Canada Border Still closed

[waninae39]

were back after camping for two months in N Ontario

here is what others told us.
You can travel from BC all the way east to Quebec.
In Manitoba, you are NOT allowed to stop except for GAS, pee and food. No camping, all out of province license plates will be tracked.

Eastern Canada (NS, NB and PEI are in a separate bubble). Only those within those three provinces can go aropund.

For US people coming through Canada heading to alaska, your license is tracked and sent to all local and national police.

To date over a dozen of US people have been fined. The largest was over $25,000 for multiple repeat offences

[pjshier]

Relatives from Tucson needed to return there from work in Haines, AK for medical appointments. Letter from the Dr. said so. Relatives have AZ license plates, driver's license, AZ home address. Let through the Haines Jct. Canadian border with instructions to report when leaving by most direct route, do not pass go, etc.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

Just curious what is the Covid protocol in Vancouver where there are such few cases? Is it that Canada closed its borders to anyone entering the country or something else.

It is BC and not just Vancouver, and it is a little hard to summarize in a short post, but here are some elements of it:

1) Public health officials and elected government officials are on the same page here. They have joint press conferences. They are very aligned. Their decisions seem to be more science and evidenced based than some jurisdictions.

2) We have a provincial medical health officer who is a recognized world expert. She isn't a fan of too many strict rules, she prefers to guide people's actions by education and requesting support for initiatives. She got such buy in that she became a folk hero to many.

3) It was BC who pushed the federal government to close the border with the US, because results in Washington State were very different than in BC earlier on. But those results were better in BC even before the border was closed to non essential travel.

4) People generally got on board with the new rules. It was seen as a civic duty, more than freedoms being restricted.

[PatLee]

Canada is taking care of Canada. With over 8 million Covid-19 cases diagnosed in the U.S. (387,000 in the last week), and 218,000 deaths (600 deaths just since yesterday), it no wonder Canada wants no part of our problem. Go Canada!
New Zealand has decided to keep their country closed until 2022. Given their incredible success story with conquering and controlling Covid-19, I'm sure they want to keep it that way. The "Today Show" on NBC this morning showed the country's citizens walking with no masks, living life normally i.e. shopping, visiting, watching sporting events, eating out, etc. It made me wistful for the 'old days.'

[rucos]

Originally Posted by jcl

It is BC and not just Vancouver, and it is a little hard to summarize in a short post, but here are some elements of it:

1) Public health officials and elected government officials are on the same page here. They have joint press conferences. They are very aligned. Their decisions seem to be more science and evidenced based than some jurisdictions.

2) We have a provincial medical health officer who is a recognized world expert. She isn't a fan of too many strict rules, she prefers to guide people's actions by education and requesting support for initiatives. She got such buy in that she became a folk hero to many.

3) It was BC who pushed the federal government to close the border with the US, because results in Washington State were very different than in BC earlier on. But those results were better in BC even before the border was closed to non essential travel.

4) People generally got on board with the new rules. It was seen as a civic duty, more than freedoms being restricted.

here is a NY Times article on Dr Bonnie Henry who has been leading the fight here in BC. She has been amazing and the politicians have basically let her run how we fight covid. Things aren't perfect here but even though we have the lowest Covid count in BC we on Vancouver Island are still mostly being careful social distancing and wearing masks. Stay safe .https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/w...ronavirus.html

[rucos]

as a further note the government this morning announced the border will stay closed until at least Nov 21

[GOUSC]

Thanks for all the replies from our neighbors to the North. Its good to see some success against this disease. My initial thoughts after reading this is that it appears individuals in Canada appear to be taking more responsibility to prevent the spread than individuals in the U.S. My wife is currently on Chemo for ovarian cancer so we take Covid very precautions seriously and have been successful to date in that area.

Reading the NYT article on the BC doctor it appeared she was not recommending anything different there than recommended in the States. The only difference appeared to be that the majority of Canadians follow the recomendations.

The other thing that appeared to be different is that Canada has closed their borders not only to the U.S. but also to some extent between Provinces. i.e. BC citizens can't travel East past a certain point and NB /NS/PEI are in their own bubble area. Is that determined at the National level or the Province area?

I thought I read in one of the posts that the more populated areas in middle Canada were not as successful in controlling the virus. Is there something they are not doing that BC is or is that area just more populated and harder to control?

