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Old 11-17-2008, 10:37 PM   #21
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Talking Crazy Horse & Sitting Bull

Or as we know them "Bob & Leo"....

Custer never admitted he was wrong, did he? But what remains of Custer's reputation today? He's seen to be an arrogant vainglorious showoff who forgot the most basic rules of tactics:
  • know your enemy
  • never underestimate their numbers, commitment or skills
  • all other things being equal, choose the high ground (blew that one BIG TIME)
Did you know his troops called Custer "old iron ass" because he could stay in the saddle and endure any hardship longer than his men could? Just had one problem - arrogance, and a tendency to rate opponents as "inferiors."

Tonight the scalp of the yellow-hair hangs in from the lodgepole of Crazy Horse's tent. The stick from the butt of the yellow-hair was used by Sitting Bull to count coup. Light the campfires, open a bottle of firewater, dance under the moon.

I'm crawling into bed with a glass of Suxx (an excellent Australian red wine). Nite all. Paula
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:51 AM   #22
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Actually I agree about moving on. Organize to change it, or quit the organization, or don't join.

Gene
It's a shame really Gene, when people who might consider joining are left with a negative impression from what they read or hear on the web, and decide not to join. The real heart of WBCCI is at the unit level. Some units are great, some not. I happen to be part of the Watchung NJ unit, which is a great group of people. The biggies at international do need to make changes, and sacking dissenting voices is just wrong. But I really think that the web tends to let issues take on a life of their own, They never die, and no resolution is adequate to all. If I was not a member, and all i knew was what I read on this or even the WBCCI forums, I would never join. I do think though, that there are thousands of members who enjoy the club for what it is, a chance for like minded individuals to get together, and I'm glad to be a member. George.
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:19 PM   #23
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It's a shame really Gene, when people who might consider joining are left with a negative impression from what they read or hear on the web, and decide not to join.
Well put George. If it were not for being a WBCCI member we would not have camped in some amazing places that the club gains special access to. Metro NY's Ft Schulyer Rally, Watchung NJ Unit's West Point Rally, WDCU's Cherry Blossom Rally on Rogers Farm, etc. Beside the excellent camaraderie, camping at these spots are worth the price of admission to the WBCCI alone.

Check out last months West Point Rally slide show here....


west point
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:21 PM   #24
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George, I appreciate what you're saying and I'm sure you and the Wachung group are dedicated members seeking change.

Do I need to join another organization with problems at the top? My life is full enough. Does every organization need some changes? Yes, some more than others. I am involved in trying to reform an organization that needs some serious changes and thus, I know how hard that is and how much of my time it takes. I understand the Four Corners Unit is quite informal and would be a plus in any decision I make at another time.

Do I want my money, especially during difficult economic times, to go to an organization with methods at the top that I don't like? No. We get scores of requests to join organizations and give money to worthwhile charities every week—we have to make tough decisions where to contribute and what to join. I wish I had unlimited funds, but don't.

I realize that the impression one gets from what is posted can be distorted. It could be that 10 or 20 unhappy WBCCI members make it sound like hundreds are unhappy, but it could also mean that they are the top of the iceberg—most people do not complain, they vote with their feet out the door. I understand many people have left the organization over the years and though I don't know the numbers, that tells me something.

So, for the time being, it doesn't work for me. I'm sure there are good local units and perhaps as the "loyal opposition" they can organize to make the changes necessary to make the WBCCI relevant to Airstream owners in the present. I wish you all luck. There are major changes occurring now in how things are organized (See David Carr's column in the New York Times for Nov. 10, 2008, page B1—go to the Times' website and search for David Carr and the article on how Obama changed how to organize and mobilize) and a lot of it is about using the internet. The older models, all of which I am very familiar and comfortable with, are not working now and I am as confused by new ways of doing things as anyone. The Forum is part of change and is gradually supplanting WBCCI it seems.

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Old 11-19-2008, 03:24 AM   #25
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First off.... Paula, I am so glad you joined us. I promise that at your next event I will be your personal welcoming committee. I promise you will feel like you are with family. The only thing you will not like about the WDCU is the time between rallies.

Second ... Gene, I hope you change your mind. I think you will find the politics up top to be something to just laugh at.

Third.... Ed, I want to sit under the awning and have a cold beer or six with YOU.

Fourth... Bill you too....

