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Old 07-08-2009, 05:19 AM   #101
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Leo, let me see if I am getting this right, for I am somewhat simple. You don't have to actually own a vintage rig to be in the VAC you just need to send in the $20. And because the VAC wants bodies in it's numbers, it does not matter if you park a non vintage rig with the club dedicated to vintage units. Is that right?

Leo also, you understand these things better than me.... How does a guy come from no where and become president of the club? I had always thought you start as 3rd VP and move up until it is your turn. I am very confused about this. Could you explain that to me(or us)?
Frank,
This right from the Internet...

The Vintage Airstream Club

Member - (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 25 or more years old.

Associate - (WBCCI) Wally Byam Caravan Club International Member that owns a Recreational Vehicle Manufactured by Airstream that is 24 or less years old.

I do not onw a vintage unit, but I do believe you all have a legitimate gripe.
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Old 07-08-2009, 07:14 AM   #102
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Just keep sendin the money for the dues. Seems like you guys will never learn. IF Everyone withhold your dues money and see what kind of action ya get.See how long it takes for the higherups to realize there aint no money for them to FREE CAMP ON. This is just my opinion that I am intitled too. The club will never see me as a member as long as they are allowed to MAKE UP THE RULES AS THEY GO.Wally would turn over in his grave if he could see whats happened to his Caravan Club. From everything I have read ,he loved people and making friends, and loved campin,not Politics and Militurisum.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:54 AM   #103
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... it was actually never Wally's club.

Leo, how did the rules and bylaws change without a vote by the members? We had to vote on something as stupid as weather a forum could be made. Why can bylaws be changed without a vote?

And I still want to know how someone goes becomes president of the club after just one term in office.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:09 AM   #104
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People make mistakes

Leo,
To my knowledge, nothing has changed in the VAC Constitution or By-Law since the Don Perry days back in 2000-2001. Also, per the Constitution it takes a vote of 2/3rds or better to change the Constitution and I’ve never heard of any voting ever going on within the VAC.
As for parking of “non-vintage” units in the VAC parking area at International, it appears it has become more of a year-by-year decision based on which way the winds are blowing at the time. There should be a “hard-n-fast” rule in regards to this issue, if not you have problems arise like it did this past year. If the rule is, “there are no rules”, that’s fine to, just make that the “rule” and be done with it. I personally think, if you allow rigs newer than 25yrs to park in the vintage area, then the question becomes “What’s the point of having VINTAGE (VAC) parking in the first place?”
It looks to me what happened is simple:
“You had people who are “Regular” members (owning vintage rigs or owns a vintage rig and decided not to bring it to International) of the VAC that came to the International Rally from a Region or Unit. Along with them they have friends who are “Associate” members (not owning vintage rigs) from the same Region or Unit area that wanted to park along with their friends. And that’s what they did.”
Now the question becomes, is there a rule allowing or not allowing this to happen? But that is still “not the point”.
The point is this:
You have a person that was elected to the 2ndVP spot of the VAC. Because the 1stVP decided to “step-down” in that role, “Based on the VAC Constitution” the 2ndVP is then suppose to move up to the 1stVP spot, this did not happen for some reason and the VAC Constitution was “not” followed. The person whom was by-passed some would say has done more for the WBCCI and the VAC than any other member to get people to join the VAC, between the VAP, vintage caravans, Unit President of one of the largest Unit (made up of over 70% vintage rigs) always talking about how great club the WBCCI/VAC is to be a part of, etc… even to the point of joking about naming his new-born son “Wally”. So, if this had been you and after heading a caravan of “VINTAGE”10 trailers halfway across the USA to the International Rally, telling them the whole way how great it’s going to be, then to be stuck out to the side while “new” trailers are parked in the main VAC area to allows their friends to hang-out together and being told by the uppers, “That is how it goes” and “If you are upset, it is your problem, not mine” I can understand the rub.
People make mistakes, when you do, stuck it up and say you are sorry for the people you offended! No one is perfect, thus the reason for the words “Sorry, I screwed up, I’ll try my best not to let it happen again”.
The reason why we have a VAC Constitution is to prevent things like this from happening; either follow it or throw it in the trash and let every man fend for himself.
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:02 AM   #105
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I rejoined WBCCI solely to be part of the rocking WDCU. I'll support my local camping club and enjoy rallying with them whenever possible. I'll definitely contribute to anything that keeps PeeWee active as a guest at any WDCU rally whether I can be there or not.

