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Old 10-29-2004, 09:35 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
(snip) This is the first year back in a while for the vista views. That could be a learning curve for them. (snip)

FWIW I think it may be the window itself leaking? I had to purchase a replacement Vista View for my 1975 unit. I did not check it very carefully before installing it, if I had it would have been returned to the factory ASAP. The were air gaps in the sealant between glass and the frame. Unfortunately I had already installed it before I discovered it was leaking and I AM NOT going to remove and reinstall 57 more rivets. I contacted Airstream tech support and they reccomended resealing it with the ACRYL-R sealant. I am going to use Vulkem because that is what I have and have used on the others with good results.

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Old 12-12-2004, 02:47 PM   #42
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Anyone else have a 2005, please post your findings, good, not so good or otherwise. It is important that you include the month and year-- since some 2005s are built in 2004 or manufacture.
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Old 12-19-2004, 09:18 AM   #43
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Picked up my 05 25' CCD on Friday. I don't have much to add as of yet since I won't be taking it out on a trial run until later this week. So far here's a few things I can share in regards to the workmanship/quality:

1) That squeeky floor problem you read about between the dinette and stove? I got it too! Mostly just a squeak, and/or a banging sound. Almost sounds like popping metal sometimes.

2) It seems whoever put the window in wasn't paying too much attention
to what they were doing. About 1 and 4 screws are eiether missing or
missed the hole altogether. There is aabout 1 3/4" separation between the window frame and body where the screws bent over/broke and missed the hole.

3) Upper cabinets, again screws bent over and missed the hole in a couple places.

4) I got the upgraded audio/video package and all seems to work great. The only thing I'd say is be carefull how you interpret the "12 volt" TV. It is 12 volt, but requires 110v to the transformer so you can't actually use it; unless you've got 110 power hooked -- no dry camping an wathing TV off the battery. Still waiting on the dealer's answer on a few 'missing' items. I think this is a bunch of bunk, but they're trying to tell me the stereo remote and TV remote are optional items...I interpret this as "they lost them"..still waiting for a callback on these 2 items.

For the most part I can deal with a few imperfections, but when buying a top tier product line it can be a little disappointing when the numbers start to add up. All these issues should be just simple fixes. I'll let ya'll know how it goes. Mftr. date is 06/04

All in all I'm happy with it. Not trying to be negative, just posting my 'issues' as the forum topic suggests.
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Old 12-19-2004, 05:47 PM   #44
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Great info..thanks...

I too had some dealer issues. Our dealer tried to tell us that the Bambi didn't come with a fire extinguisher, or that gray "Airstream" floor mat.

A call to the factory got both sent nearly immed. If you get the run around from the dealer, make sure to contact the factory. They have always been very responsive IMHO.
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:01 AM   #45
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Talking

we finally did it!!!! we have wanted a CCD for two years & patience paid off. After one too many glasses of wine I visited the Colonial airstrem page at 2:30 am & found a "used" 2005 CCD 25" for 39 k . Called and bought it for 38 k over the phone. Drove from NH to NJ and inspected. The dealer said the previous owners were from CT and had upgraded. The dealer could not tell me to what however. the condition was almost like new, all stickers and literateur/tape still in refrigerator, shower and stove. There were two Reese anti sway Cams on the trailer so it had been towed. The Date of manufacture was 09/04 verified by both the vin plaque and the inspection stickers still inv the shower.Spent the first night in her on the way home and really spent some time inspecting.

Defects: There is a hump in the floor between the stove and dinette

Door must be slamed 3x as hard as seems prudent to shut it properly (anyone else have this problem?)need to have this addresed as we are keeping her heated year round to ski out of on our day off

There are nicks on the trim on the pantry corner

There is a repair to thecabinet over the couch w/ coverup paint on the white formica about the sizeof a screw head

The waste water rinse hose has a cover that wont stay closed


I am very happy w/ this unit and its condition w/ the exception of the door, hopefully the fix is a simple adjustment

I was going to take her to Sunday River to go skiing today however we have to stay home "dont want to tow her in the snow & have to plow our restaurant" so after the holiday week (got to feed all the skiers to pay for her!)
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:14 AM   #46
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Congrats Weissbrewer!