Fifth and final.... I had my undies in a bunch over this suspension thing. It pissed me off big time and I jumped on the "vote with my feet" band wagon. I wrote Mr. Larson a letter stating my displeasure with the ITB actions and requested he over rule the suspension for the sake of the club stability. I also stated that if further suspensions were to take place (Leo) that I would resign from the club. I was sent a somewhat form letter as many others were. However, some one listened. I hope it was not appeasement.
At the WDCU installation rally there were many discussions of what we (our unit) should do and what the unit members wanted to do to proceed. A few of us were proposing holding our dues until the mess was straightened out. But in our unit a voice of reason came forth. I am not sure exactly who it was but someone said, "I think we have fun doing what we do as a unit. Nothing is broke here. Let's just keep doing what we do and show them how fun it can be." And everyone seemed very comfortable with that.
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:34 AM   #26
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I thought long and hard about this statement - night shift gives me that opportunity. What I came up with is that as long as people say that - its all well at the unit level so there are no problems. Well, that is just not the case.
Bob was almost thrown out of the club just for speaking his mind. That was overruled and furthermore a few steps were to be taken, including publishing in the Blue Beret an apology to Bob and his wife. That hasn't happened - in fact, the IBT has not completed any of the tasks they were requested to do when this was overturned in the first place to the best of my knowledge.
To ignore what has happened is running around with blinders on.
Yes, go out and have fun. But remember, that is not enough to keep the club alive. You can't just ignore what the leadership is doing while you are out there having fun. Because that is how a name change was almost run through and that is how off brand products were almost allowed into the club.
Kicking somebody out is serious stuff and will not go away by pretending the situation didn't happen.
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:59 PM   #27
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In the long, I don't think what the WBCCI does about Bob will matter much. The world is changing. Social and civic organizations are dropping like flies. Stop by a meeting of the local Rotary, or Lion's Club, or JayCees, or Optimists, or whatever you have in your neighborhood. In our area, the average age of members has to be over 60. The "younger generations" aren't nearly as interested in flags, rulebooks, name tags or organizational politics. The Internet generation exists on spontaneous, decentralized, fluid social networks. I expect the WBCCI will take decades to wind down. It's not about Bob, or the international leadership, or local units. It's about relevance. The Web 2.0 Airstream owner doesn't care about ribbons, or nametags, or rallies. I think it is a younger, more socially-aware group that loves camping but finds the traditional "RV" distasteful on some level. I think free-spirited local units will help the WBCCI stagger on for awhile, but eventually technology and social networking will supplant the need for an "international" organization. In the long run, the Internet is a destablizing technology... and that's often a good thing. Great organizations are going to use this technology to better connect to membership. Obsolete organizations are going to write new rules and policies.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:20 PM   #28
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In the long, I don't think what the WBCCI does about Bob will matter much. The world is changing. Social and civic organizations are dropping like flies. Stop by a meeting of the local Rotary, or Lion's Club, or JayCees, or Optimists, or whatever you have in your neighborhood. In our area, the average age of members has to be over 60. The "younger generations" aren't nearly as interested in flags, rulebooks, name tags or organizational politics. The Internet generation exists on spontaneous, decentralized, fluid social networks. I expect the WBCCI will take decades to wind down. It's not about Bob, or the international leadership, or local units. It's about relevance. The Web 2.0 Airstream owner doesn't care about ribbons, or nametags, or rallies. I think it is a younger, more socially-aware group that loves camping but finds the traditional "RV" distasteful on some level. I think free-spirited local units will help the WBCCI stagger on for awhile, but eventually technology and social networking will supplant the need for an "international" organization. In the long run, the Internet is a destablizing technology... and that's often a good thing. Great organizations are going to use this technology to better connect to membership. Obsolete organizations are going to write new rules and policies.

Well said....
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:36 PM   #29
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Ok, as a newbie who is in the process of getting an Airstream, just what is IBT? And where can I get information to find out the benefits of WBCCI? And an application, in case I'm interested? Thanks!
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:40 PM   #30
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I am happy to report that I and perhaps hundreds of others have no idea what you are talking about.
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:48 PM   #31
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As a boomer rapidly approaching 60, I agree with Hampstead .... I attended my first and only rally last year and had my rookie enthusiasm quashed by an older member who called me "one of the younger ones" and made me feel very unwelcome because I didn't have the proper ID yet ... I knew I was in trouble then - feeling 16 at 60 not necessarily a good thing - at any rate, most of us working boomers are tech savvy and would agree with Hampstead that change has to come to this antiquated organization ... and good old fashioned courtesy and common sense would be a good place to start
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:20 AM   #32
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As a 42 year old father of two, I am so glad that none of my experiences have been the same as continuously portrayed here in these threads. Sorry you all have such bad, or lack of experiences. Glad to be me and not you. I will now go back to enjoying the WBCCI as I did this past year. You all can go back to running my club down now.
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:15 AM   #33
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Somehow I feel like I wrote something about declining church attendance and offended the leader of the Tuesday morning men's bible study at the local Lutheran church.

About a year ago, my wife and I decided to take a year off after our youngest daughter graduates. This led to a discussion about travel trailers. We didn't know what a "same old box" was. We figured it out for ourselves. We looked at vintage Spartans, Avions, Shastas, and, yes, Airstreams. The Overlander was a practical, not spiritual, choice... better parts availability, better support and these wonderful forums. (Everyone take a bow.) When we're done with our hiatus, we may keep the Overlander. We may not. It's a fun project but nothing close to a defining element of our lives.