I doubt that I will ever go to an International. I really don't want to sink into the seemingly endless mire of politics and people milking the IBC's treasury for free camping while failing to serve the needs of the membership at large. HOWEVER, if there's a WDCU or forums rally happening the same week as the international you can bet I'll be spending my time, energy and money there instead.

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Old 07-08-2009, 09:39 PM   #106
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Parking,

Hmm, the VAC Prez, Veeps, had NO control over the parking situation on the grass. There were also a number of VAC rigs that showed up without prior reservations at the pre rally. So, its a little tough to plan for more spaces when you don't know your total numbers! The WBCCI Parking Committee had issues of their own and they were confused which added to this mess. There were already newer airstreams parked on the grass before we got there. Who they were, who knows? The area of grass that was NOT used closest to the pavement was not used for a good reason:::, it was prone to flooding during heavy downpours.
Majority of trailers parked on the grass were 30 amp, except for the back row against the trees was 3 amp.

The vagrant in the tent on site was an Alliant Event Center issue, not WBCCI.

Happy Hour:

If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain.

Kid Entertainment.

Teasing other members pets is NOT entertainment. If I did that as a kid 40 years ago, my Dad would have planted me!!

General Meeting.

Discussion was put forth to the general membership who showed up, about updating the VAC constitution and bylaws to conform with the main WBCCI constitution and bylaws. Membership had a vote. This update was previously published and available. This is a requirement of "constitutional housekeeping" that must occur every few years.

Officers:

Members have the right to nominate candidates from the floor.

Parking in the grass;

Pee Wee was representing the WDCU and was on the grass. And, Michael DePraida, the "Tee shirt Vendor, WDCU member was on the GRASS, in his mid to late 90's model Excella

A whole lot of whining here, any of us could have been parked on pavement.

Less bugs comes with less grass and a cleaner rig.
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:02 PM   #107
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Ya Leo, it was great seeing you!!, Mostly, this last meeting was to update our bylaws etc, to conform with WBCCI. Mostly, this meeting was to clarify what each VAC office position duties are. We had to conform with HQ's in all respects.

Leo, the bottom line is, the VAC Officers have NO power, NO vote with IBT, and aren't invited to the winter IBT. Have no real meaningful discussions with the IBT. VAC Officers are just volunteer figureheads. We are a club within the MAIN club. WBCCI has the reins, and VAC has no say where we park .its all up to the WBCCI, they can choose to no longer have a vintage section. It nice they allow us some latitude to do so, its good PR. We are all airstreamers and that's it. Some of us just happen to have older trailers and motorhomes and thats great to keep the vintage rigs on the road.
We stopped in Gillette on the way home to see what the Camplex was about. Totally awesome venue with full hookups for the masses with 15,30,50 amp shore power, water and sewer. Around trip driving day for each to and from Devil's Tower, the Black Hills, Mt Rushmore, Custer State Park, Sturgis, Deadwood, Lead, South Dakota.
Heading west, an hour and 1/2 to Sheridan, Wyo where at King Western Saddlery is a museum attached to the store with decades of western art, fire arms, tack etc on display.
The BigHorns are not too far as well.

Gillette, the sharpest town in the West!!
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Old 07-09-2009, 04:14 AM   #108
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Parking,

Hmm, the VAC Prez, Veeps, had NO control over the parking situation on the grass. There were also a number of VAC rigs that showed up without prior reservations at the pre rally. So, its a little tough to plan for more spaces when you don't know your total numbers! The WBCCI Parking Committee had issues of their own and they were confused which added to this mess. There were already newer airstreams parked on the grass before we got there. Who they were, who knows? The area of grass that was NOT used closest to the pavement was not used for a good reason:::, it was prone to flooding during heavy downpours.
Majority of trailers parked on the grass were 30 amp, except for the back row against the trees was 3 amp.

The new Airstreams were placed by Airstream. There were three of them. One was a "B" van and no one slept in it ever. Another was used for three days.


The vagrant in the tent on site was an Alliant Event Center issue, not WBCCI.

Either was the warning of numerous thefts that took place. It was nice to informed of that right after getting out of the truck.


Happy Hour:

If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain.

