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Old 03-30-2024, 10:18 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Hans627 View Post
Well said!
Yes, agreed very well said. Adding yes it's a business, but rework and warranty work are also a cost of business and much more costly than getting it right the first time. I give props to Airstream for backing up their product. Our experience with the Service Center has been excellent so far (waiting on the repairs). But it's a lot of expense for them to replace many things and pay an experienced guy to do it.

@Hermes said in another thread:
Quote:
...the warranty period is very important to finish the building of your trailer.
Which gave me a chuckle but also there's a lot of truth in it.
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Old 03-30-2024, 10:44 AM   #82
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I would add gas lines under plumbing, …

While I don't love seeing a bunch of unsecured wires behind the walls, it is almost entirely low voltage, and nothing I have seen appears to create a safety issue. It is also almost never seen by the average owner. Getting journeyman or master electricians to do meticulous wiring wouldn't improve much of anything long term except my appreciation. But it would increase the cost of the trailer by a lot.

Sadly, ….. Airstream has found something close to the sweet spot between passable quality and maximum profit. Can you blame them? If you had a low margin business with a ton of overhead and risk, would't you do exactly the same?
Yes, I actually DO consider LPG lines as plumbing. AS gets that fairly “OK”…as they are mostly metal and primarily external to the cabin.

But I disagree about “nothing I see…. is a safety issue”

That’s AS’s view apparently as well…. HIDE IT…DON”T LET THEM SEE IT….and no one will complain.
The lower HALF of your cabin is 120 VAC…. and most of the low-volt DC is powered…converted BY 120 VAC… in an Inaccessible rats-nest. Nothing “safe” about that…especially using unsecured, solid-conductor wire in a vibrating/chafeing environment. Guess what is the Leading Cause of RV Fires..??

YEP! ELECTRICAL.

“Blame them??”” YES. I DO Blame them. I don’t believe creating dedicated wiring-harnesses would be overly-expensive. In fact, that is safer and ultimately more cost effective. It’s what auto-makers do….across wide-variations of options/models…using a common harness-design within product-lines.

Beside being safer, It would also relieve AS of many warranty defect issues. I believe it could actually reduce costs to consumers and/or increase profit-margin to AS.
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Old 03-30-2024, 11:55 AM   #83
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Agree with the wiring and also access. I too, come from Aircraft background, and worked with CAD/CAM/CAE systems for 40+ years. A wiring "wiring" harness for each model is not that difficult to come up with and build, which likely would save them lots of money thru labor, electrical parts, wire, and time vs the way it's done now. Each harness could have additional wires/connectors for options. They do include some "option" connectors like for solar on the roof now, but the "rats next" wiring inside still a mess, IMHO. Thats how the auto industry and aircraft industry do it. No excuse for the "rats nest" at this stage of their business.
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Old 03-31-2024, 05:15 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
Agree with the wiring and also access. I too, come from Aircraft background, and worked with CAD/CAM/CAE systems for 40+ years. A wiring "wiring" harness for each model is not that difficult to come up with and build, which likely would save them lots of money thru labor, electrical parts, wire, and time vs the way it's done now. Each harness could have additional wires/connectors for options. They do include some "option" connectors like for solar on the roof now, but the "rats next" wiring inside still a mess, IMHO. Thats how the auto industry and aircraft industry do it. No excuse for the "rats nest" at this stage of their business.
Wiring harnesses would be great improvement on so many levels. I wonder why they don't do it? Especially if it would save them money.
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Old 04-01-2024, 06:32 AM   #85
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Wiring harnesses would be great improvement on so many levels. I wonder why they don't do it? Especially if it would save them money.
I would find it hard to believe that they haven't considered it and rejected it for whatever reason. Perhaps they did the math. Perhaps they did it incorrectly, even.
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Old 04-01-2024, 09:10 AM   #86
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I wonder if there is a difference in pre/post COVID builds and ones built in the thick of the pandemic.
There is little to no question there are/were differences. Airstream changed appliances, and specs due to products being constrained, which was partly why during the pandemic you were waiting over year for a trailer. Some units shipped without mattresses or seat cushions and those were shipped to dealers and/or customers after the fact as Thor could aquire them.

Post pandemic, Airstream then changed some appliances completely.

In terms of build quality, my unit was built 8/20 which I think was at the height of the pandemic. I would say, so far, that this unit's overall quality of build has been equal or greater than the other 2-3 I've owned dating back to the 90s.

