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Old 03-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #301
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The key? Get a sufficient number of Delegates who are instructed to vote as they believe their membership would wish and then engage in constructive debate.
Typically there have been a number of units not represented at the International Rally and I wonder if this year there may be still fewer in attendance than previous years. Regardless of how the unit members vote and propose changes unless someone is going to sit out a day or two or more of these meetings at a high expense to attend the rally and also to travel to the rally site, many members will not be represented at all. Or just perhaps, attendance will receive a much needed boost from its current number of registered attendees entirely because of the new constitution, but I do doubt that happening.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:19 PM   #302
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If the Popular will is ignored or ruled out of order, vote no. It only takes 1/3 plus 1 to kill. Don't give up before the meeting.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:28 PM   #303
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Units should make provision for an alternate if necessary. Can someone refresh my memory as to the requirements that are mandated for an alternate to qualify to bring the unit's vote forward? I remember a simple designated proxy will not be accepted. Planning will be necessary and a last minute trip cancellation could stop a unit from representation unfortunately.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:36 PM   #304
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I beleive the point here is that the "New Constitution" itself should have never gotten this far without the (solicited) will of the membership. I am with Rodney on this one, I have never seen any official WBCCI document that mentions anything about a "New Constitution" being thought about, constructed, written or anything. And by official I mean on WBCCI letter head, not just a typed signature from somebody claiming to be the IP. The affore posted email mentions only the invitation to suggest (in writing, to the appropriate people/person) a revsion to the current ruling documents.

Futhermore, I am shocked at the statement made of having to FIRST pass a new constitution SO THAT the bylaws can then be written and presumably adopted without membership approval.
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:40 PM   #305
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Units should make provision for an alternate if necessary. Can someone refresh my memory as to the requirements that are mandated for an alternate to qualify to bring the unit's vote forward? I remember a simple designated proxy will not be accepted. Planning will be necessary and a last minute trip cancellation could stop a unit from representation unfortunately.
An alternate is selected by the unit. There are 2 forms which the Unit President needs to fill out. One is the delegate form and the other is the alternate delegate form. The signature of the Unit President is all that is required. The delegate and alternate should be members of that unit. A recent change allows a delegate to be an associate member of the unit if they are members of a unit in the same region and are not delegate for the other unit.

Hope that makes sense...
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:09 PM   #306
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Yes it does make sense. Thank you Richard. You explained it very clearly.

It's that same region restriction that I find problematic. A distant region may have more difficulty in finding a delegate to attend than a unit in closer proximity to the rally site. It takes more time to travel and it's more expensive for that delegate to represent their unit. A verification call, fax or e-mail from the unit president to transfer validation to another member who is in attendance would allow a higher success rate of maximum coverage though out the club. We shall see what is proposed in the new constitution without delegates in the future...

Bob, can you tell us how that would play out without a meeting at the International as is the current and past practice of deliberation and voting? How do the unorganized members organize for discussion? Is it through the area representatives? Must the area president give approval and recommendation to move an item forward as new business? Will all region officers be eliminated and new area officers selected, and how; or if the current region officers will be reduced in number, how will that be accomplished?

I would have liked to have seen a change for delegates to preside over their own meeting rather than the Executive Committee officiating instead of the total elimination of the status and provision to address issues collectively. I think the ability to work together electronically, without geographic, or the current meeting date restrictions, would be a much more productive and cost effective approach to conducting business. I believe you said future amendments will take less time in the future. Can you give an example of how?
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:11 PM   #307
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Carol,

If there are any proposed amendments to the CoC or Constitution they will be published before the Int rally, there would be a meeting to debate any amendment(s), this meeting would be open to all members.

The IP would preside over the meeting, after which the originator may make any changes. A ballot would be sent out to be completed and returned to HQ by mail or electronic means by a date certain, the votes would be tallied within 5 days and the results published.

Time frame <60 days to the meeting of members.
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:53 AM   #308
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Futhermore, I am shocked at the statement made of having to FIRST pass a new constitution SO THAT the bylaws can then be written and presumably adopted without membership approval.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The revised bylaws were written first. The committee then realized their revision conflicted with the current constitution, and so set itself to rewritting the constitution. This is why President Beu's letter only refers to streamlining the bylaws. No letter was ever sent out asking for input on a new constitution.

The cart is before the horse.
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:04 AM   #309
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1.to continue to be a member they can't own an SOB but if I recall if in good standing they can run.

2. there are about 500 Mal's to be notified, good question.
Bob, when are you going to tell them that the revised constitution does not give MALs a vote?