This is what I contributed, twice...
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it took an hour and a half to prepare. I also served aged cheddar with apple slices and grapes one evening. The rest of the time I was out seeing Wisconsin. Opening a bag of chips is about as lame as it gets. A little caring could be involved.

Kid Entertainment.

Teasing other members pets is NOT entertainment. If I did that as a kid 40 years ago, my Dad would have planted me!!

There was zero entertainment for the kids. Nothing for them to do. How hard would it have been to rent a moon bounce or something similar? The youth activities all required a parent to drive them somewhere so one was better off going on their own schedule. As far as teasing someone's dog, I never saw any of that. To be honest, I left my dog at home. I think a rally is not the proper place for a dog.


General Meeting.

Discussion was put forth to the general membership who showed up, about updating the VAC constitution and bylaws to conform with the main WBCCI constitution and bylaws. Membership had a vote. This update was previously published and available. This is a requirement of "constitutional housekeeping" that must occur every few years.

Maybe more of the general membership might have shown up had they know that the bylaws were going to be changed. The update might have been published, but it was never made available to me or anyone I know.

Officers:

Members have the right to nominate candidates from the floor.

Do they also have the right to bump someone out of the lineup? Do they have the right to insert a candidate into 1st VP that has not served previously? This took place and was not a decision of the general membership, it was done within the top tiers of the clubs leadership. This was a clear violation of the bylaws of the club. This needs to be corrected right away and in a serious way.

Parking in the grass;

Pee Wee was representing the WDCU and was on the grass. And, Michael DePraida, the "Tee shirt Vendor, WDCU member was on the GRASS, in his mid to late 90's model Excella

There were also other WDCU members you forgot to mention that were camped on the grass. None of them came with us on the caravan. Many member chose our unit over being a MAL. You see we are a progressive unit that allows online voting and does not require people to be there in person. This option works well for those people full timing like Michael and many others. Pee Wee is a WDCU honorary lifetime member. We are able to recognize what he has done for the club as a whole. I personally flew him in so everyone could enjoy the experience of learning from his travels and life experiences. He lived with me for four days while we caravanned out to Madison. I took care of making sure he had everything he needed during that time and while he was at the rally. Airstream spotted a trailer for him in the Vintage section at his request so he could be a part of the club and be accessible to everyone.

A whole lot of whining here, any of us could have been parked on pavement.

What would you know, you were on the grass...

Less bugs comes with less grass and a cleaner rig.
You could have moved, but then you would not have been with the club.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:12 AM   #109
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Frank, I knew this would be a mess making any kind of response. YOur complaint should be sent to WBCCI HQ since they were the ones who determined where and how many 3 amps were to be placed. With resignations of previously mentioned VAC VEEP set the stage for Scott to be thrust into where he is. Shari Davis also had a similar set of circumstances, for which she had her bitchy complaints tossed at her.
The rally is what you make of it, and choices were made to be miserable, no one can help that.
I am sorry, but to get this club to change we need all participants to participate to facilitate it and whining and crying and photograph taking to make a point isn't it.
Mr Baker choose not to climb the ladder of the Veeps. A Veep resigned last year and he should have moved up. But he chose not to. And if he were to have moved up this year, he already had said he wasn't going to Gillette. So, how do you fill this vaccuum? The next one in line?? If you have never been to an International, how the heck are you are going to have the experience to plan or lead?
YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET VOLUNTEERS TO BE AN OFFICER?? AND TAKE THIS KIND OF NONSENSE FROM OUR OWN????? Some of us sat with Shari Davis in Perry 2 years after the IBT lit into her while she was in tears for no fault of her own..
Come on, we are Airstreamers with old and new trailers. Wally would have not tolerated this crap. Caveat: The club was not Wally's nor his idea.
Why not stand up and join in and volunteer to be a parcipating member of the club and help make some improvements.

With the cost of the Alliant Center, generators, pipes for water etc, this rally in Madison ran in the hole big time. We nned many more than we had to break even. When we went trailering when I was a kid, my parents would never have conceived the idea of having us kids entertained. We brought our own, cards, Jarts, walked the dog, looked for interesting rocks, bugs, etc. We played and had a great time and didn't have water slide, or air mattress to jump on. That part of the problem, kids don't know how to entertain themselves.

And yes, we had to tell some kids several times to stop harrassing our dogs. I don't know who they belonged to (parents not around), and I could have taken photos too, but didn't. It wasn't worth my time and effort. I had better things to do with me time.

