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Old 09-02-2008, 12:22 AM   #127
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Sorry... premature <Return>

Jim--

Been a while since I've done this, but the incorporation papers are separate from the bylaws and it is possible to incorporate before the bylaws are finalized. I just looked at the Oregon Corporation Division as an example.. and the form is know pretty much bulletproof now.

http://www.filinginoregon.com/forms/...siness/112.pdf

The major selections in the decision tree are whether the corporation is non-profit, will it have voting members... and a list of incorporators. If I remember correctly, the bylaws don't need to final for the incorporation process, That said, it is common to approve them at the first board meeting since that is how you add "voting members".

We would need to pick a state to incorporate... I would recommend anyone but California. California has many "unique" rules that could be a surprise.
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Old 09-02-2008, 01:50 AM   #128
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While I don't know how, I do know that it is very simple to set up a web site. So why not set up a web site JIM , and make it so we can post to it . Start out with whatever categories come to mind and be sure to have a category to "click" on to for others' ideas as to new categories .
Perhaps one category could be for people who think that this idea has merit,but want to hear more first ,can sign up as "listeners" ...If they come to form the opinion that this is a group of friends they'd like to converse with /e-mail with ,then they could put their names in a different category ;one for people who WANT to join this new club. If there is sufficient interest then it would be simple to just change the URL or Link it and send out the new "www" to all who have signed up ...

put it down on paper [or in this case write it out on a web site/forum and see who salutes !
NOt sure if www.pink flamigoes.com or www.airturtlesunite.com are taken but it is easy enough to find out !
Mike in New Hampshire
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:07 AM   #129
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Sorry... premature <Return>

Jim--

Been a while since I've done this, but the incorporation papers are separate from the bylaws and it is possible to incorporate before the bylaws are finalized. I just looked at the Oregon Corporation Division as an example.. and the form is know pretty much bulletproof now.

http://www.filinginoregon.com/forms/...siness/112.pdf

The major selections in the decision tree are whether the corporation is non-profit, will it have voting members... and a list of incorporators. If I remember correctly, the bylaws don't need to final for the incorporation process, That said, it is common to approve them at the first board meeting since that is how you add "voting members".

We would need to pick a state to incorporate... I would recommend anyone but California. California has many "unique" rules that could be a surprise.
Right you are about picking a state.

I am intimately familiar with this process in California. The downside is that you have to have an office address in California.

I have been looking at Delaware. They seem to encourage people to incorporate there without a requirement for an address in the state. And the cost is minimal from what I have read to date.

This is important because correspondence coming to the club needs to be readily available to the club Secretary so important issues associated with things like taxes don't get left sitting in a post office box.

I think I mentioned something about this in my first post when talking about bylaws.

That whole issue started because the secretary of the club did not get the mail in a timely fashion from the person who was supposed to be going to the mail box to retrieve and forward it.

We learned the hard way that the secretary had to have all mail delivered where they are. A post box is OK so a home address is NOT used but the secretary has to be the responsible person for retrieving the mail.

Accountability and all that don't you know.

Yes, it may well be possible to incorporate prior to the bylaws being completed.

Speaking for myself I would rather NOT do this. I would hate for someone to be out of pocket for the cost and then find that the process for getting the bylaws done drags things out and possibly never even happnes.

I do NOT think that will be the case here. But, having said that I don't really see the need to rush forward with incorporation prior to the bylaws being complete.

And, keep in mind that the Articles of Incorporation generally have the names and structure for the board of directors in it. We have not yet begun our deliberations as to how many officers we should have to say nothing of who the initial board members for the club will be.

I just think it is a bit premature to move forward with incorporation at this time.

Jim
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:19 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by watson007 View Post
While I don't know how, I do know that it is very simple to set up a web site. So why not set up a web site JIM , and make it so we can post to it . Start out with whatever categories come to mind and be sure to have a category to "click" on to for others' ideas as to new categories .
Perhaps one category could be for people who think that this idea has merit,but want to hear more first ,can sign up as "listeners" ...If they come to form the opinion that this is a group of friends they'd like to converse with /e-mail with ,then they could put their names in a different category ;one for people who WANT to join this new club. If there is sufficient interest then it would be simple to just change the URL or Link it and send out the new "www" to all who have signed up ...

put it down on paper [or in this case write it out on a web site/forum and see who salutes !
NOt sure if www.pink flamigoes.com or www.airturtlesunite.com are taken but it is easy enough to find out !
Mike in New Hampshire
Hi Mike,

You absolutely right about this being something that can be done.

