Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-06-2022, 11:02 PM   #141
2 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
Swannanoa , North Carolina
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 20
Models

Mark those are really cool models, helpful for me visualizing concepts my wife and I have discussed. We came to the same conclusion and for virtually the same reason(s). The mid-ship berth and rear bath is the most practical. We don’t think that arrangement will impair any of our adventures 😂

Is that a mini split on the tongue or storage?

I’ve considered building one of those convertible dinettes like I’ve seen on sailboats. In place of gaucho. Table drops down to serve as a base for a filler cushion, making a double of some sort.

Love the huge drawer idea. Install a garage door opener, and voilà!
Cheoah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2022, 11:11 PM   #142
2 Rivet Member
 
1962 28' Ambassador
Swannanoa , North Carolina
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 20
Wheels!

Oh, and I love the wheels! Is that a thing? Like factory? I don’t know if I care about factory, I like the look of those wheels with white walls! More so than a polished aluminum hub cap. I ain’t polishing mine to a mirror, so a polished hubcap would be out of place.
Cheoah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 04:54 AM   #143
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Hi David, I've been following your polishing career and I admire your diligence. Turned out great. I don't usually pay for help, but in this case I might. I do hate polishing.

Hadn't really even considered the twin bed rear. That is what the Safari is as well. You had me thinking for a minute, but then I remembered I'm not a big fan of the lopped off mattress corners, so drive on.

Bubba and Cheoah, good catch on the mini-split. I am proceeding with my plan to make this an all electric trailer with no LP. I will spell out my plans in future posts. I think I have worked out all the bugs, we will just have to see what you experts say.

Cheoah, the wheels are just a premade sub model that I pulled from a model library. I do agree that the look is cool. The Safari has white wall tires which I got from VTS. Not sure what I am going to do with the Ambassador. - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 07:05 AM   #144
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Plumbing Design

So let's start with the tanks and plumbing. That's a piece I am most comfortable with.

My design goals;
  • Compared to the Safari, I wanted to double both my fresh water and grey water capacity.
  • We are going with a composting toilet, so no black tank required
  • Hot water without propane, it better be efficient
  • Protect the tanks from cold weather, we live in Vermont after all
  • Design to minimize the changes to tongue weight as water moves from fresh to grey

If you remember, the Ambassador only came with a single underfloor fiberglass black tank, directly under the toilet. It is history and was removed. Also remember, my chassis and floor are complete without any belly pan tanks. Like the Safari, everything will be installed above the floor. Check, the cold weather goal.

Here is my plan for capacity and weight balance. Essentially break both tanks into two. Position each half on the diagonal around the centerline of the trailer and the center between the axles. Connect each half together so they will basically empty and fill together. Then as the water is pumped out of the fresh tank into the grey, there should be zero weight shift.

In the figure below the two white rectangles next to the wheel wells are the fresh and the dark grey the grey tanks. I am thinking about using 1" PEX to connect the fresh and 1 1/2" ABS to connect the greys. All the tank connections will be at the rear of the tanks, so there shouldn't be any water movement during acceleration or braking.
Click image for larger version

Name:	TankLayout.JPG
Views:	45
Size:	66.5 KB
ID:	415643

The freshwater cold side will be fairly typical except I want to add a large accumulator. I have the small RV style accumulator on the Safari, but I really don't think it does much, just too small. What I would like to add is one about 5 gallons that should really cut back on pump cycling. A couple of examples are below.

Name:   Accumulator.JPG
Views: 179
Size:  12.1 KB
Click image for larger version

Name:	RO accumulator2.JPG
Views:	48
Size:	30.9 KB
ID:	415644

On the hot water side, I want to add a hot water recirculation system. It hurts me to let turn fresh water into grey just waiting for the cold water to turn hot. What I would image is this; when it's time to wash dishes or take a shower, you would first turn on the recirculation pump. Let it run a minute and you should have instant hot water, no waste. To implement add a pump directly out of the hot water tank and run a loop, going by all the fixtures ending in a Tee at the cold water port of the water heater. Done with the hot water, turn the circulator off. I think I will add pipe insulation to the loop to keep the heat loss to a minimum.
Click image for larger version

Name:	BathPlumbing.JPG
Views:	50
Size:	53.7 KB
ID:	415646 Click image for larger version

Name:	BathPlumbing2.JPG
Views:	39
Size:	49.3 KB
ID:	415649

On the waste side, the only trick is using a marine shower sump to drain the tub, since the grey tanks are above the floor. I will use the same one I used in the Safari and the mounting brackets have already been installed in the floor. All grey lines will air gap into the tanks. The plan is for the waste piping to be bonded 1 1/2" ABS with rubber couplings for stress relief.

Regarding the hot water heater, I think I will give it it's own post.