Remember also, that it was not too long ago, that Internationals had no water, no sewer, no power to the rally. These are Airstreams and fully self contained.

Try Gillette, everyone will be even with the same kind of site for every Airstream. No fooling, there are over 1600 identical sites. Fleetwood was just there. The Camplex is Campbell County's fairgrounds.
We stopped and checked it out after leaving Madison.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:28 AM   #110
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Negative

Excuse me but I was offered to move up to 1st VP last year and accepted it saying how great it would be to be WDCU President one year and VAC President the next.. however, I was recalled to Active Duty as a LtCol in the Marine Corps.. which took precident over last year's Bozeman Rally.. I was signed up to go... since I was asked to move up and said yes, I thought (since I was not there due to Active Duty) that I would be 1st VP and was going to be at Madison.. that I'd be 1st VP... hell I even told numerous people I would be.... and if I was Pres while in Gillette, I would have definately been there... as a VAC VP, I never knew Scott was put ahead of me from no where until the entire membership got the notice (you'd think as a VP I would have been asked about Scott but "No" I wasn't)... so when you all found out that Scott was 1st VP and I was 2nd... that is when found out as well... I know it's all about never attending an International.. but seriously.. I've thrown numerous rallies and as a Naval Academy grad and Marine, I think I could have handled the task at hand... So, Thanks Paul for the support... I have lived and breathed WBCCI for the past 9 years...just ask my wife Zoe'

But since I was treated like I was (not even the respect to let me know Scott was moving ahead as a VP on the board), and people felt the way they do about International attendance, I felt not part of the VAC team and don't feel like it myself.... and knowing a trip to Gillette for not feeling like I belong, I asked myself "Why do I want to spend $2000 for a trip where people could care less about the rules and respect" so YES - I decided to step down... I guess it's all my "Mr. Baker" fault to begin with...

Have fun!

Rob

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Frank, I knew this would be a mess making any kind of response. With resignations of previously mentioned VAC VEEP set the stage for Scott to be thrust into where he is. Shari Davis also had a similar set of circumstances, for which she had her bitchy complaints tossed at her.
The rally is what you make of it, and choices were made to be miserable, no one can help that.
I am sorry, but to get this club to change we need all participants to participate to facilitate it and whining and crying and photograph taking to make a point isn't it.
Mr Baker choose not to climb the ladder of the Veeps. A Veep resigned last year and he should have moved up. But he chose not to. And if he were to have moved up this year, he already had said he wasn't going to Gillette. Sp, how do you fill this vaccuum? If you have never been to an International,. how the heck are you are going to have the experience lead?
YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET VOLUNTEERS TO BE AN OFFICER AND TAKE THIS KIND OF ABUSE FROM OUR OWN????? Some of us sat with Shari Davis in Perry 2 years after the IBT lit into her while she was in tear for no fault of her own..
Come on, we are Airstreamers with old and new trailers.
Why not stand up and join in and volunteer to be a parcipating member of the club and help make some improvements.


Remember also, that it was not too long ago, that Internationals had no water, no sewer, no power to the rally. These are Airstreams and fully self contained.

Sorry you had a bad time. Try Gillette, everyone will be even with the same kind of site for every Airstream.
We stopped and checked it out after leaving Madison.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:48 AM   #111
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We stopped in Gillette on the way home to see what the Camplex was about. Totally awesome venue with full hookups for the masses with 15,30,50 amp shore power, water and sewer.
...but worth $500 for the week? not in my book.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:01 AM   #112
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Happy Hour:

If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain.
We brought a huge BOSS Sub from the local COPPS that we sliced into about a dozen mini sandwiches... which was gone in 60 seconds the first night..

The second night we brought over baked (in our vintage oven) french bread pizza..

Another night we brough sliced Madison cheese and crackers...

After that I said, 'Why bother.. peopel aren't pulling their weight here"
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:18 AM   #113
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sorry for you

I'm right up there with Rob and Frank in being really angry with how we were treated at International. While I think the parking snafu showed poor planning and control, I know that sometimes things just happen. But what upset me was the utter lack of concern for anything but their own comfort on the part of our outgoing and incoming presidents. They didn't lift a finger to try to make things better for us. The VAC excluded us and ignored us throughout the rally. For instance, we heard about a campfire the next day.

