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Old 11-17-2008, 08:40 PM   #15
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then don't pay your dues and move on.

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Originally Posted by wheel interested;63916t3
No way would I align myself behind that kind of leadership.
I have to add 3 to post so there but the title should say it all
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:00 PM   #16
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Boy do I ever feel like an outsider. As a new member, I have no idea what this thread is about. Sounds like something I probably should just walk on by.
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:56 PM   #17
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Actually I agree about moving on. Organize to change it, or quit the organization, or don't join.

Gene
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Old 11-17-2008, 10:43 PM   #18
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Well Ed I did renew after hearing Bob was reinstated and I joined a local unit rather than signing as a MAL in support of the new 2nd VP Laura (Airedale) At 21 years old and the author of young people in the WBCCI thread I think she is hope for the future.

I really doubt you agree with being in lockstep with the current IBT and what they have done and what they are doing, so your post not to belong has surprised me. Must have caught you on a fluke in a bad way today.

But just to demonstrate how simple this is, I'm sorry my words were grievious to you, wasn't my intention at all. Now see IBT, it's not that hard to apologize! The thing is... to say sorry accepts responsibility and that is what they are avoiding in my opinion. I believe they believe they are never wrong, do hate being criticized, and will not address anything but a compliment or an award.

However the recommendation of the review board has not been completed and Bob's justice has not been satisfied as such. Just the facts here. I see no cause to become alarmed Ed. There will be those that believe the apology should be given as directed.
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:11 PM   #19
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As a mom I have had more than a little experience in this and the "I'm sorry" part, though it may have taken longer, was an imperative part of the lesson and the "break" in the altercation was just the first of it. Following through is significant in my opinion.
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:17 PM   #20
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Leo's case dismissed too....

I see a trend developing here. I got my info on the WDCU. I'll fill out the app tomorrow. I had a 3.5 hour stint at the dentist's today and I'm whipped. Since Bob is going to the Can Opener, I'll do my best to get there too and meet him.

Seriously, can we change WBCCI.... or do we really even care? Lets all:
  1. focus on going camping and building the local clubs into CAMPING clubs
  2. if we must have conflict with the IBT find battles worth fighting - Such as changing WBCCI enough to get Corporate sponsorship back, and being more frugal with the club's money.
  3. infiltrate every region with forum members (I bet that's a done deal already.)- teach everyone who is computer illiterate how to use the internet and introduce them to airforums.com
  4. gradually take positions of leadership
  5. continue to support forums rallies - its about CAMPING folks
  6. invite and entertain the blue beret members and IBT fogies, converting a few here and there, getting a few more to be a bit tolerant, getting the rest too drunk to care
  7. outlive them if all else fails
P.
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Old 11-17-2008, 11:37 PM   #21
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Talking Crazy Horse & Sitting Bull

Or as we know them "Bob & Leo"....

Custer never admitted he was wrong, did he? But what remains of Custer's reputation today? He's seen to be an arrogant vainglorious showoff who forgot the most basic rules of tactics:
  • know your enemy
  • never underestimate their numbers, commitment or skills
  • all other things being equal, choose the high ground (blew that one BIG TIME)
Did you know his troops called Custer "old iron ass" because he could stay in the saddle and endure any hardship longer than his men could? Just had one problem - arrogance, and a tendency to rate opponents as "inferiors."

Tonight the scalp of the yellow-hair hangs in from the lodgepole of Crazy Horse's tent. The stick from the butt of the yellow-hair was used by Sitting Bull to count coup. Light the campfires, open a bottle of firewater, dance under the moon.

I'm crawling into bed with a glass of Suxx (an excellent Australian red wine). Nite all. Paula
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:51 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Actually I agree about moving on. Organize to change it, or quit the organization, or don't join.

Gene
It's a shame really Gene, when people who might consider joining are left with a negative impression from what they read or hear on the web, and decide not to join. The real heart of WBCCI is at the unit level. Some units are great, some not. I happen to be part of the Watchung NJ unit, which is a great group of people. The biggies at international do need to make changes, and sacking dissenting voices is just wrong. But I really think that the web tends to let issues take on a life of their own, They never die, and no resolution is adequate to all. If I was not a member, and all i knew was what I read on this or even the WBCCI forums, I would never join. I do think though, that there are thousands of members who enjoy the club for what it is, a chance for like minded individuals to get together, and I'm glad to be a member. George.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:19 PM   #23
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It's a shame really Gene, when people who might consider joining are left with a negative impression from what they read or hear on the web, and decide not to join.
Well put George. If it were not for being a WBCCI member we would not have camped in some amazing places that the club gains special access to. Metro NY's Ft Schulyer Rally, Watchung NJ Unit's West Point Rally, WDCU's Cherry Blossom Rally on Rogers Farm, etc. Beside the excellent camaraderie, camping at these spots are worth the price of admission to the WBCCI alone.

Check out last months West Point Rally slide show here....


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Old 11-18-2008, 01:21 PM   #24
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George, I appreciate what you're saying and I'm sure you and the Wachung group are dedicated members seeking change.

Do I need to join another organization with problems at the top? My life is full enough. Does every organization need some changes? Yes, some more than others. I am involved in trying to reform an organization that needs some serious changes and thus, I know how hard that is and how much of my time it takes. I understand the Four Corners Unit is quite informal and would be a plus in any decision I make at another time.