Using the 3D model I was able to pretty easily layout the piping, check for interference and even estimate how much I need. It will probably look completely different when it's finally installed, but at least I will have worked though it even if only in the computer.

So please, find the problems I haven't seen and I know there are better ideas out there. - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 08:56 AM   #145
Rivet Master
 
57Vintage's Avatar
 
1958 26' Overlander
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 872
Images: 22
If you want the larger Shurflo stainless accumulator I have one you can have. I switched over and use the IRVWPC pump controller that works better for me. It controls the speed of the pump by monitoring psi. It is adjustable. Order the right angle kit if you go this route.

https://www.irvwpc.com/
__________________
Harold & Rebecca

Our thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f97...er-172124.html
57Vintage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2022, 11:35 AM   #146
4 Rivet Member
 
1976 Argosy 24
1961 28' Ambassador
1968 26' Overlander
Lakewood , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 426
Hey Mark, glad to see you’re still at it. The modeling program looks pretty cool, almost all of mine involved all the real parts and pieces either being in place or moved around to try different things. It’s been a few years now but on my ‘61 Ambassador some of the basic ideas were going to be to keep the water tank in its original location below the streetside bed, to eliminate the streetside rear closet and put the shower there. It had been a twin and I was going to make it a double. Galley was going to stay in the same location with furnace and water heater below. Oven would be eliminated. Fridge on curbside. Was going to keep the galley upper locker but eliminate all the wooden ones to open the inside space. This proved very successful in the ‘68. Was going to put a large grey tank below deck. One of the biggest things I was after was to consolidate the plumbing. This would have had everything streetside within about 10 feet. Contrast that with the ‘68 Overlander with fresh tank and pump in front (OK), pipe runs all the way down streetside, around the to curb rear to water heater and up the curbside to the sink a trip of around 45 feet. My revised setup has it all streetside in about 8 feet and all totally accessible through the cabinets. We’ve been camping this rig for right at 2 years now and are nearing 200 nights and are liking the majority of our choices. Possible changes… a bigger and deeper kitchen sink with an overhead sprayer type faucet, the Dometic stove is compact, light and powerful but sometimes the flip up glass cover limits pan placement options (being vegetarian, we cook a lot), the furnace heats well but is quite noisey - not sure what to do about that especially at altitude. If you’re going to be in it for long periods like we did 2.5 months in AZ this winter, make sure you really like the beds. For what it’s worth, we lit the water heater maybe only 3 times, RV park had nice, convenient showers.
Currently am about to change many of these ideas as I have launched into a ‘46 Spartan Manor that is heading towards being quite different in having a compact bath with shower, tankless water heater that a van guy showed me, bigger stove and sink, probably an Isotherm Cruise 130 fridge, permanent full bed in rear(how this trailer was originally). Big differences to work around in this trailer include a door streetside rear, single axle so smaller wheelwells, not as many windows but working around placement. Should be fun.
I like the Vermont antique plate, your trailer has a rear access door that mine didn’t.
Looking forward to seeing your progress….
Good luck, Matk D
mrdes8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2022, 04:18 AM   #147
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57Vintage View Post
I switched over and use the IRVWPC pump controller that works better for me. It controls the speed of the pump by monitoring psi. It is adjustable. Order the right angle kit if you go this route.
https://www.irvwpc.com/
Hi Harold, I hadn't heard of that before. Does it really work as well as their videos? A bit pricey, but does exactly what I want. Quiet and efficient. Wonder when all pumps will have that built in? - Thanks Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2022, 04:41 AM   #148
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Mark D, wow, you are really deep into this trailer restoration bug. A Spartan Manor is very cool. If I had a short list, that would be on it. Are you doing a renovation or total customization? Sounds like you are camping in the Overlander, what's the status of the Ambassador?

Somewhere south is in our plans for next winter. Totally agree regarding showers. Our Safari has yet to be a "wet" bath. My plans for the water heater have it been more of a dump load for the solar rather than a always-on consumer. - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2022, 08:57 AM   #149
Rivet Master
 
57Vintage's Avatar
 
1958 26' Overlander
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 872
Images: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by steinVT View Post
Hi Harold, I hadn't heard of that before. Does it really work as well as their videos? A bit pricey, but does exactly what I want. Quiet and efficient.
You will still hear the pump run, but the 'drumming' from running full bore is gone. Not perfect, but better.
__________________
Harold & Rebecca

Our thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f97...er-172124.html
57Vintage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2022, 09:46 AM   #150
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Electrical Design

I think I am finally done with the next design phase, electrical.