When will you tell them that members who sell their Airstream can continue as members as long as they do not buy SOB, UNLESS it is SOB parked in a permanent or semi-permanent location, used as a vacation home?
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:31 AM   #310
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Bob, when are you going to tell them that the revised constitution does not give MALs a vote?

When will you tell them that members who sell their Airstream can continue as members as long as they do not buy SOB, UNLESS it is SOB parked in a permanent or semi-permanent location, used as a vacation home?
What if the member buys the SOB before they sell their Airstream? The devil is always in the details.

Forrest can you give us any update on your amendment progress?

Thanks, Dan
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:09 AM   #311
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You got to be kidding, right? You are trying to explain rule structures to an attorney? REALLY? For your next trick how about explaining wallowing to a pig?
Rodney, You do not have to be a lawyer to sue someone. Do it a dozen or so times and you might just feel you are a bonified lawyer.

I could explain wallowing. I will need a pool, some water, some dirt, and a healthy contribution of dues money

I love this ecomotion. If you talk down to someone, you just put a and it makes it appear you meant to be humerous It works very well in this thead
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:04 AM   #312
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No letter was ever sent out asking for input on a new constitution.
Forrest’s surprised at that remark…..in our conversations we spoke about the use of the word bylaws meaning both.
As far as asking for input see the last line in the 8/29 email below "Should you have an input for study by the Committee, please communicate directly with Dona." additionally you know a thread was started on this forum for input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
The revised bylaws were written first. The committee then realized their revision conflicted with the current constitution, and so set itself to rewritting the constitution.
From the beginning this committee was doing both the bylaws and constitution AKA the Bylaws.
It was not an opps moment as to the conflict at all.

We could have presented both at the mid-winter, but what if the Constitution is amended at the delegates meeting, that was the possible conflict not that we changed direction.
We set time table in August to have the bylaws done a certain date and the constitution by another date.
In presenting the constitution first it was the most logical way to accomplish a Revision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightdi View Post
From: Norman Beu <beu146@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 10:44:19 -0500
Subject: Membership
Friends

The selection of members for the Bylaws Revision Committee, approved by the Executive Committee on July 5, 2010, is now complete. I am pleased to announce the following appointments:

Dona Garner, Chairman, WBCCI Parliamentarian
Kerry Mattila, President, Ontario Canada Unit
Joe Perryman, 1st Vice President, Region 10
Bob Novak, Member, Metro New York Unit
Tom Smithson, First Vice President, Northern California Unit

I have encouraged Dona to consult with the 2020 Committee, the Vintage Airstream Club, and others as appropriate. I want to thank Dona, Kerry, Joe, Bob and Tom for stepping forward to the challenge of this significant task. My personal interest is to make the Blue Book more user friendly, to reduce the bulk, to review Standing Committee Job Descriptions, and to identify impediments to "fun, fellowship and adventure" - all the while retaining the essential character and the traditions of the WBCCI, including the Code of Ethics. Should you have an input for study by the Committee, please communicate directly with Dona.

Safe Travels

Norm Beu
President, WBCCI
Rod the above email wasn’t enough as you stated, below see the 9/17 excerpt from the Presidents Monthly Newsletter distributed via Constant Contact.

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Interesting, how was that distributed? I don't recall seeing it. If you can show it went to everyone, then I halfway withdraw my show me a single document comment. But if it did not, then I wont. Beyond which, that announcement does not contemplate a complete rewrite, it clearly implies a tweaking.
Perhaps you missed those emails?

A revision in not a tweak see RONR p 575

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… This is why President Beu's letter only refers to streamlining the bylaws.
Incorrect as you can see in p 1 below

I know you have RONR please see p 575 a revision is everything.

The term Bylaws encompassing the Constitution is common.


In an email-International President's Newsletter, which was sent on 09/17/2010 2:15 PM EDT by Constant Contact the following was stated;

The following represents current information of general interest to the WBCCI membership.

1. The Constitution and Bylaws Revision Special Committee is taking shape. Approved during the International Convention/Rally at Gillette, WY on July 5, 2010, the Committee includes:
· Dona Garner, Committee Chairman and WBCCI Parliamentarian
· Kerry Mattila, President , Ontario Canada Unit
· Joe Perryman, 1 VP, Region 10
· Bob Novak, Member, Metro New York Unit
· Tom Smithson, 1VP, Northern California Unit

The Committee's initial report will be made during the January 24-28, 2011 Mid-Winter IBT Rally in Robstown, Texas. My general guidance to the Committee was to recommend revision to the Blue Book which would reduce the "bulk" and make it more user friendly, while at the same time retaining the essential character and traditions of the WBCCI, to include the Code of Ethics. The Committee is already hard at work, and I congratulate each member for stepping forward to contribute to this potentially significant effort.