In the end, quality or not, you vote with your wallet. If you are not happy with your trailers, sell it and go get another, but be forewarned, as has been said here on this thread, it's an RV manufacturing thing. Don't believe me, go read about Jayco, Prevost, etc. They all have some folks upset they spent $100k+ and have leaks, stuff coming apart, etc. If it really and truly is an issue for you, stay out of buying and RV and stick to tents. Most all RVs have some issues. The good news is they are imperfect machines built by imperfect beings and can be fixed if you can find a good repair facility. Once you get it all ironed out, if you even have to, you have yourself a fantastic RV. Sure it can be a hassle, but you go into it with your eyes open.
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Old 04-01-2024, 09:21 AM   #87
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I’m sure you all know that Lance Trailers use wiring harnesses in their units.
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Old 04-01-2024, 09:22 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by sfranklin View Post
There is little to no question there are/were differences. Airstream changed appliances, and specs due to products being constrained, which was partly why during the pandemic you were waiting over year for a trailer. Some units shipped without mattresses or seat cushions and those were shipped to dealers and/or customers after the fact as Thor could aquire them.

Post pandemic, Airstream then changed some appliances completely.

In terms of build quality, my unit was built 8/20 which I think was at the height of the pandemic. I would say, so far, that this unit's overall quality of build has been equal or greater than the other 2-3 I've owned dating back to the 90s.

In the end, quality or not, you vote with your wallet. If you are not happy with your trailers, sell it and go get another, but be forewarned, as has been said here on this thread, it's an RV manufacturing thing. Don't believe me, go read about Jayco, Prevost, etc. They all have some folks upset they spent $100k+ and have leaks, stuff coming apart, etc. If it really and truly is an issue for you, stay out of buying and RV and stick to tents. Most all RVs have some issues. The good news is they are imperfect machines built by imperfect beings and can be fixed if you can find a good repair facility. Once you get it all ironed out, if you even have to, you have yourself a fantastic RV. Sure it can be a hassle, but you go into it with your eyes open.
The voice of experience. Good advice IMHO!
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Old 04-01-2024, 03:13 PM   #89
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I just want to be able to close the door without slamming it.
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Old 04-02-2024, 08:02 AM   #90
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No kidding right !!!
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Old 04-02-2024, 11:40 AM   #91
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I've been on this Forum for 17 years and there never has been a time people haven't been complaining about Airstream quality. I understand complaints started several years before this Forum began and people complained before there was a Forum or internet.

There are the same several things to consider:

1. They usually sell everything they make (original Basecamps were a sales disaster) providing little incentive to improve.

2. Thor makes very good profits and to them, their approach for all their RV's (build fast and cheap) is working.

3. While RV manufacturers often produce crap or near crap, that is a poor excuse for a so called "premium" or any other product.

4. Components are often also of low quality. Manufacturers are responsible for what components they buy and can demand better quality from suppliers.

5. US car manufacturers produced poor quality vehicles without better features (disc brakes, rack and pinion steering, for ex.) until they had major competition from other countries and government regulations to promote safety—otherwise quality and safety of US cars ands trucks would still be low. None of this exists for RV's.

6. Better quality might cost more money, but Thor makes very large profits and that is where to start, so better quality might not cost more if profits are more reasonable.

7. Most people think Airstream makes trouble free trailers and some of them buy them. Until the general public hears about problems, nothing will change, but when they do, when you sell it, you'll get less money.

8. Wally Byam might be astounded by what happens now. But he is long dead and no one is coming to improve quality and reduce corporate profits, so buy Thor Industries, or sell your Airstream, or tell everyone they are mediocre and overpriced, or fix what you can and drive on. After ten years, it was time to move on and we did, but if we traveled long distances like we used to, I'd want to better road trailer than the Nash, but not necessarily an Airstream.

Airstreams are design icons—that is true. They also tow easily compared to big boxes and the basic structure lasts a long time, but otherwise they are mediocre. Aluminitis is a serious disease and many people cannot be cured, but I assure you there is life after Airstream.
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Old 04-02-2024, 12:19 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G8trwood View Post
I just want to be able to close the door without slamming it.
You folks who have a door that does not close without some "help", need to know the problem can be fixed by an AS technician. Our doors on our first couple 25's had this issue. My "new" 2014 25' door/screen door also, was much better and did not require slamming to close, but still needed some "help". My currant 28' FCT worked fine when new, but I "tweaked" the frame a bit by forgetting the rear stabilizers were down, when raising the front power jack. That caused both the screen and front door to need a lot of "help", until I went to JC for other reasons. The tech told me this is a common problem, with the front doors after delivery due to a host of reasons including shipment of the units to dealers. Each door hand-made, like the rest of the AS, can be "adjusted" so it no longer needs "help" to close... Vinnie's crew can do this, and I am sure other AS service guys can also; just not sure which ones other than JC. Ours works/closes just fine since our JC visit, for last 5 years now...
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Old 04-02-2024, 02:05 PM   #93
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I'm hoping with slower production schedules that my unit comes out in relatively good shape, and that Colonial can get it as expected.