I am so happy to be part of the WDCU. We help each other out at every opportunity - Rob, Frank and Marc all helped me with problems I had with my trailer, and we all worked together to figure out how to set up our awnings on asphalt. We had meals together, and fun together.

If your camping experience is anemic happy hours, expecting everyone to fend for themselves, and not giving a rap about anything but your own experience, then I am sorry for you.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:28 AM   #114
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Rob,

I only used the "Mister" title out of respect. I have never met you. So sorry, you took offense. We have communications trouble here. No one had responded to these allegations, I tried my best. Obviously some of my iinformation about officer ascent was incorrect. I opologize for that.

The bottom line is this in my eyes. Volunteers, no matter who they are, are just that. The "International' is basically a once a year week long business meeting for the club. Comraderie, entertainment, etc is just an extra for this week long business convention.

It may come to pass in the future with escalating costs, the rally will be dry camping only for all. The generator rental the International incurs and maintenance is a HUGE cost to WBCCI.


I quit now, since everything I will say a fault will be found, so safe travels
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:42 AM   #115
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Paul, Frank, Rob, and any others that I may have missed.

Many things have been brought up in this thread. A few of which I will attempt to answer.

I am not a regular reader of AirForums, and would never have found this exchange let alone read through it if it weren’t for a VAC member sending me a link. Frankly, I find the sheer size of AirForums quite intimidating, but am attempting to use it to bring a little understanding…and hopefully some peace.

#1 I apologize to those who believe that I offended them, or let them down. I am merely human and I make mistakes. I have said things that I would take back if I could. I have made decisions that turned out to be bad ones. All I can do is to promise that I will do the best job that I can.

#2 Yes, the VAC Constitution and Bylaws were updated this year. Before International the president snail-mailed each VAC member a letter. In it he explained that at the upcoming board meeting we would be voting on the updated Constitution and Bylaws. He provided links to both the old and the proposed new. If memory serves me (and it doesn’t always) printed copies were handed out at both the board and membership meetings prior to the vote. In my viewpoint the main changes were to better spell out the board’s responsibilities. One of the biggest ones being attending the board meetings They can be seen at: http://www.nwflorida.net/vaccbl.pdf

#3 Paul is correct. The parking of non vintage trailers with the VAC is more of a year-by-year decision. We do not have a rule about it. To my knowledge the first instance of this was at the Lansing International in ‘04 when the current VAC president, Tom Howarth showed up in a non-vintage Airstream motor home. The frame on his ‘50’s Flying Cloud had cracked and was no longer road worthy. Yes, it raised some eyebrows, but what were we supposed to do, banish the club’s president? As for this year, after consulting with the VAC board, I made the decision to allow all VAC MEMBERS to park together in the vintage section, whether or not they brought their vintage trailer to the rally. I would like to think that the VAC is about including people, not excluding them.

#4 About my becoming 1st VP without first being 2nd or 3rd. I cannot speak with full authority, because I was not present in Bozeman, neither was Rob Baker, the 2nd VP. But here is what I believe to have happened. The 3rd VP dropped out. The 2nd VP had never been able to make an International Rally. I was under the assumption that he was requesting to NOT advance to 1st since he had not previously seen first hand what happens at International. I did not blame him as I know that it is difficult to fill a roll that you have never seen modeled. The board was scrambling to fill both 1st and 3rd VP spots. At that time I had been a member of the VAC for 12 years, attended 8 International Rallies, and until recently, been the Membership Chairman for more years than I care to remember. I understand the need to volunteer, but I never aspired to get more involved. I had been urged on more than one occasion to run for VP, but turned them down. Repeatedly. Personally, I hate politics. I dislike meetings and hate being in charge of them. I believe that rules beyond being a good neighbor should be unnecessary. Like many of you, I just want to camp in peace. If I can do it with friends, all the better. I relented my stand against being a VP because a 3rd was found, but only if I accepted 1st. For the perceived good of the VAC I accepted the position. To the best of my knowledge at that time everything was on the up and up.