Norm Beu

.
The Blue book is the Constitution, bylaws and policies.



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Old 03-03-2011, 06:08 AM   #313
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Bob, when are you going to tell them that the revised constitution does not give MALs a vote?
I can't when it does!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
When will you tell them that members who sell their Airstream can continue as members as long as they do not buy SOB, UNLESS it is SOB parked in a permanent or semi-permanent location, used as a vacation home?
No one asked, but it does


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Old 03-03-2011, 06:19 AM   #314
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"retaining the essential character and traditions of the WBCCI, to include the Code of Ethics. The Committee is already hard at work, and I congratulate each member for stepping forward to contribute to this potentially significant effort.

Norm Beu


Am I correct that the CODE OF ETHICS was not retained in the new version.?
That the ethics and grievance comittee will be gone?

Would the new code of conduct be basically a suggestion? Or is there some way it could be misused to harass members in the same way the code of ethics was?
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:24 AM   #315
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Am I correct that the CODE OF ETHICS was not retained in the new version.?
That the ethics and grievance comittee will be gone?

Would the new code of conduct be basically a suggestion? Or is there some way it could be misused to harass members in the same way the code of ethics was?
CoE gone,
grievance committee gone

CoC can't be used that way, I know where you're coming from no issue there.

If someone does something so egregious, action can be taken according to and thru RONR, but its a totally different process.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:27 AM   #316
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Well,

Now that the CoE is out, Grievance Committee out, Leo could be back in!

This thing might be worth passing after all.
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Old 03-03-2011, 07:47 AM   #317
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Carol,

If there are any proposed amendments to the CoC or Constitution they will be published before the Int rally, there would be a meeting to debate any amendment(s), this meeting would be open to all members.

The IP would preside over the meeting, after which the originator may make any changes. A ballot would be sent out to be completed and returned to HQ by mail or electronic means by a date certain, the votes would be tallied within 5 days and the results published.

Time frame <60 days to the meeting of members.
You are partially correct.

Once the process has been followed and the Delegates are deliberating, the proposed amendment may be "perfected" by simple majority vote. The IP and Parliamentarian explained the process in Sarasota.

The proposed change will be discussed, one article at a time. The change proposed for each article may be revised by simple majority vote of the delegates. Following completion of this process, the "perfected" proposal will be subject to a vote, requiring a 2/3 approval.

The units will debate the original proposal and, hopefully instruct their delegate to work toward improvement. Otherwise, this change will not likely pass.
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Old 03-03-2011, 08:46 AM   #318
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It seems that one of the major problems with passing (or not) these changes is that we have to use the old system where the delegates and IBT can slice and dice everything that comes before them. I would be happy to see the demise of this along with the burial of the code of ethics and all that goes with it.
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:29 AM   #319
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LI Pets][/B]
Carol,

If there are any proposed amendments to the CoC or Constitution they will be published before the Int rally, there would be a meeting to debate any amendment(s), this meeting would be open to all members.

The IP would preside over the meeting, after which the originator may make any changes. A ballot would be sent out to be completed and returned to HQ by mail or electronic means by a date certain, the votes would be tallied within 5 days and the results published.

Time frame <60 days to the meeting of members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmbstreamer View Post
You are partially correct.

Once the process has been followed and the Delegates are deliberating, the proposed amendment may be "perfected" by simple majority vote. The IP and Parliamentarian explained the process in Sarasota.

The proposed change will be discussed, one article at a time. The change proposed for each article may be revised by simple majority vote of the delegates. Following completion of this process, the "perfected" proposal will be subject to a vote, requiring a 2/3 approval.

The units will debate the original proposal and, hopefully instruct their delegate to work toward improvement. Otherwise, this change will not likely pass.
We are not on the same page here. I was asking Bob how the amendment or motion process would work without having delegates, once and if, the New Constitution passes as it is currently written. From here on we may want to designate our comments and questions as B.C. (before the new constitution) and A.D. (Anno Domini...after the time of its emergence and separation from the body, or simply after delegates are no more.)Whoops I apologize for being confused and confusing and will try to make myself and the distinction clearer in the future.

Matt, I did want to ask you if you could present your power point presentation as a webinar? I think some units or individuals may not have the opportunity to view the presentation otherwise. Besides going live on the internet it could be archived and available for download. Is that something that could be incorporated into WBCCI's method of release to the membership?
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:34 AM   #320
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My apologies to Bob. The thread wanders and so do I.

I'm expecting to get the PowerPoint from Jackson Center, as a UP. I think it will also be available at WBCCI.org.

When I have specific information, I will let you know.
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