Do I want my money, especially during difficult economic times, to go to an organization with methods at the top that I don't like? No. We get scores of requests to join organizations and give money to worthwhile charities every week—we have to make tough decisions where to contribute and what to join. I wish I had unlimited funds, but don't.

I realize that the impression one gets from what is posted can be distorted. It could be that 10 or 20 unhappy WBCCI members make it sound like hundreds are unhappy, but it could also mean that they are the top of the iceberg—most people do not complain, they vote with their feet out the door. I understand many people have left the organization over the years and though I don't know the numbers, that tells me something.

So, for the time being, it doesn't work for me. I'm sure there are good local units and perhaps as the "loyal opposition" they can organize to make the changes necessary to make the WBCCI relevant to Airstream owners in the present. I wish you all luck. There are major changes occurring now in how things are organized (See David Carr's column in the New York Times for Nov. 10, 2008, page B1—go to the Times' website and search for David Carr and the article on how Obama changed how to organize and mobilize) and a lot of it is about using the internet. The older models, all of which I am very familiar and comfortable with, are not working now and I am as confused by new ways of doing things as anyone. The Forum is part of change and is gradually supplanting WBCCI it seems.

Gene
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:24 AM   #25
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First off.... Paula, I am so glad you joined us. I promise that at your next event I will be your personal welcoming committee. I promise you will feel like you are with family. The only thing you will not like about the WDCU is the time between rallies.

Second ... Gene, I hope you change your mind. I think you will find the politics up top to be something to just laugh at.

Third.... Ed, I want to sit under the awning and have a cold beer or six with YOU.

Fourth... Bill you too....

Fifth and final.... I had my undies in a bunch over this suspension thing. It pissed me off big time and I jumped on the "vote with my feet" band wagon. I wrote Mr. Larson a letter stating my displeasure with the ITB actions and requested he over rule the suspension for the sake of the club stability. I also stated that if further suspensions were to take place (Leo) that I would resign from the club. I was sent a somewhat form letter as many others were. However, some one listened. I hope it was not appeasement.
At the WDCU installation rally there were many discussions of what we (our unit) should do and what the unit members wanted to do to proceed. A few of us were proposing holding our dues until the mess was straightened out. But in our unit a voice of reason came forth. I am not sure exactly who it was but someone said, "I think we have fun doing what we do as a unit. Nothing is broke here. Let's just keep doing what we do and show them how fun it can be." And everyone seemed very comfortable with that.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:34 AM   #26
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I thought long and hard about this statement - night shift gives me that opportunity. What I came up with is that as long as people say that - its all well at the unit level so there are no problems. Well, that is just not the case.
Bob was almost thrown out of the club just for speaking his mind. That was overruled and furthermore a few steps were to be taken, including publishing in the Blue Beret an apology to Bob and his wife. That hasn't happened - in fact, the IBT has not completed any of the tasks they were requested to do when this was overturned in the first place to the best of my knowledge.
To ignore what has happened is running around with blinders on.
Yes, go out and have fun. But remember, that is not enough to keep the club alive. You can't just ignore what the leadership is doing while you are out there having fun. Because that is how a name change was almost run through and that is how off brand products were almost allowed into the club.
Kicking somebody out is serious stuff and will not go away by pretending the situation didn't happen.
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:59 PM   #27
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In the long, I don't think what the WBCCI does about Bob will matter much. The world is changing. Social and civic organizations are dropping like flies. Stop by a meeting of the local Rotary, or Lion's Club, or JayCees, or Optimists, or whatever you have in your neighborhood. In our area, the average age of members has to be over 60. The "younger generations" aren't nearly as interested in flags, rulebooks, name tags or organizational politics. The Internet generation exists on spontaneous, decentralized, fluid social networks. I expect the WBCCI will take decades to wind down. It's not about Bob, or the international leadership, or local units. It's about relevance. The Web 2.0 Airstream owner doesn't care about ribbons, or nametags, or rallies. I think it is a younger, more socially-aware group that loves camping but finds the traditional "RV" distasteful on some level. I think free-spirited local units will help the WBCCI stagger on for awhile, but eventually technology and social networking will supplant the need for an "international" organization. In the long run, the Internet is a destablizing technology... and that's often a good thing. Great organizations are going to use this technology to better connect to membership. Obsolete organizations are going to write new rules and policies.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:20 PM   #28
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In the long, I don't think what the WBCCI does about Bob will matter much. The world is changing. Social and civic organizations are dropping like flies. Stop by a meeting of the local Rotary, or Lion's Club, or JayCees, or Optimists, or whatever you have in your neighborhood. In our area, the average age of members has to be over 60. The "younger generations" aren't nearly as interested in flags, rulebooks, name tags or organizational politics. The Internet generation exists on spontaneous, decentralized, fluid social networks. I expect the WBCCI will take decades to wind down. It's not about Bob, or the international leadership, or local units. It's about relevance. The Web 2.0 Airstream owner doesn't care about ribbons, or nametags, or rallies. I think it is a younger, more socially-aware group that loves camping but finds the traditional "RV" distasteful on some level. I think free-spirited local units will help the WBCCI stagger on for awhile, but eventually technology and social networking will supplant the need for an "international" organization. In the long run, the Internet is a destablizing technology... and that's often a good thing. Great organizations are going to use this technology to better connect to membership. Obsolete organizations are going to write new rules and policies.

Well said....
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