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Old 09-01-2008, 02:09 PM   #101
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Numbers/Names

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Originally Posted by Jim & Susan View Post
Speaking of Kirk, Spoc and the boys....

If we decide to do numbers in the new club, I call dibs on 1701. And keeping with Star Fleet tradition, we need to do them in a dark gray.....

Jim
Hey bubba,

I had a computer named ncc-1701 and another voyager when we were (ugh) working for a living. Why restrict it to numbers? Why not go whole hog and add the ncc part as well. Why not name your own trailer/MH whatever you please?

What if I want to put our snail logo on our trailer?

The other Jim
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Old 09-01-2008, 02:29 PM   #102
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Cool idea. Just to geek out, we could just use ASCII charaters... it works with computers since this infancy of this idea was nurtured via the web. ... and I could be #*$@%!!. LoL

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Old 09-01-2008, 03:16 PM   #103
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There is no apoligy needed. Roger and Mike are one in the same. Mike(nickname) was given to me by my grandfather,and I try very hard to "FIT IT" small engines that is or anything else that crosses my path thats broken.
If we do begin something new we need to round up all the stray/inactive members in our own area, like where I live the Cincinnati Unit is completely dead,and we are settin on top of both Airstream and WBCCI and get whom ever is capable of still camping EXCITED AGAIN about camping.
Some are not capable of paying the high fees commanded for Rallys put on by the original club. We attended the Detroit-Metro Forums Rally it was just people gettin together for a week end.We Didnt need no stinkin Dues or Fees. We didn't need no president We just all worked together and everyone contributed something and We had a great time.JUST CAMPIN.
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Old 09-01-2008, 03:48 PM   #104
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Jim--

As the facilitor on this gala adventure... what do you see as next series of activities and which do you need help with organizing?

When I've started clubs in the past... step one always seems to be gaging interest. Step two is where things get complicated, do you gather money first and incorporate... or incorporate then gather money?

Your thoughts?
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:00 PM   #105
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When I've started clubs in the past... step one always seems to be gaging interest. Step two is where things get complicated, do you gather money first and incorporate... or incorporate then gather money?
I imagine it varies depending on what state you are incorporating in, but in the two not-for-profit corporations that I was involved in starting (in Indiana) you got together an initial bunch of "subscribers" to the corporation who served as the initial shareholders, and who typically contributed the up-front money. So, I guess the answer is you gather money, then incorporate.

And right now I suspect it's a good time to solicit subscribers, because a lot of people are . . . energized?. . . by recent shenanigans of the WBCCI.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:12 PM   #106
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The next step...

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Jim--

As the facilitor on this gala adventure... what do you see as next series of activities and which do you need help with organizing?

When I've started clubs in the past... step one always seems to be gaging interest. Step two is where things get complicated, do you gather money first and incorporate... or incorporate then gather money?

Your thoughts?
Very good questions.

From what we have seen here I think step one in you message is complete. It looks to me like we have sufficient interest.

At the minute I am waiting to hear from one of the forum moderators so we can get a sub forum set up.

This may take as much as a day once we chat about what I think would be nice to have. I have no idea if they can do what I would like. If they can it will make the process of gathering everyone's ideas about specific subjects about how the club should be structured and how it should operate fairly easy.

If they cannot do what I would like the process of sifting though all of the input we receive from everyone will take more time.

Any rate, information gathering about these specifics is the next step in my mind.

Then there will be the task of incorporating these ideas into an actual document - bylaws and Articles of Incorporation AND getting everyone's approval of the documents.

Once we have agreement on structure and operations (bylaws and Articles of Incorporation) the next step would be incorporation. Whoever goes out of pocket for this (probably me) can be reimbursed (assuming the members allow for reimbursement of members in the bylaws) and folks choose to join the club and pay dues.


What do you think?

What have I missed?

What questions does this generate in your mind, and in the minds of others?

Jim

PS: I just received a PM from Andy and hope we will be working on the establishment of a sub forum nigh on to immediately.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:27 PM   #107
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A couple of things.

Do you (Jim) have boilerplate Articles and By Laws in computer format (.pdf or MSWord)?

The Mods can set up a separate forum for this, as you've already discovered. As 2air mentioned several posts back, this new club can have its own "private" forum here that only "members" of this new "club" will have access to. I recommend that this feature of the forum NOT be used. Let's keep everything out in the open for all to see.

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Old 09-01-2008, 04:36 PM   #108
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Open communication...

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A couple of things.

Do you (Jim) have boilerplate Articles and By Laws in computer format (.pdf or MSWord)?

