Frustrated with Airstream “Quality”.

[switz]

One thing to remember about going back to the factory. They replace a broken crappy part with a new crappy part of the same prt number.

That is why many folks go to either independent shops where appropriate parts are used that should have been used at the factory or do the repairs themselves.

Our 2013 25FB International Serenity was build in July of 2012 when production was 26 units per week. Not one QC issue. All issues were created by the dealership at our local area.

I was at the factory every day when our 2014 Classic was being build (end of December 2013 and first two weeks of January 2014) and handed a laundry list of issues to the QC supervisor who's office is at the end of the assembly line. Production was 41 units per week. The build issues were not fixed at the factory and more were created by the delivery driver. Went to A&P Vintage Trailer Works near DFW airport for repairs and custom work.

Our 2015 23D International Serrenity was build in September of 2014 with production at 51 units per week. Major issues including failing wheel bearings from lack of grease getting the unit to A&P above for repairs and custom work from the East coast. The so called dealer pre-delivery inspection had to have been done over coffee in the employee lounge with the visible issues we found unaddressed both inside and outside of the trailer. A glaring example was no "Airstream" on the back of the trailer.

Now production is ramped up to the point that errors just never get addressed. Our 2014 Classic listed for about $97K with the 50 amp power and second A/C unit. They now list for close to 160K for the same body shell and glitz and sparkles that will be inoperative in the future. Airstream will be lucky to have replacement computer boards seven years out from date of manufacture. Then what happens with the computer run trailer with a dead computer?

[Zybane]

One reason I am glad I went with a 2016 Classic. I did miss out on the Alde hydronic heating, but I have good old fashioned easily repairable mechanical switches and wiring in mine (in addition to the ducted AC which was very important to me).

It is pretty funny how fast the MSRP's are climbing, especially with the constant junk build quality. I guess it is what the market demands...

[AirMiles]

I'm satisfied with my 2017 Airstream. Sure its had some issues, but nothing that I couldn't fix with the excellent support from fellow AirForums members. Travel trailers take a beating while going down the highway so maintenance is to be expected. An Airstream is one of a few travel trailers that can take that beating and still be on the road for decades. When I see SOB travel trailers with their flapping parts going down the road, I'm glad I bought an Airstream.

When a wood screw works loose on my Airstream, I stick a wooden toothpick in the hole and reinsert the screw. That has worked every time for me.

[gypsydad]

They all can/do have quality issues; it's not just Airstream. Some have good luck with their new units and some don't. What is new here with this discussion? I am sure they care also, just some of the peeps working there can overlook or be careless, and QA miss some things...it happens...check out Boeing discussion on issues on delivery...not just RV industry! Unfortunate. I have owned MH's and travel trailers for over 30 years and have had issues pop up in every single unit.

One thing I will say about the hinge and door issues; they don't use very big screws so you can either remove and use larger or loosen and coat with wood glue (Gorilla is what I have used) to improve their hold.

One cause can also be from tires; if your tires are overinflated for your AS weight, you can/will have issues inside from the stiff ride. this can be popped rivets, doors falling off (hinges) cupboard latches popping, etc. Check your AS weight on the scales, consult the Mfg. tire chart for the weight your carrying and adjust down...even 10psi can make a difference. Many folks here will tell you same experience...happened to us with new tires this past summer when the dealer inflated to around max pressure- 70psi...once we adjusted down to 55 per the tire chart, no issues since..12,000 miles later. Good luck!

[Ssm_001]

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Those workers on the line are working with the tools, material and training provided by management. The lack of a meaningful, replicable, predictable approach to quality is a decision made by management. The idea of a “Customer Advisory Board” which is taking forever to create and shouldn’t take the place of management going camping in these things themselves or showing up at rallies and talking with their customers, or....- well that’s from management too.

I’m sorry you had to waste 4 hours to needlessly correct for management’s decision to scrimp on materials. Just think you might reconsider where to point the finger - no one, even management that misses the mark - is a “turd” in my view. There’s very few truly bad people but there is tons of very bad process.....

You are bang on. Issues such as this will almost always lead back to a process issue.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Ssm_001

You are bang on. Issues such as this will almost always lead back to a process issue.

Thanks - and can we just state for the record that you and I are 2 different people and the coincidence of my username abbreviation of SSM and your username of Ssm_001 is exactly that - coincidental? [emoji3]

I have replied to my own comments before and given myself kudos for being brilliant, but I do that in full transparency and promise I have only one account here! [emoji3]

[Len n Jeanne]

I suspect that part of the problem is with parts that AS doesn't manufacture by itself, but purchases from elsewhere and then installs at the factory.