When you have time, can you post the build month and year. The tag for it can be found on the streetside front on a little square metal patch.
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Old 12-20-2004, 12:32 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weissbrewer
we finally did it!!!! we have wanted a CCD for two years & patience paid off. After one too many glasses of wine I visited the Colonial airstrem page at 2:30 am & found a "used" 2005 CCD 25" for 39 k . Called and bought it for 38 k over the phone. Drove from NH to NJ and inspected. The dealer said the previous owners were from CT and had upgraded. The dealer could not tell me to what however. the condition was almost like new, all stickers and literateur/tape still in refrigerator, shower and stove. There were two Reese anti sway Cams on the trailer so it had been towed. The Date of manufacture was 09/04 verified by both the vin plaque and the inspection stickers still inv the shower.Spent the first night in her on the way home and really spent some time inspecting.

Defects: There is a hump in the floor between the stove and dinette

Door must be slamed 3x as hard as seems prudent to shut it properly (anyone else have this problem?)need to have this addresed as we are keeping her heated year round to ski out of on our day off

There are nicks on the trim on the pantry corner

There is a repair to thecabinet over the couch w/ coverup paint on the white formica about the sizeof a screw head

The waste water rinse hose has a cover that wont stay closed


I am very happy w/ this unit and its condition w/ the exception of the door, hopefully the fix is a simple adjustment

I was going to take her to Sunday River to go skiing today however we have to stay home "dont want to tow her in the snow & have to plow our restaurant" so after the holiday week (got to feed all the skiers to pay for her!)
We have to slam our door pretty hard to get it shut completely as well. Ours is a 2004 30' Classic Ltd that was manufactured at the end of April. I put some silicone spray on the latches periodically and that seems to help for a day or so but then its back to slamming it shut. I haven't been too concerned otherwise about it though. We also couldn't get the deadbolt to work soon after we bought it; a return to the factory solved that by putting in a spring was apparently missing from it.

Some of your other issues also sound familiar as well - We have numerous quality problems with our floor, abundant nicks and scratches inside and out. The factory service used white paint to cover a rather larger gouge in our bathroom wall that has a grayish color wallpaper - ugh!

John
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Old 12-20-2004, 03:10 PM   #48
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We had to slam our door pretty hard too. The lock moved with the key as well. After factory service it shuts easier now, the deadbolt slide was installed backwards. Now there is quite a bit of play on the inside handle, wondering if that is okay?

Hazards: Metal shavings every where causing minor cuts when unsuspectingly encountered, good 1/4 cup of debris and loose hardware in converter area; Refrigerator vent discolored and caulk embedded with metal shavings, cleaned; First wash of Airstream brought and uncovered many metal shavings, proceed with caution when washing roof and crevaces

Finishes: Patio light collar was discolored and replaced, faucet base plate was peeling and replaced,

Wiring: 12volt did not work from the outlet in the rear, wired to tail lights, new wire ran

Hardware: Screen door had a gap on top, lock notch left open, door adjusted and flap installed to seal opening; step was crooked and one latch not catching well and opened during transit, straightened underbelly pan and adjusted

working mechanics: All the window handles slip and turn and one off, lubricated windows and tightened; Overhead locker hinge bent and moving, replaced; Awning wheels did not seat squarely in locking position, awning adjusted

Furniture: Writing desk not level and bent wire, fixed three times, Fold down dining table bellied and unlevel, adjustments made, new table ordered but now told by service when asking for arrival that it was adjusted pretty good (?) Rear nightstand drawer comes out during transit, hubby rebent wire lip, may need better solution

Cosmetics: Tuck in overhead locker fabric, fixed, delamination of fabric various places, Corian stove top not flush, bumpers inserted

Minor: Most curtain stoppers broken or cracked from screw torque, replaced; flourescent light covers not seating properly through flex, retainer trim trimmed accordingly

Connections and storage: Sewer hose connector leaked, replaced; rear bumper drawer not closing, gasket installed, underbelly storage doors not closing, adjusted as much as possible, rear storage door cables pulled out twice, hubby fixed and considering alternative fix, battery doors not flush, adjusted

Dometic: Climate Control Panel would not work on high fan in air or heat, circuit breaker would trip, swapped out part in air conditioner, air conditoner leak,sealed at drip tube connection to pan and found small leak

Atwood: Furnace blower would not turn off, no heat, sail switch was hung up, hubby fixed with using cardboard as a spacer behind

Murphy's Law: Flat tire during prep at dealers

There were various other minor things, such as a bit of debris under the door corner of the vinyl but after seeing the fix (a strap of metal) in another unit I figured we're good, not really noticeable unless you are wiping up the floor, and consider ourselves fortunate to not have the slits, holes, and bumps as many others have. Adhesive sparyed all over the window latches, an abandoned tool, and the usual variability of hand assembly.