Here are the features.
  • The trailer will feature 12 - 100w solar panels.
  • It will be heated and cooled using a 115v mini-split
  • 24v Batteries, at least 10kwh
  • 3000w Inverter
  • Components will all be Victron
  • Water heating will be electric
This design is the last of many as I educated my self along the way. Finally I feel ready to let everyone have a look. I discovered a video today by Wil Prowse, the YouTube guru of all things solar/DIY energy. In this video he explains a Victron system that is almost identical to what I came up with independently. Finally I think I'm done.


First the Solar/Charging/Inverting System Diagram:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Electrical System 61 Ambassador.JPG
Views:	65
Size:	175.6 KB
ID:	417811


The Solar Layout:
Click image for larger version

Name:	SolarCircuits.JPG
Views:	49
Size:	126.2 KB
ID:	417813


Next the 24v circuits:
Click image for larger version

Name:	24vCircuits.JPG
Views:	51
Size:	87.2 KB
ID:	417812


Now the 12v circuits:
Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=12v Circuits.JPG Views: 57 Size: 170.0 KB ID: 417814" style="margin: 2px" />


And finally the 120v circuits:
Click image for larger version

Name:	120v Circuits.JPG
Views:	60
Size:	133.5 KB
ID:	417815


So please have at it, happy to answer all questions. - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2022, 10:22 AM   #151
Rivet Master
 
57Vintage's Avatar
 
1958 26' Overlander
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 872
Images: 22
Looks like you've put a lot of thought into the system. I am curious, what advantage is there to run those two pumps on 24v versus 12v?

Is the Lynx component, first from the battery -, a Lynx Smart BMS? I have the Victron version and like the control it provides. Does the Lynx version also restart charging (after shutting down for low voltage) when shore power is available? I had to add a VE Bus BMV mains detector to get that to happen.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Wiring page 2.png
Views:	56
Size:	1.31 MB
ID:	417817
__________________
Harold & Rebecca

Our thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f97...er-172124.html
57Vintage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2022, 01:03 PM   #152
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Running the pumps on 24v vs 12v is not a big deal. It's half the amps so should be less loss also less going through the 24v-12v converter. Those three items just are available in 24v.

That item is a Victron Lynx Shunt. It is a little pricey, but it makes such a clean install.

I am planning on relying on the BMS that comes packaged with what ever batteries I end up purchasing. Is there an advantage to a lynx BMS? I thought they were mainly for Victron batteries. - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2022, 06:14 PM   #153
Rivet Master
 
dbj216's Avatar

 
1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
1969 21' Globetrotter
Conifer , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,397
Images: 1
Holly cow: You are way over my head with electrical engineering. I've got a battery, a converter, 12v fuse panel and circuits, 120v inlet and a power distribution panel. Things I can understand. With your system you can stay in the middle of a field until your water runs out. I think the solar package on new Airstreams can do a similar thing.

David
__________________
WBCCI #8607 VAC Region 11
KnowledgeBase trailer renovation threads: 69 Globetrotter, 76 Sovereign, 75 Overlander, 66 Trade Wind Such fun !
dbj216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2022, 08:00 PM   #154
Rivet Master
 
57Vintage's Avatar
 
1958 26' Overlander
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 872
Images: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by steinVT View Post

That item is a Victron Lynx Shunt. It is a little pricey, but it makes such a clean install.

I am planning on relying on the BMS that comes packaged with what ever batteries I end up purchasing. Is there an advantage to a lynx BMS? I thought they were mainly for Victron batteries. - Mark
Not sure if the Lynx is any advantage, but from what I understand the BMS within the battery (i.e. battleborn) only supply control over charging, and I not sure if they monitor for low voltage. I had already bought my Victron batteries when Battleborn come into play. Someone using other than Victron probably has better info than I do.

The reason I had looked at adding component(s) to restart charging is the Victron Shunt won't restart charging when you hit a really low voltage. I had it happen once and had to trickle charge each battery up high enough to restart charging. This happened after Trout Boy had the same issue in his thread.
__________________
Harold & Rebecca

Our thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f97...er-172124.html
57Vintage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2022, 05:14 AM   #155
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Thank you Harold. Your comments made me do some more research. That's why I love this forum.

The battery protect was positioned in the wrong place. Where I had it, it would be subjected to charge current, a no-no. In the diagram below I have moved it over to the DC feed circuit. Once tripped, it should turn back on as the battery voltage recovers. - Mark