We've had all kinds of things go wrong with both of our Bamsters.

We purchased the first one used, but under a dealer warranty (from Can-Am,) so they fixed free-of-charge problems ranging from ceiling leaks to the back cupboard falling out onto the bed during a long road trip-- of Interstate highway driving. After the first year, the problems pretty well ended.

We purchased our current one new (from Spokane,) and AS replaced and reimbursed a jammed lock that we had we had to have drilled by a locksmith during our first year. But after year one, the rest of the repairs have been at our expense, notably ongoing electrical problems with the front lights, the flat screen TV falling apart (again during paved highway driving,) loose screws, and the closet door completely falling out en route as the hinges fell apart during out latest trip.

We do like to get into the wilder places, but we do not leave graded roads; and then we take them, notably the washboards, ruts, and cattle guards, nice and slow. We've had as many problems happen on the Interstate as we have on desert back roads.

I don't know if it's possible for AS designers to consider the types of roads and the length of driving time it takes for most of us to get to the beautiful back-of-beyond campsites shown in those Airstream ads, but my hope is that an upgrade in the overall sturdiness of the purchased components would help.

We don't expect perfection. Any recreational purchase will likely have something go wrong with it: swimming pool, boat, horse, OHV, bicycle, cabin, and so on. (Apparently also with private planes, but we wouldn't know.) We're just hoping to make a basically good product that much better.

[AtomicNo13]

Expect less, get less...

[Atwebs]

Take heart, it just isn't the Airstreams that develop issues! Our Starcraft had issues from the very first trip -dead batteries that needed to be replaced on the maiden voyage, a bathroom door that didn't close fully and apparently slammed into the wall repeatedly as we were traveling at first, a bunk end that slanted downward at an alarming angle, a water heater that only worked if there were NO breezes in the area, a stove that burned everything regardless of the temperature you set (it was high or off!), a fan that went off and on independent of any input. The end for the Starcraft was the wall that delaminated due to a small leak (1/2" scrape on the edge) in the roof and also killed the stereo, the speakers and all the overhead lights as well as the sofa edge and cabinet with the water that leaked inside (yep it was a wet year but we couldn't even see the small slit in the roof!).

Oh yeah, there were also the comfort things -3" mattress that compressed to nothing with an actual body on them, an awning that sometimes worked and sometimes didn't -and that rotted off after 2 years, and a table that fell off the tiny side braces the one time we used it as a bed and ripped the top layer of table formica off.

And the dealer? No help at all, he offered to repair and only charge us cost plus a minimum per hour...no warrantee, no free fix even when it was obviously their issue.

[AirChris]

Originally Posted by spclkaz

...sigh... how many times have we seen this? I am on my 3rd Airstream, 1994 30ft. Front Kitchen Excella. If ever I had to replace it, which I never plan to do as long as I continue to RV, it would NEVER be with a newer model. They are OVER HYPED, OVER PRICED and POORLY CONSTRUCTED. Airstream has gone through several owners over the years and quality has suffered as a result... with the current boom in RVing, the current owners are all about pushing as many as they can out the door at the expense of quality. IMHO, Airstream wanna bees should do their homework and learn about what makes a quality rig and how to inspect them (or find and pay someone you trust who can.) You will save a ton of money and heartache in the long run. But, as they say, a sucker is born every day and you often see them going down the road towing a shiny new headache... just my two cents...

I kind of have to agree with you. We just purchased a 2018 FC 30RB that was still on the lot and we did get a good price, so I'm thankful for that, but now that the initial luster has worn off I can see the general quality of materials and craftsmanship is not great, not too bad but definitely not precise or luxury. I am just hoping the shell, trailer, plumbing, and electrical are good. We are planning on full timing it at the end of the year. I am ok with doing minor work to fix things like cabinets or minor electrical but I don't want to be going in for repairs all of the time. These forums are worrisome at times. But I have found people are usually more vocal when having problems than when things are going smoothly.

If I bought a large boat for almost 100K would it really be that much better in quality?

Anyway, we hope to enjoy our new tiny home for years to come and are looking forward to many adventures. Hopefully more enjoyable than not

[HeadWest]

A good dealer that does a complete PDI, staying in the first night or two at the dealers for an initial shake down and fix anything that comes up right away with systems can eliminate many of the initial problems. Too many people are only looking at a dealer as a necessary evil and make their decision strictly on price and not service. We had a great dealer and delivery experience from our then local dealer (and was price competitive).

