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Old 07-18-2009, 03:35 AM   #141
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Had understood that WBCCI nominating cmmte expected candidates to attend International for several years running, as well as the midwinter meeting. Perhaps I have it wrong.
No, you have that right... Missing the Boseman International (due to being called up for Active Military duty) was the excuse given for the VAC board violating the by-laws and "inserting" a new 1st V.P. ahead of Rob Baker.

Rob hauled his three young boys and his pregnant wife half way across the country to be at this International... but I guess that was not enough.
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Old 07-18-2009, 03:41 AM   #142
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Now imagine arranging for a virtual meeting with people from all over the continent with all kinds of different demands on their time (and all kinds of technology available to them, from primitive to advanced). I wouldn't want to be the one to make the arrangements!
Lynn,

I realize it would not be a simple task, but certainly much easier and much cheaper than renting a multi-million dollar convention center and feeding 400 volunteers for several weeks.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:26 AM   #143
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Lynn,

I realize it would not be a simple task, but certainly much easier and much cheaper than renting a multi-million dollar convention center and feeding 400 volunteers for several weeks.
But don't you see this as symptomatic of the dialog here? The IBT spends far too much money on meetings, and the only alternative is a virtual meeting?

Lynn
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:30 AM   #144
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Lynn,

I realize it would not be a simple task, but certainly much easier and much cheaper than renting a multi-million dollar convention center and feeding 400 volunteers for several weeks.
Airstream could design a virtual AirStream to go along with the virtual WBCCI. WBCCI could develop a roll playing game to add fun. As you progressed up the political ladder and made friends you could chose your parking spots, grass or non grass, type of flags your are allowed to fly, and the proper dress for meetings. As you gained power you would be allowed to file grievances against those who you don’t like and have manipulation power. Of course the game would be overpriced, not deliver what is promised, have a no warranty, be full of defects and have the plastic peeling off of the package. Coming to a Game Stop near you.
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Old 07-18-2009, 05:27 PM   #145
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I really do get a kick out of all the non-member postings here - it's actually pretty funny, and yet sad at the same time.
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What is so sad is that I am a former member, and just never got much benefit for my membership. I didn't meet anyone mean, I didn't have any fights I didn't get parked on the pavement, I joined with a open mind and had high hopes it just did not work out for me, maybe others will have better luck.

BTW I see you are confused, this is not the WBCCI site this is Airfourms everyone posting here is a member.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:20 PM   #146
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What is so sad is that I am a former member, and just never got much benefit for my membership. I didn't meet anyone mean, I didn't have any fights I didn't get parked on the pavement, I joined with a open mind and had high hopes it just did not work out for me, maybe others will have better luck.

BTW I see you are confused, this is not the WBCCI site this is Airfourms everyone posting here is a member.
Just curious is it a hobby of yours to twist what people say out of context or does that make you feel smarter?
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:32 PM   #147
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Just curious is it a hobby of yours to twist what people say out of context or does that make you feel smarter?
Please explain yourself. Did I post something you didn't like?
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:35 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Just curious is it a hobby of yours to twist what people say out of context or does that make you feel smarter?

Sorry doubled posted.
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Old 07-18-2009, 06:52 PM   #149
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No, it was meant for me, and I took no wrong turns. You can sales puff the WBCCI all you want but I will post my experience as I see fit. Yes you are correct about the Louisiana unit, I just stated it had no benefit for me.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:05 PM   #150
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Apparently in this 12 screen thread you're only reading your own posts then...

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Puff
OK, I will go with that.
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:28 PM   #151
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Old 07-18-2009, 07:46 PM   #152
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Red face this is why....

we dont join any clubs...we live in central florida...

and we just go camping on the weekends....no dues...no votes...no clothing requirements...just camping to get away from our everyday work lives..

this sounds like an HOA for airstream owners....what a loss.....
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:37 PM   #153
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As you all know Bob T was to have his dismissal and apology published in the Blue Beret.

Jerry Larson decided to over rule that direct order and findings of the committee will not be publishing citing confidentiality.

I hate to say here we go again but.................

Question can/should IP not follow the directive?

The EGC was aware of the bylaws and Roberts rules when directing the club to publish the memo, they had to know their order directing the publication would negate the confidentiality clause.

Should we email/call to ask Mr Larson to reconsider his position.

Ask Larson to reconsider? Why ask?