In the States, my understanding is that the Governor of each State makes the recommendations. If the U.S. were to adopt the practices of Canada and New Zealand, it appears to me we should close off the borders to prevent others countries from entering and prevent our citizens from leaving. In addition, when hot areas such as existed in Washington State and NY came up initially we should have closed off entry and exit from those States to others. I am curious how the movement between the different Provinces in Canada was enforced / controlled and if those decisions were made at the National / Province or Individual level.

Am I understanding this correctly or is there something more that I am missing?

[Julie-Bob]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

Thanks for all the replies from our neighbors to the North. Its good to see some success against this disease. My initial thoughts after reading this is that it appears individuals in Canada appear to be taking more responsibility to prevent the spread than individuals in the U.S. My wife is currently on Chemo for ovarian cancer so we take Covid very precautions seriously and have been successful to date in that area.



Reading the NYT article on the BC doctor it appeared she was not recommending anything different there than recommended in the States. The only difference appeared to be that the majority of Canadians follow the recomendations.



The other thing that appeared to be different is that Canada has closed their borders not only to the U.S. but also to some extent between Provinces. i.e. BC citizens can't travel East past a certain point and NB /NS/PEI are in their own bubble area. Is that determined at the National level or the Province area?



I thought I read in one of the posts that the more populated areas in middle Canada were not as successful in controlling the virus. Is there something they are not doing that BC is or is that area just more populated and harder to control?



In the States, my understanding is that the Governor of each State makes the recommendations. If the U.S. were to adopt the practices of Canada and New Zealand, it appears to me we should close off the borders to prevent others countries from entering and prevent our citizens from leaving. In addition, when hot areas such as existed in Washington State and NY came up initially we should have closed off entry and exit from those States to others. I am curious how the movement between the different Provinces in Canada was enforced / controlled and if those decisions were made at the National / Province or Individual level.



Am I understanding this correctly or is there something more that I am missing?

The Constitution gives the power to the states not the federal. That is why each state attack the Wuhan Virus differ. Some are open some are not. The Federal government can only step in the states when asked by the governor. It’s called States Rights.

[JonDNC]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

.



Am I understanding this correctly or is there something more that I am missing?

What he said the power is at the state level. That has it’s pluses and minuses.

Good luck to your wife. Chemo is no fun.

[GOUSC]

Originally Posted by JonDNC

What he said the power is at the state level. That has it’s pluses and minuses.

Good luck to your wife. Chemo is no fun.

Thanks John. We will take all the help we get.

As a clarification to my question, I understand the State level situation here. I was curious what level the authority is in Canada, is it at the Province or National? Someone had to make the call to prevent travel between Provinces or areas within the Country. If at the Province level then maybe our Governors should consider something similar. I understand the Keys did something like that to keep people out for awhile. It wasn’t popular but they didn’t have the hospital resources if the breakout was bad.

If at the National level and “if” Canada has better results than the U.S. then maybe there are some emergency powers in the U.S. constitution to allow something similar. I understand limiting travel between States would open up other issues regarding transport of goods, etc but I’m assuming Canada would have the same issues and have addressed them in some way.

I like my freedoms as much as anyone but sometimes you need short term pain for long term gain. I am of the view to do something/ if that doesn’t work the keep doing something until it does work.

[JonDNC]

Don’t know the Canadian constitution or equivalent enough to comment. But some states here have done that. For example Maine, several other northern New England states and New Mexico.

[jcl]

I am not a constitutional lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

I understand our federal/provincial split in responsibilities to be very similar to the US government in concept, if not execution. Some things are the responsibility of the federal government, others are provincial. We are a federation of provinces.

Our federal government was the only one who could make a decision on national borders. Provincial authorities requested that action, but had to wait until the federal government acted.

Health care is a provincial responsibility. We have had different approaches by province to the pandemic.

The Atlantic Bubble is a cooperative effort of the four Atlantic provinces.

In terms of restrictions applied by the provincial public health officer, in BC we have seen fewer than in some other provinces. Our PHO, Dr. Bonnie Henry, has argued for more effort on getting people to cooperate, than legislating controls. That appears to have worked, at least here.

I think the most critical success factors have been related to evidence based decision making; open and frank conversations led by our public health and elected leaders; clear alignment between elected officials and public health officials; and cooperation across jurisdictions (federal/provincial, province to province, health ministry to finance ministry, etc). It often mattered more that they were saying the same thing, than the specifics of what that direction is, IMO. We all tuned in to joint press conferences by our health minister and Dr. Henry, several times per week, for months. They took questions. They said the same things over and over. Their mission was to get people working with them, not to order them. It became clear that Dr. Henry had been through this before. And so the elected officials made supporting her their top job. I think that was the smartest thing they did as elected officials. The public popularity of our premier went way up. He had a minority government. He became among the most popular premiers in Canada. And he did it by getting out of the way much of the time, and ensuring that the teams had what they needed, not by positioning himself in front.