Unfortunately, Airstream is counting on the dealer for the final QC with the PDI and many dealers frankly suck.

[dechampion]

POSTED ON FEBRUARY 6, 2019 BY MELANIE SPEICHER
Airstream faces second labor lawsuit

By Jim Painter - For the Sidney Daily News

DAYTON – Payroll calculations of Airstream in Jackson Center is again being challenged in court. The action was filed the same day a settlement was reached in a separate case against the company last week.

On Jan. 31, the lawsuit was filed in the U.S. District Court in Dayton and calls for a collective and class action against the company for alleged violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) and Ohio law.

The lawsuit seeks alleged unpaid overtime wages since Jan. 31, 2016, liquidated damages in an amount equal to the unpaid overtime, attorney’s fees, costs, and any civil penalties. Court records note the plaintiffs are also requesting another award of 6 percent of the liquidated damages.

[ROBERT CROSS]

...well, maybe just that all the 'improvements' JC has made have not really made anything better over time.

I saw the term 'pilot holes' in a previous post, you really think they take the time to pre-drill? You are lucky if the screw hit's the mark. Part of the problem...the screws really don't hold very well in the newer balsa-core plywood being used to save weight.

Question....“do you get what you pay for or expect more than you get?”

Bob
🇺🇸

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

...well, maybe just that all the 'improvements' JC has made have not really made anything better over time.



I saw the term 'pilot holes' in a previous post, you really think they take the time to pre-drill? You are lucky if the screw hit's the mark. Part of the problem...the screws really don't hold very well in the newer balsa-core plywood being used to save weight.



Question....“do you get what you pay for or expect more than you get?”



Bob

[emoji631]

I’ve always been puzzled by Wally’s quote: “Let’s not make changes, let’s make only improvements.” How limiting is that? I think I would rather Airstream be open to exploring changes that improve the experience of the campers who buy the product.

There’s a great story of George Balanchine handing over the NY Ballet to his successor. His advice: “Your job isn’t to be reverent to me, it is to be relevant.”

I like that concept....

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Atwebs

Take heart, it just isn't the Airstreams that develop issues! Our Starcraft had issues from the very first trip

Yes, but my guess is that your Starcraft did not cost six figures?



And for the comment that the issue is parts that Airstream doesn't manufacture, yes, that may be true, however, leaks in the shell, windows, etc is clearly an Airstream manufacturing issue, and moreover, some of the SAME issues have been ongoing for over a decade in some shape or form, I think that is more than enough time to get it figured out, yet by the OP's comment, clearly, it's not been addressed.



I didn't know about the overtime lawsuit, but honestly it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I found every person I encountered at Airstream (tour, service center, support etc) top notch, friendly and approachable (even if the answers I got back wasn't really what I wanted to hear). In fact when I went to pick up my trailer at the dealer down the street from the factory just before the holiday shutdown, I took the tour and got to chat with the production manager. Mind you it had been several weeks since my unit was built, he recalled my trailer specifically because they had to wait for the ultraleather sofa.


Anyway, not sure it's angry employees as much as overworked and somewhat lazy employees. I know I posted this in other threads, but when you find stuffed McDonalds breakfast sandwich wrappers in areas folks normally wouldn't see, that speaks VOLUMES as to the mentality on the production floor, going back to as early as winter of 2003 (2004 model year) and lack of caulk in key areas is just inexcusable, hand built or not.


The good news is that in most cases for the many units that have issues, after 3-4 visits or a few self repairs, the trailers tend to be fairly trouble free, for the most part, but some have a few years of hell to go through before they get it right, which honestly shouldn't be the case.


No one hits a home run on every swing, but you gotta a least step up to the plate, sadly, I feel the quality comments made by the company are at times wildly overrated. I firmly believe that the company is riding on the company's history far too much rather than take meaningful steps to address the repetitive issues coming off the line. It's a way cool trailer, why can't it be way cool and way better built at the same time? At these prices, why are they not using composite flooring? Are that they certain there will be leaks that they started coating the outer edge of the floors sometime around 2005? How do these re-occurring leak issues get past the water tunnel they put these in for testing? Why not install more water jets and put some in areas they the current system misses (wheel wells, etc)?



