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Dave18134 · 10-11-2017, 04:32 PM

By the way, Tom Henritze also posted a nice how-to on this upgrade on Airstream Addicts, link https://m.facebook.com/groups/154435...95486214051716

AirUSN · 10-11-2017, 05:22 PM

Be easy on me.. I'm still a toddler at everything Airstream...But, I do love my Eddie Bauer 27....open the back hatch... instant vacation mode.. and odd looks from folks...LOL

Anyway, the previous owner, amazing guy we spoke about an hour on the phone as he filled me in with how well he took care of it...

Anyway #2,The previous owner, I'll call him "John" - installed AGM batteries last year, so would he have also swapped out the inverter? Is swapping out required? It sound as if it should be as I read over this thread...

many thanks... and for the record I'm potty trained...

gypsydad · 10-11-2017, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirUSN

Be easy on me.. I'm still a toddler at everything Airstream...But, I do love my Eddie Bauer 27....open the back hatch... instant vacation mode.. and odd looks from folks...LOL

Anyway, the previous owner, amazing guy we spoke about an hour on the phone as he filled me in with how well he took care of it...

Anyway #2,The previous owner, I'll call him "John" - installed AGM batteries last year, so would he have also swapped out the inverter? Is swapping out required? It sound as if it should be as I read over this thread...

many thanks... and for the record I'm potty trained...

No; the AGM's should drop right into replace the wet cells. I did this with my last 2014 25', when the wet cell Interstates went bad few months after I purchased. I paid the extra money to Interstate and just dropped them in. AGMs worked fine the rest of the 3 years we owned. In hindsight, I believe the original Interstates would have been fine too, if the stock Converter would have been a multi-stage unit!

Upsets me that this happened to me again with the new 2017 and also my buddy's 2017 23'; and countless others on this forum!

I'm surprised Interstate did not go after Airstream for all the replacement batteries they must have replaced over the years, likely due to the single stage charging Converters AS was using!

uncle_bob · 10-12-2017, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirUSN

Be easy on me.. I'm still a toddler at everything Airstream...But, I do love my Eddie Bauer 27....open the back hatch... instant vacation mode.. and odd looks from folks...LOL

Anyway, the previous owner, amazing guy we spoke about an hour on the phone as he filled me in with how well he took care of it...

Anyway #2,The previous owner, I'll call him "John" - installed AGM batteries last year, so would he have also swapped out the inverter? Is swapping out required? It sound as if it should be as I read over this thread...

many thanks... and for the record I'm potty trained...

Hi

Batteries are commonly bought by case size. Group 24's are the small case size used by AS. Group 27's are the larger case size used by AS. Which ones you get varies by model and in some cases upgrade packages. You can get either size as flooded cells (lower cost) or as AGM's. Some people find that group 27's will fit in a model that came with group 24's. In some cases you can go larger still. In general, the bigger the case size, the more battery capacity you can get.

Bob

AirUSN · 10-12-2017, 05:38 PM

double thanks

dasams · 10-13-2017, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by AirUSN:
... installed AGM batteries last year, so would he have also swapped out the inverter? Is swapping out required?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad

No; the AGM's should drop right into replace the wet cells.

Sounds like he was asking whether he should replace the converter and the answer is 'yes' if you want long lasting batteries. Dave

AirUSN · 10-13-2017, 08:00 PM

Thanks. I’ll look and see if it’s been swapped.

waninae39 · 10-13-2017, 08:10 PM

for smaller unit, get the NEW PD 4655. It support lithium battery

even if you dont have them now, it will work with your AGM. then when you go lithium, no need to cgange the converter

for larger trailers, get the larger PD unit that support lithium

gypsydad · 10-13-2017, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasams

Originally Posted by AirUSN:
... installed AGM batteries last year, so would he have also swapped out the inverter? Is swapping out required?

Sounds like he was asking whether he should replace the converter and the answer is 'yes' if you want long lasting batteries. Dave

yes...your correct. I mis-read his question. Thanks for catching

uncle_bob · 10-14-2017, 08:28 AM

Hi

If you are going with a full up lithium system, the batteries are going to be pricey. Converters and solar chargers are cheap. Get good ones that properly match your batteries when you buy them. Don't try to buy a "one size fits all" now and stretch it to a future need.

