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Old 12-21-2004, 07:58 AM   #57
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See, if I understand the issue correctly, the factory folks that build 'em get paid for getting numbers out the door. The service folks I don't think are in the same pay structure.

I think the only way to get it right is to really, really enforce it and if it isn't being done, start taking money out of the paychecks for each issue that isn't being done right that has to come back to be re-done...and don't take it out of just the line person, but also the person that signed off on the various QCs. I don't think rasing the price is the right way to go, but it has been done for over two years now....each year had a beyond cost of living increase and yet a fair number of issues still are happening. So folks are paying more for new Airstreams every year and getting similar results. Sadly it's just a numbers game. Build as many as you can, get them sold since they can barely keep up with demand, deal with any issues later (which are a tax deduction for them by the way--cost of doing business), only issue is that it usually is a pain in the behind to find a good service center or one that is less than 2 hours away on average. So any fix pretty eats a whole day just in commute times.

I agree, some of the issues are clearly still in need of attention. I will say that some areas I have seen have gotten better. It is sad that there are still a number of the same old, same old issues. Keep in mind though, that some issues discussed, like A/C units, heaters, etc, are slightly out of Airstream's control. They buy the same units others buy, they don't build those machines themselves, but do also stand behind them should they fail....but you're also right...doors and windows should be aligned properly and if not caught...I also know that some settling can happen when in transit. It's not an easy job to build an Airstream, but I agree, there is still work to be done from the sound of the .05ers on the build.

My fav so far was the 12v inside outlet that was wired to the rear tail lights.

Oh and by the way....if you think Airstream doens't know about this site and doesn't read it, think again...they do!
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:13 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Oh and by the way....if you think Airstream doens't know about this site and doesn't read it, think again...they do!
Not only do they know about this site and routinely read these posts, but I was asked by Airstream management, as others were asked (I have been told), not to post our quality concerns here. They would prefer that eveyone not know about these quality problems.

However, if this communication only informs potential customers what to look for when they buy a unit, and does not encourage Airstream build better units, then I believe it still serves a valuable purpose.

John
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Old 12-21-2004, 10:53 AM   #59
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John ---I'm sure you'r right in that AS probably doesn't like their problems being aired publicly but really doubt it's of much concern. I think a pole of those on this forum would show that most never looked here until they were owners. It would be interesting to know. You are exactly right in that the only thing that will change anything is if people quit buying their product. We went to an RV ralley and show our selling dealer put on back in Oct. Had talked of trading our 16 CCD for a 25 CCD if we could work out a fair trade difference. After doing a walk through, not a close inspection mind you, of the 3 units in their inventory I told my wife I didn't want to spend another year reassembling another trailer. We walked with MONEY IN OUR POCKET. Am not saying I would never purchase another AS but I will never as long as the quality is like it is. Finally I do appreciate the factorys service departments attitude but not everyone lives close by. When I spoke to them they while more than happy to take care of any problems but didn't seem to be concerned that I live 1500 miles away. It was like "bring it on over and we'll get right on it!" I continue o be hopefull that change will occur but have yet to see any sign of it.----Pieman
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:24 PM   #60
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Pieman -

Your story about having a CCD, and looking at new CCD's at the RV show, reminds me of a story I head from another CCD "owner" this past October when I was at the factory waiting for some repairs on my Airstream.

There was a fellow there at the time who was REALLY upset. He and I spoke at length -- what else is there to do when you're waiting for your unit to be repaired?

He was a business owner in the northeast, and his wife was an attorney. He said he had already paid his dealer the entire purchase price for a new 2005 28' CCD, but then had rejected taking delivery on 3 straight units.

The first CCD was already in the dealership inventory, but when he looked it over it had too many quality issues, so he asked the dealer to order another one from the factory. When that CCD arrived at the dealership, he said the dealer took it to an RV show (without telling him), and he refused to take delivery of it when he later found out. I don't know if he even bothered to look at it, but he concluded that 50,000 people tromping through "his" trailer wasn't something he wanted (nor would I).

The dealer ordered a third CCD and when this one arrived it had very large, unsightly scratches near and around the entrance door, inside and out. The guy said he'd had it by that time, so he took off work for several days, insisted that the dealer return the CCD to the factory, and he followed the trailer there to give them a piece of his mind, and to see that these problems were fixed before he'd accept delivery.

He showed me this CCD in the factory service shop, and I know that several of Airstream's top guys saw it and discussed it with him. Why in the world Airstream would build, much less ship, a unit looking that one is beyond me.

If anybody wonders why I say that Airsteam management isn't concerned about building quality units, it's due to experiences like that one, as well as with my own Airstream experiences over the course of this past year, that convinces me that's the case.