Some work was done by the dealer in prep, some back to the dealer for service, but the bulk was done and I was quite satisfied by the factory service. Whereas at the dealer (and I'm not naming names) things like the door and the step and the awning were said to be fine. The dealer offered to pick-up and return the Airstream but we opted for the trip to the factory to make sure it was done and done right.

We spent three nights at the Terraport very comfortably, only the 7:00 a.m. evacuation was rough on me. We enjoyed the factory tour, the vintage units on display, the many different kinds of units on the grounds, the internet access, the store, and the complimentary lattes in the comfy lounge. We also met a lot of nice Airstreamers there. Service, reception, and technicians were the most friendly and tolerant that I have ever experienced. No concern was received as trifling however "picky" I was being. We were made comfortable physically and emotionally and treated with respect from what I would have to tout as the best of hosts.
While we were there we had the Airstream washed and Walbernized and I picked up additional fabric and a carpet piece for future projects to personalize our new home away from home.

I highly encourage anyone to make the trip for service if necessary, as I don't think you will be disappointed.

We are very pleased with the quality and design of our Airstream and the way they stand behind their product 100%.

And Twink, this post's for you.
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:55 PM   #49
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I don't mean to be overly critical, but after reading these posts about so many quality control problems in new units, I am amazed that the answer always seems to be: take it back to Jackson Center; they will get the job done right. Isn't that where these trailers came from--with the job so often NOT done right? Why does it take a second trip at the owner's expense and discomfort to get an Airstream "done right"? IF Jackson Center stands by its product and cures its quality miscontrol problems, why aren't they putting the effort into the product when it is on the line in the first place? Seems like a few heads should roll to get quality control back to quality. Just mystified, that's all.
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:31 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by maxandgeorgia
I don't mean to be overly critical, but after reading these posts about so many quality control problems in new units, I am amazed that the answer always seems to be: take it back to Jackson Center; they will get the job done right. Isn't that where these trailers came from--with the job so often NOT done right? Why does it take a second trip at the owner's expense and discomfort to get an Airstream "done right"? IF Jackson Center stands by its product and cures its quality miscontrol problems, why aren't they putting the effort into the product when it is on the line in the first place? Seems like a few heads should roll to get quality control back to quality. Just mystified, that's all.
The answer to your question is obvious: Airstream management doesn't have the least bit of interest in building quality units. And no offense, Carol (with reference to your post a short while ago) but as long as people have all these problems, and are nonetheless happy with Airstream, they will continue to build units that way -- very sloppily.

Our house, which is 15 years old and 10x the size of our Airstream, doesn't ever have as much debris on the floor as a lot of new Airstreams do when they are delivered to customers. Why should Airstreams leave the factory with all this garbage left in them?

And, why shouldn't they at least be able to build trailers after all these years with drawers that stay shut. They know exactly how to build then so the drawers will stay shut, but they won't do it.

There's only one anwser. They don't care at all.
John
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Old 12-20-2004, 08:48 PM   #51
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A concern ???

I'm a little more than concerned when following these posts of the 05's that A/S has a flooring problem, starting back with the 04's. More than one post has mentioned having some kind of flooring problem between the fridge & sink area. I feel whatever changes A/S made in that underbelly area, it has created a future weak flooring problem. Most likely it will show up after warranty expires. Owners expense!!!
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:08 PM   #52
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My observations from my first couple days of going over things kinda leeds me to believe Thor has gotten caught up in a lot of different lines each with it's own intended audience. I bought the AS for quality reasons and more or less the design/look of the unit. It just seems odd at the number of silly quality issues I'm reading about.

If Thor wants to build Dutchmens, that's great, they're actually pretty nice units. But when they start building AS's which cost considerably more, one would think they should get a higher quality unit. Not that anything is perfect, but a new AS should be -closer- to perfect than a many of the other Thor product lines; unfortunatley this doesn't seem to be the case. Afterall AS is kinda like Thors flagship product. You pay more, and you expect more.

