador than on the Safari, (about 6' .). Ended up joining two 2"x 6"s to get the needed length. I got a little nervous with the long 2" x 6" so I reinforced the lifting ends with additional 2" x 6" pieces so they each picked up at least three ribs.



Anyone who has pulled a shell, knows there are a lot of rivets to remove. The VTS Rivet Removal Tool earned its keep. In the past I would completely remove the rivet with the tool. This time I used it just to drill a starter hole and then used a standard bit to finish it off. It also helps to have some good help.


There are four rivets, on the four corners, that were very sneaky. They could not be seen from the outside and you actually had to remove three rivets from the end cap / side wall to get access. - Mark

[steinVT]

Finally we got a day with low wind, so we hooked up the tractor and drilled out the remaining rivets. Applying light pressure with the winches, I used a 2" x 4" as a lever to start the separation. After finding the required 6 or so forgotten rivets the shell came free. I just then stood inside the trailer and worked the winches and Lynne drove the tractor.


Ten minutes later it was out.


And twenty minutes after that it was on the ground and secured. The shell is held down by two ratchet straps attached to the gantries. Notice the additional concrete blocks on the legs of the gantries. The next day was quite high wind and I went into the shell. Although you could hear it shift some, it didn't appear to be in any danger of a second lift off - Mark

[steinVT]

After getting the shell off, I started working on the chassis. I was dying to know if I had to build another frame. So I dropped the belly pan. It isn't worth anything except for scrap and as templates for the replacement. It is interesting to compare the construction techniques from '56 to '62. A lot has changed. The main frame rails are no longer 2" x 4" box beams, they are instead a thick wall C channel of structural steel. Water can't get trapped and rot from the inside.

Overall the frame looks very good. The only out rigger I may replace was one that was cut to allow waste pipe passage. I will have to replace the front and rear cross members, otherwise it's just clean and protect.

Here is a picture of the insulation from within the belly pan. Not doing much insulating. I will replace it with hard foam like in the Safari.


The floor was surprising good as well. At one point I thought about just repairing the couple of soft spots, but I want to coat all the floor prior to installation and it has that old trailer smell. This is a picture of the bathroom area.


Like I said, there was a lot of interior wall corrosion. From letters and postcards found in the trailer, I think it might have had a stint on the beach in Florida. Wonder if the salt contributed. Just glad it stayed away from the frame. Here is a picture of a screw? that I removed from the entryway threshold. - Mark

[Bubba L]

Congratulations on a successful lift off. Now the thinking cap is on and the fun begins. Good luck and keep us posted.

[safari62]

Hi Mark
Nice job.
I’m keeping this short as Airforums keeps timing me out. Lost last reply of great detail which is probably a good thing for you.

On corrosion I have been told use air blaster with a gentle medium like baking soda...as corrosion with continue I presume. Also cause is most likely mouse and creature urine which also means remove odor.

Also our 1962 is loaded with EXPLODING rivets. Do you have any rivets with hole in stem side?
That’s it for now ...don’t want to lose this reply .

[dbj216]

Excellent report on the body removal process you developed. Lots of folks cuss the hidden and forgotten rivets when they lift the shell and the frame comes with it.

It sounds like your old Ambassador is in good condition. I'm surprised the subfoor looks that good. I think 62 was the first year of the dura-torque axles, and maybe the frame rail design change was part of that major upgrade over leaf springs.

So you turned a corner from disassembly and assessment to "let the renovation begin". Or maybe restoration like you did on your Safari.

David

[steinVT]

Originally Posted by safari62

On corrosion I have been told use air blaster with a gentle medium like baking soda...as corrosion with continue I presume. Also cause is most likely mouse and creature urine which also means remove odor.

Also our 1962 is loaded with EXPLODING rivets. Do you have any rivets with hole in stem side?

Hi Gary, I have been told that as well. That was the case on the Safari which was loaded with mouse trails and specific corrosion spots on those trails. In this case I think it may be "poultice" corrosion.

This is from Corrosionpedia :

water is trapped by debris and dust, thus becoming acidic. The acidic solution is called aluminum hydroxide, which perforates the window frame. This leaves white deposits on the bare and unprotected surface of the metal. The retention of moisture makes the corrosion continue, even when surfaces are dry. Salts cause serious aggravation due to wet-dry cycling as well as accumulation.

It is quite easy to identify aluminum corrosion, as the product is white and more voluminous. It starts by the surface becoming rough, as well as etches and pits becoming more evident. The protective layer that forms shields the interior metal from corroding, but when removed, corrosion can become more vigorous.

When an acidic medium attacks metal, a basic solution should be applied to neutralize the effect.

In this case, I think it was the fiberglass that held the moisture against the wall. And time near the ocean may have made it just that much worse. The areas of corrosion are just too big to blame on mice.

Here are some examples.


My plan of action will be to wash it down with a baking soda solution, hit it with a rotating wire brush, coat the worst of it with POR15 and then fix the leaks. Since it's the inside skin, I don't think I need to mess with soda blasting.

The worst areas are under the windows, so I am thinking that would be a good place to start. This has the Hehr Hall-Mark 12 windows, with the double sided tape. Not a big fan, I really liked the simplicity of the old Hehr standards. I think there may be a lot of broken glass in my future.

I have noticed some what I thought were hollow stem bucked rivets. Not sure what an exploding rivet is? - Mark

[steinVT]

Originally Posted by dbj216

It sounds like your old Ambassador is in good condition. I'm surprised the subfoor looks that good.

Well David, I may have spoken too soon. When I removed the floor, I realized just how soft it was. Some of the sections popped off easily. Others I had to work for. To remove the solid sections I found that using a 2" hole saw chucked in a 1/2" drill worked very well. Start the hole just off the elevator bolts head. You don't even have to go all the way through so no damage to the frame steel.


After I removed the C-channel, but before I removed the floor, I did two other things that should help in the future.

First, I made a full size template of the floor out of the paper used to protect floors during construction. During rebuild, I can secure the plywood floor, transfer the template and do the final profile cuts installed on the trailer. Then I can just cut 1 1/2" off all the way around and use it as a template to cut the Marmuleum flooring.

The second thing I did was run a measuring tape all around the perimeter so that I can double check the fit during assembly. I did that on the Safari and the replacement floor was off 1/2" over 41'. You wouldn't think that would have been a problem, but it was 1/2" too big and it was a PIA to fix with the shell swinging in the air.


Once the floor was off, I found I will have some more work to do. I will have to replace two cross members, repair 5 others, replace one out rigger, repair four others and completely rebuild the steps. The main frame rails are fine so it could have been worse. - Mark

[safari62]

Hi Mark
That’s some good info on the corrosion. I sent my thread on exploding rivets via email. (Mystery of the Exploding Rivets) lots of interesting advice.