I'd say the entire WBCCI membership should DEMAND that the apology is made as originally DIRECTED by the committee.

What don't they understand about what should be a SIMPLE ruling?

What does this current leadership hope to gain by operating in the dark and not following SIMPLE directives? Maybe they don't want to publicly ADMIT they were in error to begin with when they suspended Bob and Harriet Thompson? Maybe they want to set precedent that they don't have to follow any ruling by any committee? Maybe they can look back and say, "Well, in Thompson's case we decided to more or less ignore the grievance committee and no one said a word so let's continue to do that into the future. After all, now we have *precedent* set." Maybe? Let's hope not, but ... you never know what lurks in other peoples deep-rooted thinking and their reasons why they act like they do.

Could it be that the leaders are trying to do whatever they please as long as they are themselves satisified they've done their best as far as they are concerned? I don't know if our club can afford to wait out all those in line that currently hold power over the masses. How long can clubs run a deficit budget before all the money in the bank is gone? Let's hope not ... but you never know now do you.

Operating in the sunshine so everyone can see and UNDERSTAND they why's and what-for's without question really IS a good policy for everyone don't you think?

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Old 07-21-2009, 09:18 PM   #154
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For Pete's sake give it a rest.

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Ask Larson to reconsider? Why ask?

I'd say the entire WBCCI membership should DEMAND that the apology is made as originally DIRECTED by the committee.

What don't they understand about what should be a SIMPLE ruling?

Tom M
Uh, Tom. . .

A few points. . .
  1. This issue is DARN NEAR A YEAR OLD and ancient history by now. How about letting sleeping dogs lie?
  2. Jerry Larson isn't president of the WBCCI any more. Perhaps you heard the WBCCI just had an International Rally and installed new officers. (The International also gave people who are inclined to bitch a whole new set of issues to bitch about.)
  3. And finally, the Hearing Board had the authority to uphold or reverse Bob Thompson's suspension, but aside from that, NO AUTHORITY TO ORDER ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING.
To briefly review these year-old issues, a WBCCI past president filed grievances against Bob Thompson, Region 1 President and Leo G arvey, Metro NY Unit President, for what most perceived to be political reasons.

The Ethics and Grievance committee suspended Bob Thompson and this set off a firestorm of protests from the membership. Realizing the disciplinary action was a mistake, then-WBCCI president Jerry Larson, in what I think was a statesmanlike move, appointed a Hearing Board of three trustees who could be expected to overturn the suspension, which they did.

Section 4 of the Bylaws gives the Hearing Board this power, and no other. I think it was nice of the Hearing Board to include an apology in their written opinion, but they had no authority to order it be published or anything else.

Chastened by the Bob Thompson outcome, the Ethics and Grievance committee wisely decided to dismiss the grievance against Leo G arvey, and at that point the case was closed.

So this whole Bob Thompson--No Apology thread has never had any legal or factual basis, and it's time to lay it to rest.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:39 AM   #155
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At that point it is the Appeals Committee that is in control, and the EC7, the IP, should have respected the actions dictated by that Appeals Committee and followed them through. THAT did not happen...
Leo,

Well, let’s look at what the rules actually say. Section 4 of the bylaws, defining the appeals process, is quoted below.

Quote:
By Laws, Section 4 (Blue Book pp 13 – 14)

A. Any member who has been expelled or suspended from membership in the international club or in a unit thereof as provided in section 2 or in section 3 of this article may, at any time within thirty (30) days following such expulsion or suspension, file a written notice of appeal with the WBCCI Board of Trustees. Such notice shall state with particularity the errors relied upon for reversal of the decision on such expulsion or suspension and may contain a demand for a hearing.

B. Upon receipt of a notice of appeal, it shall be the duty of the President of the WBCCI to appoint a hearing board composed of three members of the board of trustees, one of whom he shall name chairman.

C. The hearing board so appointed, in any case on which a hearing has not been demanded, shall mail to the complainant a copy of the said notice of appeal advising that he may file with it, at any time within fifteen (15) days, any written record of the proceedings against the accused member and any other written documents which he wishes the hearing board to consider. Upon the expiration of such fifteen (15) day period, the hearing board shall proceed to render a final judgment based upon the written record as presented to it. Such judgment shall be in writing and shall be in the form of a resolution.