I do feel that no product is perfect, and it's really about getting as close to perfecti as possible. Sometimes it's how well a company handles it's mistakes. AS seems to be doing well in this area according to most, but at the same time there shouldn't be so many petty quality issues to begin with when your paying for an upper tier product.

My only -real- gripe is the squeaky floor, it's obvious I'm not the only one.
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Old 12-20-2004, 10:31 PM   #53
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A few more thoughts

I have posted my list here to help to continue to track issues. When we looked for our Airstream, thanks to this forum we had some idea of what to expect and what to be wary of. I was hesitant to post in this regard but I appreciate the usefullness of the information here and finally decided it was something I could and should do for others as it was done aforetime for me.

There is the bad news but also there is the good news. The lists stand for themselves, the conclusions are always subject to interpretation. Personally I think if Airstream has to charge more to impliment ways to cut down on issues easily corrected than it still would leave the buyer ahead in the long run. Time, additional expense and frustration is not the expenditure that the new Airstream owner wants to make.

We did not order our unit. We have seen units we would not buy. But I have not seen another product that I would rather have right now. This is our sixth unit and our second Airstream. My warranty list has not shaken my opinion of Airstream producing a quality product. That is not to say it is the best product in the industry, nor that it could not improve, or that I was very happy and eager to work at getting redress.

It is not my expertise to decide where along the chain of command things are going askew. But I venture to guess it's not due to the worker on the floor with a particular production load to handle, the man or woman behind the front desk or the benevolent ones placed at the front lines of returning customers.

In this day and age, I cannot imagine anyone here has not been touched in some way by the effects of demanding increased productivity and diminishing returns. I don't see Airstream as a culprit to be villianized but then show me "the man" with all our money in his pocket and I'll sing you a different tune.

I agree with you John, but my being unhappy won't be what impacts them, others not purchasing units is what may eventually hit home.




Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfisher
The answer to your question is obvious: Airstream management doesn't have the least bit of interest in building quality units. And no offense, Carol (with reference to your post a short while ago) but as long as people have all these problems, and are nonetheless happy with Airstream, they will continue to build units that way -- very sloppily.

Our house, which is 15 years old and 10x the size of our Airstream, doesn't ever have as much debris on the floor as a lot of new Airstreams do when they are delivered to customers. Why should Airstreams leave the factory with all this garbage left in them?

And, why shouldn't they at least be able to build trailers after all these years with drawers that stay shut. They know exactly how to build then so the drawers will stay shut, but they won't do it.

There's only one anwser. They don't care at all.
John
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Old 12-21-2004, 06:27 AM   #54
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squeeky floor

I'm debating whether to drop the belly pan on my 2005 to fix the squeek myself or take it to a dealer for coverage under warranty. I was in a 2004 last month and it had the same squeek between the dinette and sink area although not as loud. I'm also getting one now in the hall by the bedroom and shower.
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:52 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested

And Twink, this post's for you.


Nice post! Very detailed....also a lot of the things you posted about metal shavings and a number of other issues I exp with both the '03 Bambi and '04 Safari. On the shavings bit on the outside, I made a decison to wash the roof first and then change sponges to do the rest as the roof had a number of those pesky shavings that imbed into the sponge, which is hard to get all of it out and will scratch the shell. For those that wash the first few times yourself....uses several wash rags, sponges or whatever you use!

....I also have a lot of faith in the factory folks making it right after being there as well.
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:55 AM   #56
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It appears that all these posts should be going to Airstream.
I hope that is happening...I would like to purchase a 'new' unit, but maybe I should just keep my '93 Excella with no squeeks....or other any other problems...
I guess they built it better in the past...
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Old 12-21-2004, 07:58 AM   #57
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See, if I understand the issue correctly, the factory folks that build 'em get paid for getting numbers out the door. The service folks I don't think are in the same pay structure.

I think the only way to get it right is to really, really enforce it and if it isn't being done, start taking money out of the paychecks for each issue that isn't being done right that has to come back to be re-done...and don't take it out of just the line person, but also the person that signed off on the various QCs. I don't think rasing the price is the right way to go, but it has been done for over two years now....each year had a beyond cost of living increase and yet a fair number of issues still are happening. So folks are paying more for new Airstreams every year and getting similar results. Sadly it's just a numbers game. Build as many as you can, get them sold since they can barely keep up with demand, deal with any issues later (which are a tax deduction for them by the way--cost of doing business), only issue is that it usually is a pain in the behind to find a good service center or one that is less than 2 hours away on average. So any fix pretty eats a whole day just in commute times.