Updated system diagram.
Attachment 417868
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Electrical System 61 AmbassadorV2.JPG
Views:	59
Size:	175.3 KB
ID:	417869  
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2022, 09:06 PM   #156
4 Rivet Member
 
coloradoup's Avatar
 
1966 24' Tradewind
1987 34' Excella
Olathe , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 364
Mark,
I was wondering about all the 10 AWG wiring you are using. It seems like most of that stuff would normally run off 12 gauge wire. I suppose if you are using the stranded wire it won't be too bad but working with 12 gauge and stuffing it into single gang boxes with the receptacles is a challange, at least with the solid romex I use.
__________________
Link to my build.
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f11...nd-224399.html
coloradoup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2022, 04:34 AM   #157
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradoup View Post
Mark,
I was wondering about all the 10 AWG wiring you are using. It seems like most of that stuff would normally run off 12 gauge wire. I suppose if you are using the stranded wire it won't be too bad but working with 12 gauge and stuffing it into single gang boxes with the receptacles is a challenge, at least with the solid romex I use.
All of the 120v wiring could have been 12ga. The losses on the main AC in line would have been about 1.4% and I was trying to keep it under 1%. So I upped it to 10ga and bought a 50ft roll of the marine stranded. I was just planning on using it up. If I have packaging problems I will have no problem switching to 12ga. - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 03:58 AM   #158
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Energy Module

I'm sure it has been done a hundred times before, but I haven't seen it. Instead of installing all of the blue Victron boxes solidly in the trailer, I will build a small rack that everything is installed into. Using 2 twist lock NEMA connectors for the 120v, 2 Anderson connectors for the 12v and 24v, 4 MC4 connectors for the solar and the HTMI/USB connectors for the Cerbo GX, the complete module could be unhooked from the trailer in a couple of minutes. And the best part is I can build in on a workbench instead of standing on my head under a counter. Because it includes the batteries, it really becomes a stand alone power center. It will include all the items within the dotted lines.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Electrical System 61 AmbassadorV3.JPG
Views:	44
Size:	205.4 KB
ID:	418188

Here is the module I have come up with. It will be bolted to the floor and have connecting cables long enough that I can pull the whole unit out from under the counter for troubleshooting or removal.
Click image for larger version

Name:	EnergyModule.JPG
Views:	38
Size:	71.0 KB
ID:	418185Click image for larger version

Name:	EnergyModule2.JPG
Views:	39
Size:	60.1 KB
ID:	418186

It will slide under the kitchen counter.
Click image for larger version

Name:	EnergyModuleInstalled.JPG
Views:	36
Size:	104.2 KB
ID:	418187

I think it will make the build a whole lot more fun - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 06:43 PM   #159
Rivet Master
 
dbj216's Avatar

 
1986 34' Limited
1975 27' Overlander
1969 21' Globetrotter
Conifer , Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,397
Images: 1
You are really good at computer aided design (or cardboard aided design as some do, like me.) Unlike Airstream, you are thinking ahead for easy miniatous. Lucky you have that Ambassador that offers the room for all that solar and battery gear. You will never have to worry about leaving the lights on again.

It will be interesting to see how it all works when completed. You can camp in the mountains all winter just like the miners did in Colorado. They had wood instead of solar.

David
__________________
WBCCI #8607 VAC Region 11
KnowledgeBase trailer renovation threads: 69 Globetrotter, 76 Sovereign, 75 Overlander, 66 Trade Wind Such fun !
dbj216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2022, 04:06 AM   #160
Rivet Master
 
steinVT's Avatar
 
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston , Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 503
Thanks David. I enjoy the 3D computer design. It allows me to try multiple ideas without having the hardware in front of me. As a program manager, my other job, we have a saying, "In the life of every project, there comes a time it is necessary to shoot the engineer". That time for the Ambassador is now.

My order of attack will be to get all of the solar panels installed, do the in-wall wiring, finish the insulation, get the interior walls up and install the mini-split. I will need heat this fall. I am also thinking I should order all the parts I need for both electrical and plumping before the prices go up or they're just not available. Not going to be cheap.

It has already started. Yesterday I received deliveries from USPS, UPS and Fed Ex. I really liked the fantastic fan that VTS sold, but it hasn't been available forever. I decided to try a vent off of Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B096Q6NBTR) that was about half the price of the Fantastic fan. It was delivered yesterday and it looks and runs great. We will see how it lasts when installed. I also got a delivery of ALCLAD aluminum to fabricate patches for the water heater and furnace exhaust stacks. Won't be needing those.

My posts now should be much more hardware orientated. No more computer until its time for the final designs of the furniture. - Mark
__________________
Our Restoration Blogs: 1956 Safari and 1962 Ambassador
steinVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1962


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Time to bite the bullet SARGE/AF Off Topic Forum 10 02-25-2015 11:17 AM
Gonna bite the bullet and finally get one! WisePharm Member Introductions 23 02-12-2014 09:35 PM
Time to bite the bullet and put new in the old! ericjan2 Cabinets, Counter Tops & Furnishings 3 10-18-2012 09:37 PM
Shark-bite Pex components. boatdoc Fresh Water Systems 19 11-05-2008 07:00 AM
About To Bite The Silver Bullet strohmdl Classic Motorhomes 9 07-28-2008 04:14 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.