I have to admit that I am very concerned about losing valuable input from people if we move away from this here forum for the process. I sure would not want to see people who care get left out because they had a problem understanding what we were doing AND where we were doing it.

And, on a web site the only easy thing to do would be set up another forum. Then everyone has to create user accounts, etc., etc. A web site cannot be left open to anyone to have permission to make changes.

And there is the cost associated with obtaining space from an ISP and a domain name for the web site.

None of it is hard to do but it is time AND money.

I gave serious thought about doing this on my web site in order to avoid the cost and I decided against it for the above reasons.

I looked at the Google Docs stuff and came away thinking it would be a nightmare because we would have to create access for anyone who would want to use it. People could not just get on; someone would have to be an administrator and add every person that wanted access to an access list. Too much overhead from my perspective given the number of people on this forum who ALL should have the ability to participate should they so choose.

I really think that doing this here on the forum is the best approach. People know how things work here and don't have to learn new tricks.

From what I have seen here folks have a comfort zone they are happy with here with Andy and he has been very good to us over the years. He is willing to let us carry on here.

It just seems easier to keep moving forward here rather that halting our momentum by taking time to move this to a new location.

Just my $0.2 worth folks. If the majority would like to move off the Airforum we certainly can do that.

Jim
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:41 AM   #131
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Rather than a website, why not set up a free account at blogspot.com? You can set up your topics as individual New Posts to which people can comment. It is with these comments that the discussion occurs. You can simply post a link here for people to follow and be taken directly to the blog to read the topics and comment where they wish.
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:41 AM   #132
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Mail Depot/UPS Store - P. O. Box

We own Mail Depot - in Virginia Beach, VA. I think I can contribute something useful to the club here.

First of all, private mail receiving services can and do forward mail for their patrons.

Some of these businesses even forward mail to multiple locations, or with your explicit permission, open it and fax it or otherwise process it. For instance our business has Answer Center - an answering service that does order taking and fulfillment. We could process and even fulfill orders if the new club sold pink berets, flamingo hats, etc. we could fulfill internet orders, take and fulfill phone orders and even fulfill orders through the mail. (Not pimping our own business - just pointing out things to consider - contracting out basic day-to-day secretarial/clerical services as a less expensive option to having full-time employees to manage the club's office). Dues payments, etc. could be taken unopened to a bank's financial fulfillment center, general inquiries could be e-mailed to members of the club's board, etc.

One REAL disadvantage to using a private mail receiving service is that they could go out of business. To protect against that, Some of our patrons actually use a USPS P. O. Box (when the US Postal Service goes - we'll have bigger problems than any CLUB). On a daily basis, we pick up our mail from the post office, and go through pick up the mail from several P. O. Boxes, then either deliver it, forward it, or process it. Should we win the lottery and close the business these patrons can easily find another service to take over where we leave off.

I'd recommend setting up the corporation in a fairly large city - at least 50,000 population or larger - this is where you'll be able to find a good choice of mail receiving services/secretarial services/telephone answering services, etc. Obviously a location in the center of the country makes sense just from the cost of UPS shipping if nothing else.

Hope this is useful and constructive.

Paula Ford
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:48 AM   #133
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Jim--

No issue with delaying incorporation, I just fond of getting a few folks to pony up some $$$ to get a core group motivated to make progress.

Now one of the nice things about the 501c(3) corp is it's pretty easy to "turn-off" since all you need to do is transfer any remaining assets (ie. Money) to another non-profit and file for dissolution. I always like having a plan "b"... just in case.

Let me dig around to see if I have a copy of bylaws from one of the previous endeavours. I've got a funny feeling it may be on a floppy. Yikes!

I'll do a some searches as well and maybe able to snag an example to start with.
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:57 AM   #134
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...if the new club sold pink berets, flamingo hats, etc.
I'm in!
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:59 AM   #135
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Information gathering...

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<SNIP>

If one is contemplating forming a club, it is wise to be thinking decades ahead and beyond what is present today.

<SNIP>
Gen Disarray,

I think you have on something here with your above statement that we should all keep in forefront of our thoughts as we hash through the process of deliberating what we would like our new club to be.

The only thing I know for sure about tomorrow is that it will be different from today. Add decades to that and the only difference is how significant the differences will be.

So lets all keep this in mind. What ever we create will have to be flexible in order to CHANGE as we and the times change.