The Mods can set up a separate forum for this, as you've already discovered. As 2air mentioned several posts back, this new club can have its own "private" forum here that only "members" of this new "club" will have access to. I recommend that this feature of the forum NOT be used. Let's keep everything out in the open for all to see.

Jim
I could not agree more about open communication.

Everyone should be able to see (read) everything. I think I mentioned being very much in favor of transparency in this process in an earlier post. I am glad you agree.

Yes, I have some things in a computer format; specifically MS Word. Ultimately whatever is produced will have be maintained in a word processing format as well as a PDF format so it can be published on the club web site.

Just my $0.2 worth.

Jim
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:08 PM   #109
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Perhaps a community poll to guage interest?...MDW and I are willing to help out...I'm all in...deal!...
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:22 PM   #110
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I guess I just don't get it.

What value added will this new club bring that we don't already have in this forum and the forum rallies? A national organization with bylaws, incorporation, etc. to do what, exactly?

I think, and I seriously might have missed something which would not be the first time, that everything I have read so far as to what the new organization hopes to accomplish is already here.

Letting the WBCCI die of its own weight does not require another club to hasten the process.

Getting together at various locations accross the country to just hang out and have fun is already there, in spades, at the forum rallies.

This effort will require a lot of effort and $ from many people.

For what purpose?

John
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:31 PM   #111
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Jim and Susan
Just tryin to keep the Jim's straight.
Thanks for mentioning what I was thinking. Nothing is to be private in any new group that's formed. Open for all to see. No secret hand shakes. When everyone has an equal say or opportunity to voice opinions.Not one or two Who think they are GOD ALMIGHTY and can do as they please and answer to no one.Thats my thought and Im stickin to it.
Roger
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:56 PM   #112
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I guess I just don't get it.

What value added will this new club bring that we don't already have in this forum and the forum rallies? A national organization with bylaws, incorporation, etc. to do what, exactly?

.....For what purpose?

John
Liability insurance. Some very good posts on that subject here in this thread.

I like the original idea of splitting the Units away from the IBT, essentially creating two different organizations rather than taking such dramatic actions as organizing a completely new club. This sort of thing is already in practice all around the world (not exactly the same but, Boy Scouts of America, Girl Scouts, etc). I just don't think the personalities in the IBT will ever allow it. So, as with any politician you can't persuade to do their job, fire 'em (Congress & the Presidency, of course, come to mind here).
Maybe this won't work. Maybe it's a really bad idea. Maybe somebody in the WBCCI leadership is reading this. Maybe when their expense accounts evaporate they'll finally get a clue. Maybe.

Jim (aka Bubba)
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Old 09-01-2008, 06:58 PM   #113
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Guys,

I have been PMing with Jim. He has requested that I setup a sub-forum here on AIR for the discussions of forming this new Club. Unfortunately I don't think the time is right for a subforum here on this topic yet. If this club gets traction and goes from an idea to reality then we can look at creating a subforum. For now I have suggested just tagging the threads with a common tag and then you can view the threads grouped together just like a subforum. Here are example of tags:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/tags/

If you create a common tag to use for discussions on this topic you can just link to them like this:

Instead of safari you would have your tag there. It's basically the same thing as a subforum (a grouping of threads).
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:04 PM   #114
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I like what Relentless had to say, we are the "New Club".
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:17 PM   #115
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What do ya all think?

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Guys,

I have been PMing with Jim. He has requested that I setup a sub-forum here on AIR for the discussions of forming this new Club. Unfortunately I don't think the time is right for a subforum here on this topic yet. If this club gets traction and goes from an idea to reality then we can look at creating a subforum. For now I have suggested just tagging the threads with a common tag and then you can view the threads grouped together just like a subforum. Here are example of tags:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/tags/

If you create a common tag to use for discussions on this topic you can just link to them like this:

Instead of safari you would have your tag there. It's basically the same thing as a subforum (a grouping of threads).
This works for me if it works for everyone else.

If someone would like to do it I would like to provide some information so that we can collect the data in a fashion that will make it very easy to use to build bylaws and Articles of Incorporation.

I would be VERY happy if someone volunteers to work on this.

Jim
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:42 PM   #116
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I guess I just don't get it.

What value added will this new club bring that we don't already have in this forum and the forum rallies?.......................................... ..........................
For what purpose?