I agree, some of the issues are clearly still in need of attention. I will say that some areas I have seen have gotten better. It is sad that there are still a number of the same old, same old issues. Keep in mind though, that some issues discussed, like A/C units, heaters, etc, are slightly out of Airstream's control. They buy the same units others buy, they don't build those machines themselves, but do also stand behind them should they fail....but you're also right...doors and windows should be aligned properly and if not caught...I also know that some settling can happen when in transit. It's not an easy job to build an Airstream, but I agree, there is still work to be done from the sound of the .05ers on the build.

My fav so far was the 12v inside outlet that was wired to the rear tail lights.

Oh and by the way....if you think Airstream doens't know about this site and doesn't read it, think again...they do!
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Old 12-21-2004, 09:13 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Oh and by the way....if you think Airstream doens't know about this site and doesn't read it, think again...they do!
Not only do they know about this site and routinely read these posts, but I was asked by Airstream management, as others were asked (I have been told), not to post our quality concerns here. They would prefer that eveyone not know about these quality problems.

However, if this communication only informs potential customers what to look for when they buy a unit, and does not encourage Airstream build better units, then I believe it still serves a valuable purpose.

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Old 12-21-2004, 10:53 AM   #59
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John ---I'm sure you'r right in that AS probably doesn't like their problems being aired publicly but really doubt it's of much concern. I think a pole of those on this forum would show that most never looked here until they were owners. It would be interesting to know. You are exactly right in that the only thing that will change anything is if people quit buying their product. We went to an RV ralley and show our selling dealer put on back in Oct. Had talked of trading our 16 CCD for a 25 CCD if we could work out a fair trade difference. After doing a walk through, not a close inspection mind you, of the 3 units in their inventory I told my wife I didn't want to spend another year reassembling another trailer. We walked with MONEY IN OUR POCKET. Am not saying I would never purchase another AS but I will never as long as the quality is like it is. Finally I do appreciate the factorys service departments attitude but not everyone lives close by. When I spoke to them they while more than happy to take care of any problems but didn't seem to be concerned that I live 1500 miles away. It was like "bring it on over and we'll get right on it!" I continue o be hopefull that change will occur but have yet to see any sign of it.----Pieman
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Old 12-21-2004, 12:24 PM   #60
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Pieman -

Your story about having a CCD, and looking at new CCD's at the RV show, reminds me of a story I head from another CCD "owner" this past October when I was at the factory waiting for some repairs on my Airstream.

There was a fellow there at the time who was REALLY upset. He and I spoke at length -- what else is there to do when you're waiting for your unit to be repaired?

He was a business owner in the northeast, and his wife was an attorney. He said he had already paid his dealer the entire purchase price for a new 2005 28' CCD, but then had rejected taking delivery on 3 straight units.

The first CCD was already in the dealership inventory, but when he looked it over it had too many quality issues, so he asked the dealer to order another one from the factory. When that CCD arrived at the dealership, he said the dealer took it to an RV show (without telling him), and he refused to take delivery of it when he later found out. I don't know if he even bothered to look at it, but he concluded that 50,000 people tromping through "his" trailer wasn't something he wanted (nor would I).

The dealer ordered a third CCD and when this one arrived it had very large, unsightly scratches near and around the entrance door, inside and out. The guy said he'd had it by that time, so he took off work for several days, insisted that the dealer return the CCD to the factory, and he followed the trailer there to give them a piece of his mind, and to see that these problems were fixed before he'd accept delivery.

He showed me this CCD in the factory service shop, and I know that several of Airstream's top guys saw it and discussed it with him. Why in the world Airstream would build, much less ship, a unit looking that one is beyond me.

If anybody wonders why I say that Airsteam management isn't concerned about building quality units, it's due to experiences like that one, as well as with my own Airstream experiences over the course of this past year, that convinces me that's the case.

John

ps. That fellow was an architect who built expensive homes. He told us of his clients who sometimes ordered very expensive items for their homes, where he had workmen wear gloves so they wouldn't get scratches on the items. He said he'd never stay in business if he delivered products like that CCD.

I suppose he wouldn't.
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