John

ps. That fellow was an architect who built expensive homes. He told us of his clients who sometimes ordered very expensive items for their homes, where he had workmen wear gloves so they wouldn't get scratches on the items. He said he'd never stay in business if he delivered products like that CCD.

I suppose he wouldn't.
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:52 PM   #61
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I guess it goes back to the buyer beware. When I first saw the early CCD's I was amazed by the exposed alumimum on the interior walls and the scratches and other issues. Its one thing exposed aluminum on the outside. Its another thing though having it exposed inside. Considering all the interior work that must be done on assembly, the amount of care necessary to keep that aluminum from being damaged is quite daunting. Think about the potential as cabinets are being hung and other components carried in, one miscue mars a finish.

If I took that one step further considering daily wear and tear while the unit is in use, its not going to be an easy job to keep these interiors pristine. Technically Airstream built one sharp looking trailer. Unfortunately for assembly purposes its a nightmare.

If I worked up at the plant I probably would like building the Classics, with their wall paper and carpeted walls. That hides a lot of sins that would otherwise be exposed on CCD units.

There is no excuse for poor quality but sometimes you have to blame the designers and management production quotas for asking more than what the average assemblyman can consistantly produce.

Jack
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Old 12-21-2004, 10:54 PM   #62
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You know, I started the 2004 thread about 2 or 3 months before I went down to get our new Safari. By the time I got down there the 2004 thread was already about 12 pages long. None of the folks there said anything to me to the effect that I shouldn't post. As a matter of fact, I've noticed that Airstream doesn't really edit too many posts on their forum either. I doubt they don't want folks to know.

In the end, I also believe that these overall quality threads do help track trends and while they are out there reading, it clearly indicates where they need to focus. To that end, I plan on continuing with a 2006 model year thread next time around.
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Old 12-24-2004, 11:48 AM   #63
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TV - Battery Solution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp-Dog
Picked up my 05 25' CCD on Friday. I don't have much to add as of yet since I won't be taking it out on a trial run until later this week. So far here's a few things I can share in regards to the workmanship/quality:

1) That squeeky floor problem you read about between the dinette and stove? I got it too! Mostly just a squeak, and/or a banging sound. Almost sounds like popping metal sometimes.

2) It seems whoever put the window in wasn't paying too much attention
to what they were doing. About 1 and 4 screws are eiether missing or
missed the hole altogether. There is aabout 1 3/4" separation between the window frame and body where the screws bent over/broke and missed the hole.

3) Upper cabinets, again screws bent over and missed the hole in a couple places.

4) I got the upgraded audio/video package and all seems to work great. The only thing I'd say is be carefull how you interpret the "12 volt" TV. It is 12 volt, but requires 110v to the transformer so you can't actually use it; unless you've got 110 power hooked -- no dry camping an wathing TV off the battery. Still waiting on the dealer's answer on a few 'missing' items. I think this is a bunch of bunk, but they're trying to tell me the stereo remote and TV remote are optional items...I interpret this as "they lost them"..still waiting for a callback on these 2 items.

For the most part I can deal with a few imperfections, but when buying a top tier product line it can be a little disappointing when the numbers start to add up. All these issues should be just simple fixes. I'll let ya'll know how it goes. Mftr. date is 06/04

All in all I'm happy with it. Not trying to be negative, just posting my 'issues' as the forum topic suggests.
Camp-Dog,

We have a '05 Safari 30' Safari Bunkhouse that came with the upgraded AV package. As you indicated, the LCD TV runs on DC but like my laptops has a converter/powerpak that plugs into the 110V outlet. Two possible solutions: 1) buy an inverter with a 12V adapter. Our unit has a 12V powerpoint (a cigarette lighter type plug) below the cabinet containing the powerpak. When I boondock, I just plug the 110 plug on the TV into the inverter and then plug the inverter into the 12V outlet. This has worked well for me; and 2) this one I haven't tried but you should be able to buy an aftermarket powerpak with a 12V connector. I have a Targus unit that has connectors for both 110 and 12V that I use with my IBM laptop. You can also buy tips for other brands of Laptops as well as other electronics such as cameras, cell phones, pdas, etc. This is a great unit as I only take one powerpak on the road now. You may be able to find a tip to fit the TV. Go to targus.com for a look.

BTW, the remotes come with the unit. They are not "optional".

Our unit was built in May '04 and while we have had some minor issues, the build quality is far superior to our previous unit, a Kodiak hybrid.