D. In any case in which a hearing has been demanded, the hearing board shall schedule a date and place for such hearing and the accused member and the complainant shall be given at least thirty (30) days prior written notice of the date and place of such hearing and they shall be notified that they and their witnesses may present relevant testimony and file relevant documents in support of their positions.

E. At any such hearing, equal time shall be accorded the accused member and the complainant and each shall be entitled to question the other and his witnesses.

F. Upon conclusion of any such hearing, the hearing board, by resolution, shall render a judgment in writing based upon the written record and upon the evidence presented to it at such hearing. Such judgment may affirm, overrule or modify any judgment previously taken on the complaint and any such judgment so rendered shall be final and conclusive.

G. Any member expelled or suspended as provided in section 2 and 3 hereof who fails to file an appeal within the time herein stated, shall be deemed expelled or suspended, as the case may be, when such time shall have expired.
This clearly says that the Hearing Board (it’s Hearing Board, not Appeals Committee, by the way) . . . “can affirm, overturn, or modify any judgment previously taken on the complaint”.

I don’t see anywhere it says “at that point it is the Appeals Committee that is in control”, do you?

Nor do I see anyplace where it says that the Hearing Board can order anything published by anybody. Do you?

Now I must admit, I’m not a lawyer—or more to the point, a judge—with ability to read “emanations and penumbras” into laws to make them mean whatever they want them to mean. Maybe you have that ability?

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The reversal of one grievance, and the dismissal of the second, had nothing to do with one another. The second was denied purely on technical grounds, period.
Leo, do you think a few thousand emails and phone calls raising hell about Bob Thompson’s suspension, might, just might have made the Ethics and Grievance Committee and the EC7 a bit more cautious in dealing with the grievance against you? I kinda think so.

Granted, the fact that your written filing came on the letterhead of some ogre law firm ready and willing to rip out WBCCI’s living guts undoubtedly had a good bit to do with it. Fortunately, your lawyers are already up to speed on WBCCI so they’re undoubtedly ready to roll the Panzers on a moment’s notice against this year’s grievance. I’ll keep an eye out for a column of tanks heading across I-70 for Jackson Center.

Frankly, I’m getting mighty tired of endlessly hearing about this and every other bit of WBCCI petty politics. I haven’t decided yet whether to delete my bookmark for Airforums, let my WBCCI membership lapse, or both.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:42 AM   #156
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Tom,

Sorry about my testy response to your post last night. I hadn't noticed you were a newbie to Airstream Forums. Welcome to the forums and hope you get a more welcoming response to subsequent posts.

Nuvi
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:47 AM   #157
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shouldn't the club just be about having fun?

Can't we all just camp? Can't we all just get along? There is probably a rule against that...
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:25 AM   #158
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It would seem to me that everyone's position and opinion have been stated and restated, ad nauseum. The continuation of this fray is inexplicable, in my opinion, other than in the context of people simply liking to fight.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:39 AM   #159
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It seems to have the fascination of watching a train wreck in slow motion.

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Old 07-22-2009, 09:43 AM   #160
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This issue is DARN NEAR A YEAR OLD and ancient history by now. How about letting sleeping dogs lie?
It was very nice of Nuvite to apologize. As for the above statement, there is no statute of limitations on an apology. If a person has been wronged, they are owed an apology. Period. This is a moral obligation which is not obviated by time, distance, bureaucractic rules or organizational blame shifting.

I have no interest in the inner workings of the WBCCI. I don't know if Bob Thompson feels owed an apology. Here's the thing... until he gets one, there's a possibility people will keep talking. And while this might seem to serve no purpose, it does. Societies and culture enforce moral norms in two ways: admiration and shame. We generally embrace people who "do good." We generally shun people who "do bad." I understand this will provoke people who think we wrongly celebrate celebrity, etc., but consider this. What generally is the most common reaction to hitting a child in public? To telling a racist or sexist or homophobic joke? To leering or whistling at a woman? Actions that were socially acceptable 50 years ago are not socially acceptable now. It's not that we passed a law... mores changed and were enforced through admiration and/or shame.

Talking about someone (or an organization) that hasn't apologized is a form of social sanction. Reputation suffers. While admittedly an imperfect process, this is what makes civil society "civil." And if people "go on" to the point where the reaction to a perceived slight seems overwrought, well, then society sanctions those people for "not getting over it."

So it goes.
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