IMHO, it would seem to me that slowing it down and getting it right the first time would save the company money in the long run, rather than the multitude of posts like the OP and warranty costs. Remember, you don't get reimbursed to haul the trailer 50+ miles to a dealer (sometimes a heck of lot further). You don't get reimbursed for loss of use...all of these have a $$ amount that can be tagged to a repair, and unfortunately, those are on your dime in addition to the near 6 figure or 6 figure + cost of the initial RV.



Don't misunderstand me, I'm not looking for perfection, my biggest gripe is the issues that I read about year after year-- for over a decade now and many times it's the same issues, either identical or a variation of an similar issue. These seem very avoidable with just a bit of determination, engineering and manpower.

[judithk]

Yes there are lots of little problems; given what these cost it is disappointing that management chooses to scrimp; certainly not the factory workers' fault. That said, I love my little 'Beercan' (2018 Sport 16ft) I can understand that as the wood shrinks, screws fall out- I'm at 10,000 ft on rutted dirt rds in dry Colorado. I've reset most of them using wood glue. Things that shouldn't have happened are with items AS subcontract- one of rods holding toilet seat kept coming out(happy it didn't go down the toilet)- finally contact cemented it in place. While just getting the trailer home from the dealer the Domenic frig door came off one of the hinges,fortunately not bent during the 100 mi trip home. adding another washer snugged it up. the bracket holding the TV is not adequate- came loose every time, so it is bungee-corded. And then of course the radio which turns itself on every time I plug in- now that I'm aware of it I keep the volume low so the cat doesn't freak and check it often. AS, you can do better than this!

[Eagle Keeper]

Originally Posted by AirChris

If I bought a large boat for almost 100K would it really be that much better in quality?

My wife and I just switched from boating to the Airstream. I’ve owned Searays from 20’ to over 40’. I can tell you without a doubt there are as many if not more problems on boats. Our last SeaRay was a 40’ with twin Cat diesels. We put 2000 hours on her. It amazes me how close the two (SeaRay and Airstream) are in build quality. I had problems with every system on the boat at one time or another. I see a lot of people try to make an argument about yacht quality vs Airstream. I can tell you it’s a grass is greener argument. The $$$ involved in buying and owning a in water yacht are about four times the $ in buying and owning an Airstream. Don’t get me wrong we loved boating. It’s just way more $$$ and the physical demands are a lot more. But expectations of a better build quality just because it’s a boat are false. If anything AS is a little better!

[rmkrum]

BOATS is an acronym that stands for “Bring Over Another Thousand, Skipper”. My dad was a yacht captain, in that business on custom built corporate yachts. His maintenance budget was huge, and took tons of work to maintain the boat and all the systems on board. The only reason he had few issues was that he was meticulous on keeping up with all the preventive maintenance.

Airstreams are kinda like boats plus the complications of being built like an airplane, without the aerospace rated components. Even Boeing has the occasional weird issue. We won’t talk about the software glitch that took a shiny new Airbus into an uncommanded landing in the trees either.

[lsbrodsky]

[QUOTE=Eagle Keeper;2236646]My wife and I just switched from boating to the Airstream. I’ve owned Searays from 20’ to over 40’. I can tell you without a doubt there are as many if not more problems on boats. Our last SeaRay was a 40’ with twin Cat diesels. We put 2000 hours on her. It amazes me how close the two (SeaRay and Airstream) are in build quality. I had problems with every system on the boat at one time or another. I see a lot of people try to make an argument about yacht quality vs Airstream. I can tell you it’s a grass is greener argument. The $$$ involved in buying and owning a in water yacht are about four times the $ in buying and owning an Airstream. Don’t get me wrong we loved boating. It’s just way more $$$ and the physical demands are a lot more. But expectations of a better build quality just because it’s a boat are false. If anything AS is a little better!

I must disagree. I owned a Pacific Seacraft sailboat for 17 years, others for shorter periods. While there are significant maintenance items like bottom painting and place to keep it is expensive, I never had a failure in any system in the boat. No plumbing failures, no electrical failures, no mechanical failures. The diesel engine is a separate category, but Yanmars are pretty reliable. This is not a claim I can make about my Airstream. Even the stuff Atwood builds for the marine industry is better quality than their RV stuff, albeit at a higher cost. Colonial did the PDI on my trailer and they did a fine job; there were no warranty issues when I bought the trailer one year old. But the stuff that has broken, come apart, or failed is just inexcusable. People buy these things so the manufacturers do not need to change their ways.
Larry

[Mike G]

I had a 37' Hanse sailboat that I bought new. Then, after two years of tweaking & debugging, I said I would never again buy a new boat.

Then I turned around a bought a new Airstream . . .