What are the current production schedules ?
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Old 04-02-2024, 02:27 PM   #94
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My 28RBT order was just accepted by the mothership. Going to build on 5/16.

I'm told the 28 and 30 models are on a different line, and for whatever reason they take longer to build than the 27s that share the same line as the 23s and 25s. The 28 and 30 line is also a little slower at the moment (less demand?) from what I've been told.
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Old 04-02-2024, 06:31 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by gypsydad View Post
You folks who have a door that does not close without some "help", need to know the problem can be fixed by an AS technician. Our doors on our first couple 25's had this issue. My "new" 2014 25' door/screen door also, was much better and did not require slamming to close, but still needed some "help". My currant 28' FCT worked fine when new, but I "tweaked" the frame a bit by forgetting the rear stabilizers were down, when raising the front power jack. That caused both the screen and front door to need a lot of "help", until I went to JC for other reasons. The tech told me this is a common problem, with the front doors after delivery due to a host of reasons including shipment of the units to dealers. Each door hand-made, like the rest of the AS, can be "adjusted" so it no longer needs "help" to close... Vinnie's crew can do this, and I am sure other AS service guys can also; just not sure which ones other than JC. Ours works/closes just fine since our JC visit, for last 5 years now...

Thanks.

Will look into it. I adjusted the screen door through bending at it works much better. Though it still rubs the top frame.
The main door almost looks a little hinge bound based on rub marks to the screen hinge brackets and the latch, while perfectly centered in the claws, appears to be set a bit too deep to the inside.
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Old 04-03-2024, 01:27 PM   #96
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Thanks.

Will look into it. I adjusted the screen door through bending at it works much better. Though it still rubs the top frame.
The main door almost looks a little hinge bound based on rub marks to the screen hinge brackets and the latch, while perfectly centered in the claws, appears to be set a bit too deep to the inside.
Understand; they had to "bend" my door a bit to get it to close without any help, but it was done and works great now...
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Old 04-03-2024, 01:44 PM   #97
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My door usually worked right (unless someone—I won't name her—made the stabilizers too tight), but the screen door always was a problem.

After making doors for decades, you'd think they'd figure it out.
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Old 04-03-2024, 01:52 PM   #98
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I'm really hoping mine arrives with minimal fuss.

I've got high posts counts / long tenure on many different make's forums and they all universally have threads that bemoan the quality of the brand. A owner of one of the RV dealerships I purchased many units from once told me:

"It's not about the brand, or the model, or even the line that your rig is built on. It's all dependent on the crew that builds yours out. If you get a good crew, you'll be happy. If you got a bad crew, you won't be."

Here's to hope I have a good crew !
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Old 04-03-2024, 05:09 PM   #99
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I'm really hoping mine arrives with minimal fuss.

I've got high posts counts / long tenure on many different make's forums and they all universally have threads that bemoan the quality of the brand. A owner of one of the RV dealerships I purchased many units from once told me:

"It's not about the brand, or the model, or even the line that your rig is built on. It's all dependent on the crew that builds yours out. If you get a good crew, you'll be happy. If you got a bad crew, you won't be."

Here's to hope I have a good crew !
We must have the worst crew of "builders" ever convened—we had 60 different items to fix on our new Airstream back in 2007.

Some things have been problems on Airstreams forever and never change.
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Old 04-08-2024, 09:07 AM   #100
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We must have the worst crew of "builders" ever convened—we had 60 different items to fix on our new Airstream back in 2007.

Some things have been problems on Airstreams forever and never change.
Sounds like you had a bad experience. Sorry to hear. I do find it odd that people feel compelled to come back to these forums and complain when they no longer have the item on which this forum is focused (in this case, AS generally and 2016-Current Classics specifically). While this is a public forum, I do hope people learn to just move on from that chapter in their lives.

I have a 2020 30 Classic and at some point will get lifts installed, soft starts for the AC and upgrade the solar and battery system. Our ACs kept our camper cool on a couple of humid, 100-105 degree days in Virginia last year, but they were going full time until well after sunset. We didn't have much shade, either. Our fridge was "cool" but not cold but a fellow Airstreamer in the campground showed me how to install a little fan (similar to a computer fan) in the outside fridge box to move more air, and also he had a small one installed in the fridge to circulate the air there. Theirs was plenty cold. I love how this community is open to a chat and sharing experiences to help out.
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