#5 Parking at International. I only had so much say in things. Frankly the head of parking only had so much say. Volunteers laid a water line in such a manner to cut off access to several sites. If they were paid workers, we would have had a case to have them pull it up and re-lay it, but they were volunteers. Electric. In past years 70-90% of vintage opted for 30 amp. This year it ended up being less than 50%. When the head of parking learned that vintage had FAR fewer registrations for 30 amp sites than expected, several more sites were gobbled up. On paper it all worked, they had so many 30 amps sites sold and they had wired that many sites. But at the very end it was realized that they had set aside too many of them in the vintage section. It is my belief that the electric crew simply did not have the time to rearrange/rewire things to park these non-vintage people (who paid for 30 amp sites) anyplace else. They had paid for a 30 amp site. The grassy area was the only place left that had any. That is why non-VAC people were parked on the grass. To top it off it was decided (I do not know by whom) that we could not park in the 4th row due to flooding that occurred before our arrival. They could not jam us in closer together without giving the fire martial a fit. So what started out as a more than ample area for vintage, ended up being inadequate. When our caravan arrived in the bull-pen I was informed that some of our members would be parked over in the gravel section with the dogs and generators. Talk about being separated! I was able to convince him to park us in proximity to each other. So I do apologize for getting people’s hopes up by telling them that most of us would end up on the grass. This is, I believe, the crux of the matter. People had hopes of a grassy area. We were hot and tired. When things did not turn out as we had all hoped almost all of us got grumpy. I tend to be a person who goes with the flow. I rarely complain. I was, and still am, inadequate when it comes to handling people’s complaints. Come to me with an idea how to improve things, I’m all over it. Come to me to complain and I fumble the ball, BIG TIME. Once again, sorry, I will try to do better in the future.

However, with all the complaining that was going on, there was one woman, a first timer who was brand new to WBCCI. She also had to park on the asphalt. She tended to be a loner, so I checked on her several times throughout the rally. She was determined to have a good time, and she was not going to let the circumstances get her down. I believe that out of everyone in the VAC, she, not I or anyone else at the rally, best represented Wally Byam and his ideals.

Scott Scheuermann, the reluctant.
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:33 AM   #116
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Parking, Hmm, the VAC Prez, Veeps, had NO control over the parking situation on the grass. There were also a number of VAC rigs that showed up without prior reservations at the pre rally. So, its a little tough to plan for more spaces when you don't know your total numbers! The WBCCI Parking Committee had issues of their own and they were confused which added to this mess. There were already newer airstreams parked on the grass before we got there. Who they were, who knows? The area of grass that was NOT used closest to the pavement was not used for a good reason:::, it was prone to flooding during heavy downpours. Majority of trailers parked on the grass were 30 amp, except for the back row against the trees was 3 amp
Most everyone was preregistered… why is it so hard to plan?


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The vagrant in the tent on site was an Alliant Event Center issue, not WBCCI.
If I’m hosting 2000 of my club members… I’d make it my issue. They had weeks to clear this guy out.

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Happy Hour: If the fair was small and unsatisfying, what was your contribution? If nothing, there is no room to complain
This was a reflection of the effort put forth… I prefer to camp with folks that “Care enough to Share” The International rally did not score highly on this account.

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Kid Entertainment. Teasing other members pets is NOT entertainment. If I did that as a kid 40 years ago, my Dad would have planted me!!
Nothing has changed in 40 years… none of the 20+ kids in our group were teasing your pets… or they would have gotten “planted” themselves. Must have been kids of some of those folks to busy polishing their shiny trailers to mind their kids.

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Originally Posted by Coloradobus View Post
A whole lot of whining here…
No whining… just pointing out the circumstances so that maybe future first timers can have a realistic picture of what to expect for their $500 +/-. As I’ve said, in my book, it is not even close to worth what I paid to bring my family.

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With resignations of previously mentioned VAC VEEP set the stage for Scott to be thrust into where he is..
I don’t recall reading any “thrusting procedure” in the bylaws. As I read it, if the 1st VP resigns, the 2nd VP moves to 1st and on down the line. If Scott was to be “thrust” anywhere it should have been to 3rd VP.

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YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO GET VOLUNTEERS TO BE AN OFFICER?? AND TAKE THIS KIND OF NONSENSE FROM OUR OWN?????
What sort of “NONSENSE” are you referring to? We asked a few simple questions in a polite manner and were answered with an “I don’t care” attitude. We don’t need officers like that. If the officers aren’t in place to have concern for the membership, then why are they there?