Hope this is helpful,

Jeff
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:02 PM   #64
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If we weren't going to use this "thing" until we are unable/disabled, I would say that it was a waste of $52000. Nice that you are now thinking about the quality of the "new" 2005 ,models

Our 2002 is a disappointment in quality control. Never again.
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Old 12-24-2004, 07:27 PM   #65
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Quote:
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If we weren't going to use this "thing" until we are unable/disabled, I would say that it was a waste of $52000. Nice that you are now thinking about the quality of the "new" 2005 ,models

Our 2002 is a disappointment in quality control. Never again.
I don't understand this post; wouldn't the fact that you are going to have this TT so long argue the other way? Why the quotes around the word new?
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Old 01-02-2005, 09:31 AM   #66
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Just curious if anyone has had any experience with having the factory fix the soft/squeaky floor on their 04/05 model 25' ?

I just returned from my first trip -- 7 days and all went well. The only thing that grinds on me is the floor issue. I've fixed up most of the minor stuff myself and waiting for the holiday season to finish up so I can make some progress on the so called 'optional' items. How receptive have other dealers/factory been on fixing the soft/squeaky floor?

I can say for sure, the AS held up nicely in the 20 degree temps we had during our trip. The heat worked great with one exception -- the propane bottle iced over a bit and cut down a little on the output, easy fix was to turn on both bottles since propane tanks rely on a little bit temp difference to expel the gas.

Since I will rarely camp in 20 degree weather but it was interesting to also see how much condensation really does build up. At one point I swore I had a leak, but it was just the moisture buildup on the 'inside' of the ceiling near the front fantastic fan. I guess I can kinda confirm this with the 4 inches of rain we got later in the week -- with no leak.

The floor is more like one of those things that bugs me more only because I know it's there -- but I'd really like to get it fixed up.
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Old 01-02-2005, 10:04 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp-Dog
Just curious if anyone has had any experience with having the factory fix the soft/squeaky floor on their 04/05 model 25' ?
I had my 2004 30' Classic back for factory service 2 times this past summer, and had them look at the floor, among a number of other problems.

My floor squeaks and creaks (sp?), and I believe moves up and down (although it may be just my imagination) right in front of the refrigerator.

The first time at the factory in June, they told me they put more insulation somewhere under the floor, which did absolutely nothing to fix the problem.

The next time I was there at the end of September, I was basically told I had to live with it.

I hope you have more luck in dealing with your floor problem than I have had with mine.

John

ps. I previously owned 2 quality SOB TT's that cost $20,000 each that had floors that didn't squeak a bit before paying $60,000 for this Airstream, so it seems to me that Airstream has a problem with either their flooring materials, their assembly methods, their people, and perhaps all three.
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Old 01-03-2005, 11:23 PM   #68
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Warped floor on 2005 19' CCD

I have a 2005 19' International manufactured 7/04. I have had two problems with it. The first is that the propane heater would not light. I went to Dillon's RV city in Apache Junction, AZ and they fixed it. Now the floor in the bathroom is warped due to a plumbing leak. I think the flloor will have to be replaced to repair the dammage. I will be going back to Dillon's in a couple of days to make a warranty claim for the repairs.
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Old 01-04-2005, 09:45 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmurphy
I have a 2005 19' International manufactured 7/04. I have had two problems with it. The first is that the propane heater would not light. I went to Dillon's RV city in Apache Junction, AZ and they fixed it. Now the floor in the bathroom is warped due to a plumbing leak. I think the flloor will have to be replaced to repair the dammage. I will be going back to Dillon's in a couple of days to make a warranty claim for the repairs.
We had the very same issue with the furnace in our '03 19' Bambi.
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Old 01-10-2005, 01:20 AM   #70
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We've had our 2005 19' Bambi Int since October and love it. We have a few minor issues though haven't had it long enough to test all systems over a long period. Here's my "fix it" list for an AS tech so far:

1) Black tank monitor reads full when empty...this seems to be common problem with no apparent fix but we'll have them try anyway!

2) Some missing rivets (3) and hope this is easy fix.

3) Satellite radio not working, maybe faulty antenna wire. This is new for 2005 and not much info provided so will have this checked out by an audio tech when we have our tv installed. We can go from there if it needs replacing but they would be best to troubleshoot.

4) Black formica trim facing (on wall where tv will be installed) lifting at bottom 1". If monster glue will work I can easily fix this but may let them have a try since it will be in for service.

5) Cabinet edges rough on one cabinet, this also seems common but can sand and caulk/fill to look much better. I trust only me to fix this one!

6) On window side of bed (my side, eye level ) there is a small buckle where the panel ends on a rivet under the window. It is the only annoying flaw (to me not Dan!), something that would not affect the sale had I noticed it, but is an imperfection that I stare at when I go to bed. I will always be able to pick "my baby" out of a crowd though

Overall quality is great, no leaks no squeaks, and we can't wait to take it out again when the crazy rain stops pouring down on us in So Cal

Will edit this post to include manufacture date...it's at Dan's work but we keep forgetting to look!

Barbara
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