Just as with lead acid's, the real question on lithium is "how long will it last". There's lots of lab experiment level data. There is very little real world "used it for 10 years" experience. The same sort of experiments that show lithiums running for 20 years show lead acid's running for 8 or 10 years. Field experience is needed to back the lab data up ....

Note: This is not to say that the lab is wrong about lithium lifetimes. It's just to say that it might be off a bit. Running a charger that is specific to your batteries very likely will impact their longevity. How specific does it need to be? Only time will tell.

Bob

Bob

Dave18134 · 10-14-2017, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad

No; the AGM's should drop right into replace the wet cells. I did this with my last 2014 25', when the wet cell Interstates went bad few months after I purchased. I paid the extra money to Interstate and just dropped them in. AGMs worked fine the rest of the 3 years we owned. In hindsight, I believe the original Interstates would have been fine too, if the stock Converter would have been a multi-stage unit!

Upsets me that this happened to me again with the new 2017 and also my buddy's 2017 23'; and countless others on this forum!

I'm surprised Interstate did not go after Airstream for all the replacement batteries they must have replaced over the years, likely due to the single stage charging Converters AS was using!

Did Interstate replace your batteries? If so, did you work through Interstate or your AS dealer? I ask because I just tested the interstates in my 6 month old 2017 27' and they each have some bad cells. The batteries sat on the dealer lot for 10 months before we got the trailer. I didn't help them any, probably overcharged, but they have never been low on water. I've put in the new converter/charger and will either replace the Interstates (if they do it for free) or upgrade to AGM on my nickel.

gypsydad · 10-15-2017, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave18134

Did Interstate replace your batteries? If so, did you work through Interstate or your AS dealer? I ask because I just tested the interstates in my 6 month old 2017 27' and they each have some bad cells. The batteries sat on the dealer lot for 10 months before we got the trailer. I didn't help them any, probably overcharged, but they have never been low on water. I've put in the new converter/charger and will either replace the Interstates (if they do it for free) or upgrade to AGM on my nickel.

Yes, I worked through Interstate each time; once in San Diego 3 years ago, and twice in Helena MT this past summer. I got 100% replacement and was offered credit toward more expensive batteries by Interstate, if I wanted to upgrade. I got AGM's in 2013 and paid the difference. This past summer however, I just got new wetcells at no charge.

Your assumption of "over charging" them is likely the issue; it was with mine, I am convinced. When I talked with Interstate and also the service manager from AS where I purchased this past summer, it finally "sunk in" that the wet cell batteries can easily be overcharged if left plugged into shore power with the stock AS single stage charge they have been installing, pre- 2018 models. in my 2014 model after the first problems were resolved with new batteries, I installed a battery kill switch which I used when I would store for a week or more, and I never had another problem. With the new 2017 28 I just got, I did not install a kill switch, and sure enough within 3 months, I had bad cells, as did my friends new 23' model. Convinced shore power while storing for a week or more with no use caused the problem.

So what do you do; the Interstate warranty is for 1 year on the typical AS stock install; but you have not had it that long...not your fault. I would first call Interstate and tell them you just purchased a new AS and batteries are bad. They will likely want you to bring in the batteries to check out. They can verify bad cells pretty quick. Although they warrant for 1 year, both my batteries and my friends batteries, "did not have the warranty date card" punched on the battery, so they could not tell how long I had them. I showed them the paperwork for the AS sale from AS and had no problems. If you encounter an issue with Interstate due to their warranty, I would call AS dealer and try that rout!

Let us know how it goes...

Forgot to mention; I just replaced the stock converter in my 2017 with the Boondocker 1260 multi-stage Converter...you may consider doing this also so this does not happen again...several of us have done this now from what I have read on forum.

uncle_bob · 10-15-2017, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Yes, I worked through Interstate each time; once in San Diego 3 years ago, and twice in Helena MT this past summer. I got 100% replacement and was offered credit toward more expensive batteries by Interstate, if I wanted to upgrade. I got AGM's in 2013 and paid the difference. This past summer however, I just got new wetcells at no charge.