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Why not stand up and join in and volunteer to be a participating member of the club and help make some improvements.
We all participate every time we camp… Just as PeeWee told me… the purpose of the club is to “simply have fun” As far as improvements… we offered our feedback to our leadership and were told nothing can be done to improve upon the experience. This seems to be the never-ending mantra for those in a position to do something about it and the folks with the ability to make improvements get shoved aside.


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With the cost of the Alliant Center, generators, pipes for water etc, this rally in Madison ran in the hole big time.
Yeah! … and why is it that we needed to hold the rally at a multi-million dollar convention center? After all, we are a Camping Club.

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Originally Posted by Coloradobus View Post
Remember also, that it was not too long ago, that Internationals had no water, no sewer, no power to the rally. These are Airstreams and fully self contained.
Right… probably a much better time back then too. I often think this club has forgotten whence it came… I’m glad we have PeeWee to remind us.
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:37 AM   #117
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Thanks Scott.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:26 AM   #118
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Thumbs up Thank You

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However, with all the complaining that was going on, there was one woman, a first timer who was brand new to WBCCI. She also had to park on the asphalt. She tended to be a loner, so I checked on her several times throughout the rally. She was determined to have a good time, and she was not going to let the circumstances get her down. I believe that out of everyone in the VAC, she, not I or anyone else at the rally, best represented Wally Byam and his ideals.
Scott,

Firstly, thanks for the post and thanks for the apology. Let me also apologize to you, as it was none of our intent to place blame for the situation on you. The parkers told us to take it up with our leadership and you, Herb and Dallas were it. I assure you that just a little empathy would have gone a long way.

I will also assure you that we all made the best of the circumstances and had a fantastic time in spite of them. Should we ever find ourselves camping together in the future, you and your family are more than welcome to join us for meal and conversation... it's the way we camp - all are welcome.

As far as volunteering and improvements... I think you will find that if folks see their efforts making an impact you will find a wealth of help offered.

Good Luck... and if you're ever looking for opinions... as you know I'm more than willing to offer mine.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:58 PM   #119
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Offering insight...

I wasn't at International this year so I can't speak to many of the issues brought forth in this thread – it looks like Scott did a good job of addressing those. I have however, been emailed by several posters asking for some insight into past Board activities. It is not my intention to go point-by-point through the issues of this thread nor the emails I have received – I don't have the time to adequately reply to each of you individually point-by-point, I have decided instead to post here to give some big picture perspective of the last couple of years from my viewpoint. I hope that the readers of this post will give me the courtesy of not picking at my every word, but reading what I have posted as it is intended – as insight.

As some of you may or may not be aware, there were several years of uneasiness between the IBT & VAC Board primarily focused on the IBT's perception of the VAC's apparent apathy towards them by disregarding the IBT Seminar/Meetings which take place each year prior to the “official” start of the rally itself. Whether this perception was actual or not is up to the individuals involved - but the perception was actual. Both in Springfield and Salem issues arose that caused the necessity of one-on-one meetings with IBT & VAC Board members to try & resolve them – I can assure you, those meetings were NOT fun. It was my goal as a VAC Board member to try and do what I could do to heal the rift and to revise this perception. We as VAC members are after all a very active part of the WBCCI and it is the responsibility of the Intra-Club to uphold our end of the bargain by fulfilling our obligation of presenting the annual report in front of the IBT at the Seminar & Meeting each year. There had been a pattern for several years of the President not attending the rally during "their year"and the 1st VP taking over both their own responsibilities (VAC Gathering, Parade, 2nd Board Meeting) and the President's (Annual Report, 1st Board Meeting, Membership Meeting) which was a HUGE burden. I know, I did it in Perry and others had done it before me.

One of the biggest issues that centered around my experience in Perry in front of the IBT, was the need for there to be continuity of Board Members in attendance at International. Unfortunately, there was not even a quorum of VAC Board Members in attendance at this rally for various reasons - many justified. At Perry, the Board members that were present, discussed that the VAC By-Laws had not been fulfilled with regards to the on-going responsibility of updating them every five years. They hadn't been updated since 2000/01 and some of the issues that we as an Intra-Club were then facing had possibly resulted because of this. However due to the lack of a quorum of Board Members (only 3 Board Members were there – 4 are required) there could not be an official Board Meeting so they were discussed casually.