While there are many things that we must be specific about in our bylaws I encourage everyone to not get hung up on including lots of "stuff" that will require us to make changes should the members decide they want to do things differently in the future.

This, IMSNHO is the main problem that the WBCCI is facing today. They have incorporated so much "stuff" into their bylaws that they now have a club were very few of the members, including unit and region presidents, understand how things are required to be done. I sure hope we can avoid creating a monster here.

As I requested in an earlier thread, we need to set a time frame for our information gathering so we can get down to the nitty gritty (techinal term) of making decisions.

Days is probaly not sufficient time and months is probably too much time.

How about some number of weeks?

I am very hesitant to put a number to this for fear of anyone thinking I am trying to dicatate what we are doing. Everyone is intitled to have a say in this.

But, to get things going I will suggest three weeks.

It is now up to y'all to make a decision by offering a differnt time frame if you so desire.

Jim, who wants to keep the ball rolling along....
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:22 AM   #136
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Out for a bit...

I have some personal business that I have to take care of today and will not able to sit at my computer waiting for y'all to ask questions, etc.

So, you all play nicely with each other while I'm gone today.

Jim
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:54 PM   #137
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New Unit

OK I think I am in. I am trying to get the Rivettes together to be a unit in the new Airstream club. I really would love to see this happen!

We can tow it ladies and we can be a sanctioned unit. Paula you were an absolute inspiration. We already are a body let's just give it some wings.
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Old 09-02-2008, 02:23 PM   #138
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OK I think I am in. I am trying to get the Rivettes together to be a unit in the new Airstream club...
rethink the notion of unit.

onecluboneunitonepageofNOrules.

subdividing adds complexity and more levels of separation.

those interested in women have a common bond right?

no xy or xx or yxwhy, just LOTS of xs and os and oohs and aahs...

are women's issues related to RVing really any different than women's issues for life in general?

if confidence is the primary link ("we can tow it") i can find LOTS of fellows with the same issue...

think instead of DIVERSE social networks within the ONE collective.

perhaps based on gender (badidea2me) but better focused on interests...

so2like badmitton, scrapbooking, spelunking or mobile gardening or outerspace caravans...

as a spider's web where the ONE is interconnected across several threads.

not split/segregated/labeled and mis-guided by yet another subset of rules or requirements.

blank slate, blank mind, blank OUT the past models....

BE the club...

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-02-2008, 03:12 PM   #139
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You mean rethink my elitist gender specific unit? But it worked for Spanky and our gang, or did it? To restrict restrictions is restrictive, isn't it?

OK I was formulating a longer answer but when it started sounding like Kiss me Kate or Taming of the Shrew I tossed it, or was it lost it?

I appreciate the comments and will consider them. My priority would be to find like-minded individuals that I would want to spend time with. Picky, picky, I know.

No rules except one, men could not hold office to maintain the preservation and growth of the charter purpose of instituting a woman's group. I see a president with a term of office until someone else wants to lead. I have someone in mind and it isn't me. I would like my personal title to be Mother Hen and others to choose their own roles unchallenged and accepted. I also see some women only activities planned such as a caravan to slab city for instance. But I also see some rallies where significant and not so significant others would attend.

Every member votes on all decisions as necessary. Otherwise there are no rules, nothing etched in stone aforehand and nothing left for posterity's sake. Just joint communication and the majority wins. That's the way we have always played together. And it works.

That's not to say I would not join a different unit should it be formed but I would have to be convinced of the pertinence and value to my own experience to commit my loyalties and energies. That does not happen haphazardly. Now when it comes to just hanging out and having fun, I am all about inclusivity as much as parties go or I might just exercise opting out upon my own discretion. No harm, no foul.

I think a woman's organization has significance and perhaps will enumerate its virtues at a later time.

This unit would not be my only exposure and window to the world at large, just another fun facet of it and opportunity to enjoy sisterhood. With any group there is a dynamic.
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Old 09-02-2008, 03:46 PM   #140
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Eureka!

Since serious discussion on this thread has slowed down for a while, maybe we have time to inject a little humor.

I have figured out the perfect name for the new club!

Earliier on this thread it was noted that Wally Byam's Caravan Club and Wally Byam Caravan Club International and logo are both registered trademarks of WBCCI, so the odds of our being licensed to use Wally Byam's name are slim to none.

So. . . why not name the club in honor of the one person who has done more to encourage its formation than anyone else?

The Jim Franklin Camping Club

Club motto: Stand down!

Cheers,
Nuvi
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