Your assumption of "over charging" them is likely the issue; it was with mine, I am convinced. When I talked with Interstate and also the service manager from AS where I purchased this past summer, it finally "sunk in" that the wet cell batteries can easily be overcharged if left plugged into shore power with the stock AS single stage charge they have been installing, pre- 2018 models. in my 2014 model after the first problems were resolved with new batteries, I installed a battery kill switch which I used when I would store for a week or more, and I never had another problem. With the new 2017 28 I just got, I did not install a kill switch, and sure enough within 3 months, I had bad cells, as did my friends new 23' model. Convinced shore power while storing for a week or more with no use caused the problem.

So what do you do; the Interstate warranty is for 1 year on the typical AS stock install; but you have not had it that long...not your fault. I would first call Interstate and tell them you just purchased a new AS and batteries are bad. They will likely want you to bring in the batteries to check out. They can verify bad cells pretty quick. Although they warrant for 1 year, both my batteries and my friends batteries, "did not have the warranty date card" punched on the battery, so they could not tell how long I had them. I showed them the paperwork for the AS sale from AS and had no problems. If you encounter an issue with Interstate due to their warranty, I would call AS dealer and try that rout!

Let us know how it goes...

Forgot to mention; I just replaced the stock converter in my 2017 with the Boondocker 1260 multi-stage Converter...you may consider doing this also so this does not happen again...several of us have done this now from what I have read on forum.

Hi

What voltages and times constitute "over charging"? Some chargers put > 18V on the batteries. Some never get above 13.2V. What's "to much"?

Bob

Doodad · 10-15-2017, 07:17 PM

The converter in our 2018 FC 27' is a WFCO WF- 8955PEC.

gypsydad · 10-16-2017, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodad

The converter in our 2018 FC 27' is a WFCO WF- 8955PEC.

Believe that is a WF9855 on your 2018 AS model, according the AS warranty folks.. Supposed to be a 4 stage charger also, just not sure how it may compare to the others mentioned in this thread.

Doodad · 10-16-2017, 06:52 PM

Naw, it's 8955. I took a pic but can't seem to attach.

uncle_bob · 10-16-2017, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Believe that is a WF9855 on your 2018 AS model, according the AS warranty folks.. Supposed to be a 4 stage charger also, just not sure how it may compare to the others mentioned in this thread.

Hi

They all put pretty much the same voltages and currents on the battery. That's the gotcha here. If you look at the specific voltages the converters apply they aren't very different. None of them do the crazy high voltage stuff some of the automotive chargers do.

Simply put:

All charge at a current limited rate of 30 to 50A
All stop the constant current around 13.7V
All drop back (eventually) to around 13.4V
Some occasionally boost to ~14.5V to equalize cells.

The first two are a two stage charger. Every charger I've ever seen (including some from the 1920's) has been a two stage charger.

The first three are what's called a three stage charger. Same voltages plus a drop back. Everything AS has used for at least the last decade has been three stage.

The "full batch" is a four stage. The risk is that the higher voltage *does* move a bit more water out of the batteries. You swap off needing to check water a bit more often for a bit more capacity.

Gotcha is still that drying out a battery (running the water down slowly) is not what people report as "boiling battery". What they describe is a battery with a shorted cell hooked to a charger. All chargers will indeed boil a battery that has a shorted cell. The other way to do it is to put a dead short on the battery ... I have data on this ....

Bob

Dave18134 · 10-17-2017, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Yes, I worked through Interstate each time; ....

Ok, I LOVE Interstate. Today they took my old batteries and gave me to brand new ones. All I had to do was show my paperwork on the AS showing we purchased in April 2017. The new batteries are out being charged by the new Boondocker 1260 as we speak. :Bigsillygrin:

gypsydad · 10-17-2017, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave18134

Ok, I LOVE Interstate. Today they took my old batteries and gave me to brand new ones. All I had to do was show my paperwork on the AS showing we purchased in April 2017. The new batteries are out being charged by the new Boondocker 1260 as we speak. :Bigsillygrin:

Good for you! Great plug for Interstate service again!

knunut · 10-22-2017, 07:54 AM

Have 2016-26U. Was at JC Wed. My orig.8355 converter had no output. Wanted to upgrade to what they are installing in 2018's. That converter is "Smaller" so they would have to replace cabinet front panel also. Which they would not do.
They would only replace with same model.
The rest of my repairs went well.