I once spoke to you on the phone, Frank, after we bought our trailer. I know you are heavily involved in the WDCU unit of the WBCCI. I see you have realized your dream of running an Airstream business ("Frank's Trailer Works"). Congratulations. I have listened to you on archival episodes of the VAP. Your participation in the Podcast made it clear (at least to me), that Airstream travel trailers are profoundly important to you. If you ever got a triple-digit WBCCI number for "Anna" I imagine we all could hear your shouts of happiness from Catonsville. In other words, Frank, you are a "front pew" Airstream owner... I'm just a "Christmas and Easter" guy.

Given our wildly different perspectives, I can understand why you might have taken offense at my observations. And I apologize. It was not my intent to insult you or your club. I simply think the WBCCI is operating under an obsolete organizational model. I'm sure the WBCCI is full of wonderful folks. The members of the local Woman's Club were wonderful, too. They just never figured out they weren't recruiting enough new (and younger) members. They didn't understand the cultural shift, the different pattern of "joining" and the changed sensibilities of what people seek from affiliations.

Does the WBCCI work for most of its members, absolutely. Does it "work"? That's a different question and one I could hope might be discussed without offending individual members.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:46 AM   #34
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This is the other WBCCI thread that has become active:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...ies-46503.html

I think Hampstead38's post #28 on this thread is very relevant—it's an intelligent series of observations of how the world is changing and the internet is a big part of it. Just ask the owner of a newspaper how their business is doing.

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Old 01-27-2009, 07:40 AM   #35
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As a 42 year old father of two, I am so glad that none of my experiences have been the same as continuously portrayed here in these threads. Sorry you all have such bad, or lack of experiences. Glad to be me and not you. I will now go back to enjoying the WBCCI as I did this past year. You all can go back to running my club down now.
You know, I have to agree, my expierience has been very positive. Have fun finding virtual friends. I'm going camping, out.
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:06 AM   #36
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2020 committee

The WBCCI is taking a proactive look at where the club needs to be heading. The Region 2 website has posted a number of documents pertaining to the 2020 Planning Committee and their presentation at the mid-winter IBT meeting. If you want to help shape where this club is going, it's worth checking out the doc's. You may want to start with this one...

http://wbcci2.org/2020-IBTReportMid-Winter2009.pdf

Other docs include...

Proposed Action Plan for 2009
WBCCI.org Web Site Proposal
December 2008 Public Relations Report
Motion -Vision & Mission Statements
2020 IBT Report Mid-Winter 2009
WBCCI: New Directions - A compilation of proposals compiled by the
2020 Long Range Planning Committee
Change in WBCCI - a series of articles by Phil Pons

see WBCCI -- Region 2 homepage for links to the the planning docs.
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Old 04-20-2009, 01:41 PM   #37
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As usual, the IP is misinformed. The confidentiality clause in RONR only refers to "Investigations conducted by a "Investigations Committee" and to certain details pertaining to a person who is expelled from an organization. Bob T was NOT expelled and NO investigations Committee was ever appointed. If the Ethics and greivance committee conducted an investigation, they failed to inform Bob T and did not include him in such. In fact, the Leadership under mr. Larson failed to follow proper procedures. It is noted that two "fron the floor" candidates for international office had greivances filed against them and both greivance were found to be without merit and were revoked or dropped. Now this year the technique was to charge outrages fees in order for the candidates to have their info printed in the BB. And when the fees were paid, their candidate papers and positions were still not printed. Check out "Which is it?" on Savewally for more details.
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:35 PM   #38
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Hi, I,m Bob Thompson and just came upon this thread. So here are my coments:
The greivance apparently a planned action to keep me from running of International Offic which backfired. Yes they suspended me and yes an IBT appeals board revoked the suspension and restored me to full membership without a break in service.

The RONR clearly limits the Confidential part of a greivance to any investigation that a greivance committee may undertake. Other then that ALL of the reswt the the procedures and actions are open to all members. So the International President was clearly wrong. Period. having said that My wife and I do NOT want any apology from the International President because it would ring hollow and , In my opin, would not be worth the paper it would be written on.

My only concern is that the club leadership never again abuses, and violates the club's constitution and by-laws by what they did. (you can read the details on Savewally under International cartel railroads Bob.

My greater concern is what they did to interfer with Leo Garvey's "from the floor Candidate effort. What they did was Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The leadership responsible for the above wrongful suspension and interference with an election and for $100,000+/- deficit this year will go out of office on 4July. So it is hoped that all of us can move on with an era of better leadership and look to the clubs future.

Enough said, I an going camping.
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:46 PM   #39
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You know, we appreciate hearing your side of things, but all of this WBCCI political stuff is very off-putting for many, many people. We worked for a really corrupt bureaucracy for 25 years, it all sounds so sadly and sickeningly familiar. In other words, good for you to get your word out, but it reinforces some of our feelings that we want no part of it.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:00 PM   #40
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No comment! I just want to have fun and enjoy my AS and go camping. Did i just comment?.
I also have no comment - in fact have no idea what this thread is all about.
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