John
In addition to Jim's point about insurance, remember that these forums, despite the feel, are a private owned enterprise. As "members" we have zero say in how it is run, end of story. If it were the basis of a camping club, the same would apply. Further, since there would be financial motive, there is no telling what would happen. It could be benign, like the forums have been to date, but at some date it could be bought out (think Beatrice Foods) and.. well you get the idea.
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:50 PM   #117
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Jim, Tags are kinda new around here. I think we got them with the last software upgrade. At any rate, I think the person that starts a thread gets to assign the tags. Go to the last post in a thread and there should be a link at the bottom left of that last post called "tags". Click on that link and fill in a tag name. I suggest something like "new club" for start.

Unfortunately, that is the extent of knowledge of tags. Can somebody tell us if there is a link to "tags" off of the portal page or forums page?

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Old 09-01-2008, 08:54 PM   #118
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As "members" we have zero say in how it is run, end of story.
That's funny, you do know this site is run by your peers right? Is there something we can do better? If so, please send me a PM and I would be glad to listen and try to find a solution.

AIR Forums is not intended to be a formal club. The goal was to create a place to share our knowledge, let members host their own rallies without any rules, etc. So I don't think comparing a "club" idea with the forums is very accurate.
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Further, since there would be financial motive, there is no telling what would happen. It could be benign, like the forums have been to date, but at some date it could be bought out (think Beatrice Foods) and.. well you get the idea.
If you don't think I have the best interest of the community in mind then I have done something wrong. I hope you can tell from my thousands of hours of work over the last 6.5 years that I indeed put my heart and soul into this site. I have no plans to sell AIR Forums and even expanding my community network to include other RV/Travel Trailer sites. So please don't compare me to Beatrice Foods. Thor might own Airstream, Inc but that does not dilute the love we have for Airstreams, the passion we have for traveling or the comradery people get from being part of the wonderful community of Airstream enthusiasts!

I guess what I am trying to say is that we get enough FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) on the news. You don't need to use this tactic to encourage members to form a new group. It would be much more noble to focus on the positive factors of the new group instead of pointing out all the negatives of every other option.
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:59 PM   #119
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Oh Andy, we know that. You've been very good to us and there wouldn't even be an "us" without you! I don't think any disrespect was intended, at least I should hope not.

But you did give me an idea. Can we chip in and buy WBCCI? They would have enough to fund all their heart desires and let the younger ones run with it for the next 50 plus years!

I got a quarter here. Who will see that and raise my bid?
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:20 PM   #120
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That's funny, you do know this site is run by your peers right? Is there something we can do better? If so, please send me a PM and I would be glad to listen and try to find a solution.

AIR Forums is not intended to be a formal club. The goal was to create a place to share our knowledge, let members host their own rallies without any rules, etc. So I don't think comparing a "club" idea with the forums is very accurate.If you don't think I have the best interest of the community in mind then I have done something wrong. I hope you can tell from my thousands of hours of work over the last 6.5 years that I indeed put my heart and soul into this site. I have no plans to sell AIR Forums and even expanding my community network to include other RV/Travel Trailer sites. So please don't compare me to Beatrice Foods. Thor might own Airstream, Inc but that does not dilute the love we have for Airstreams, the passion we have for traveling or the comradery people get from being part of the wonderful community of Airstream enthusiasts!

I guess what I am trying to say is that we get enough FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) on the news. You don't need to use this tactic to encourage members to form a new group. It would be much more noble to focus on the positive factors of the new group instead of pointing out all the negatives of every other option.
Sorry Andy, that was not my point at all and I was not discounting the forums or you. If you take offense, none was meant, and I apologize. In fact, the comments had nothing at all to do with you personally. The forums are well run, and a great place. Having worked behind the curtain I know how well it works, and what its limitations are.

As you point out, the forums are not meant to be a formal club, which was in fact my point. I can see how my comments may have been misread, but I do take exception to them being characterized as "fear and doubt" tactics. The point I was trying to get across was that a commerce based club would not be the way to go. You have built a wonderful product Andy, I don't think anyone will argue that. However, I would argue that you are not likely to own the forums forever regardless of your present plans. In fact, Beatrice is the perfect comparison. WB had a great company so far as I can tell, but like all of us he was all to mortal. If one is contemplating forming a club, it is wise to be thinking decades ahead and beyond what is present today. A business is not accountable to anyone but the owners (so long as they are willing to loose money), and is never more than one sell away from being something very different than it started as. That is no commentary on you or anyone else n particular, rather it is a general observation.

Further, I am not discouraging a new group ( I think it is a pretty good idea in fact), I was simply pointing out the limits to what a business centered sponsor were. I welcome, and might well join a camping club that was about camping rather than a mobile home owners association; what my comments were intended to do was to help explain why it would be better to organize around democratic rather than economic principals.
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