The VAC Board Meeting & Membership Meeting for the year was postponed until August when a quorum of Board Members could be present. The old By-Laws had no provision for holding a Board Meeting via any other means than "in person" at International - so a "Special Meeting" was called (which was allowed in the By-Laws). That "Special Meeting" happened to occur at the RMVAC Rally because it was the next opportunity to have a gathering of enough VAC Board Members & a large number of VAC Members to conduct the Business Meeting. This was all documented in the Board & Membership Meeting Minutes which were distributed and made available to all. This is actually the meeting where the 07/08 Board was officially installed - which included Rob as 3rd VP. It was in Perry where the discussions of written Job Descriptions began and they were continued in Breckenridge (RMVAC Rally Special Board Meeting) and Bozeman, as well as throughout the year amongst the Board.

One of the goals of the 07/08 & 08/09 Boards was to update the Job Descriptions & By-Laws so all Board Members, Membership Chairpersons and VAC Members would have a better understanding of what was expected of the various volunteer positions. One of the biggest issues was the lack of understanding that it is the Board's responsibility to attend the International Rally so Business can be conducted. These preliminary job descriptions were discussed at both the Board & Membership Meetings in Bozeman which are open for the entire membership to attend. Both during the 07/08 and 08/09 years, the job descriptions were distributed several times by both myself & Ed Emerick via email for discussion and comments by the Board – most email requests for comments went unanswered or with short “Looks good!” types of replies.

Written into the job descriptions, it was made clear what the various Board Member's & Chairperson's responsibilities were rather than just going with the flow and passing them down verbally (if at all) as had been done previously. In summary (the full descriptions are available in the link Herb Spies provided), the President's primary responsibility is to be the liaison to the IBT representing the VAC at the IBT Meetings, conducting the VAC Board and Business Meetings during their Presidency. This means that by assuming the position of 1st VP/President you have to in essence commit to attending 2 International Rallies in a row - the 1st being your 1st VP/Pres year and the 2nd being your Pres/PP year. It was also discussed at length several times in emails & person the likely inability of the 1st VP to be able to conduct the 2nd Board Meeting at their 1st International without never having been to an International prior to see how things were done. I was a big proponent of this having just experienced the scorn of the IBT in Perry - if I had never been to an International before I would have been even more rattled by the goings-on than I was and would have most likely walked away.

So, with this being the case and the Job Descriptions already in the approval process by the Board, these were taken into account in the decision to recommend that Rob be given another year to have the opportunity to attend an International prior to his becoming 1st VP. Scott, having been to many Internationals, was (and is) eminently qualified to fulfill the 1st VP position in order to give Rob another chance to get up to speed. Unfortunately, this decision appears to not have been communicated clearly enough in the Board Meeting Minutes post-Bozeman and it was not made clear to Rob what had transpired. Part of this is the exact symptom of the problem - without being present at the Board Meetings and only receiving the minutes afterwards, how can anyone fully grasp what takes place? Thus the importance of Board Meetings with the majority of Board Members in attendance. Hindsight being what it is, there should have been a more direct conversation with Rob one-on-one to discuss the options & decision, but it didn't happen. For that I think we are all sorry. While we have never met, I believe that Rob is more than qualified to be on the VAC Board as an Officer – however without the first-hand “International Experience” it makes for a very difficult transition into 1st VP/President. Had this confusion & these questions surfaced through better communication earlier, I trust that Rob would not have felt the need to resign.

As I understand it, this year in Madison, at the Board and General Membership Meetings – the new By-Laws which include the Job Descriptions, were voted on and approved by the members. So hopefully, this is a start towards better communication for the future.

One last additional point of clarity I do want to make is that the 2/3's vote that is required to obtain approval of Constitution/By-Law changes is “2/3's of the members present at the Annual Business Meeting” not 2/3's of the entire membership (Article XI, Sec. 1 VAC By-Laws 2000/01) and in order to make “a quorum to hold the Annual Business Meeting or any additional business meeting, shall not be less than 10% of the VAC Members attending the (International) Rally”. (Article V, Sec. 4 VAC By-Laws 2000/01) not a specific number of members in total.

Like I said, my comments here are not intended to bring 100% clarity to the last 2-3 years, it's just some additional information regarding the past that may be helpful.

Shari
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Old 07-09-2009, 02:43 PM   #120
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Question Time to stop

Isn't it time to put this subject to bed? You either want to be in the club or you don't.
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