[JonDNC]

The reality of it is it depends where you live in the US. My state NC is seeing a modest increase but my county is seeing next to no new cases. While it’s serious this is not an extinction level pandemic ( something with an 80%+ death rate would be). It just requires common sense based on your or your family’s risk factors/ tolerance for risk.

There will be a vaccine late this year or next hopefully that will put this behind us and we can return to the new normal.

[GOUSC]

Thanks JCL,

If I'm reading this correctly, in Canada, even though responsibility is at the Provincial level, the same message is being communicated across all provinces and at the National level as well. Everyone in the Country is on the same page.

In addition, you didn't have to legislate any action as all the individuals were educated with the same message and bought into the recommendations. It also appears that your Provincial Health Minister and Dr. Henry held press conferences and to Q&A's from the public to educate them on the process. I have a feeling this latter action was the more critical one as the public felt they had input to the process. As such, your Premier could just stay out of the way and let let the Provinces do their job.

I live in NC like John. I do not recall any press conferences from our Governor and the Lead Health advisor for NC with Q&A's from the general public available. I've seen Covid breifings from the National Level but none at the local level. The National briefings allowed Q&A's from the Media but not citizens.

It appears to me that the U.S. doesn't have the full buy in at the citizen level the way you describe your Province as the U.S. citizens do not appear to have been involved in the process the way the citizens of BC appear to have been.

I'm not sure if all the U.S. Governors have met to determine a coordinated Covid process the way you describe in Canada. If they have then I don't think they did a good job as I'm not aware of it. Since the States have the authority in this matter it would appear to me that is the step we are missing here. I get the feeling that each State in the U.S. is acting in each State's best interest which seems different that the approach you describe in Canada.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

Thanks JCL,

If I'm reading this correctly, in Canada, even though responsibility is at the Provincial level, the same message is being communicated across all provinces and at the National level as well. Everyone in the Country is on the same page.

In addition, you didn't have to legislate any action as all the individuals were educated with the same message and bought into the recommendations. It also appears that your Provincial Health Minister and Dr. Henry held press conferences and to Q&A's from the public to educate them on the process. I have a feeling this latter action was the more critical one as the public felt they had input to the process. As such, your Premier could just stay out of the way and let let the Provinces do their job.

I live in NC like John. I do not recall any press conferences from our Governor and the Lead Health advisor for NC with Q&A's from the general public available. I've seen Covid breifings from the National Level but none at the local level. The National briefings allowed Q&A's from the Media but not citizens.

It appears to me that the U.S. doesn't have the full buy in at the citizen level the way you describe your Province as the U.S. citizens do not appear to have been involved in the process the way the citizens of BC appear to have been.

I'm not sure if all the U.S. Governors have met to determine a coordinated Covid process the way you describe in Canada. If they have then I don't think they did a good job as I'm not aware of it. Since the States have the authority in this matter it would appear to me that is the step we are missing here. I get the feeling that each State in the U.S. is acting in each State's best interest which seems different that the approach you describe in Canada.

I would not go so far as to say we are all on the same page, but we are at least closer than some other countries.

In BC, we had fewer restrictions, and more education, but we still had restrictions from time to time (bar closures, casino closures, elective surgeries cancelled). Other provinces had more restrictions.

There is a premier is in each province, so our provincial premier stayed out of the way and let his ministers (health, education, employment) do their jobs. Ours still got involved, but it was coordinated, they had consistent messaging. Other premiers were more visible, such as Doug Ford in Ontario for example.

We had regular COVID press conferences from the national level, the provincial level, and the municipal level. The national ones covered emergency funds, employment insurance, border closures, airlines, etc. The provincial ones covered renter protection, eviction regulations, public health issues, restart plans, etc. The municipal ones covered municipal services (rec centres, parks, emergency services for homeless populations, etc).

I don't want to pretend that it all worked perfectly here, or that we had it all figured out. Far from it. But what we did do seems to have worked better than some other jurisdictions, based not only on cases and hospitalizations, but also on economic impacts and other metrics.

Just to illustrate a counterpoint, there was a public demonstration this past weekend in Vancouver. They called it a Freedom Rally. They were very loud about no masks, that is apparently a conspiracy to control us. Also shadow governments. A theory that Bill Gates is running things. Agenda 21. The Illuminati. And quite a few references to national politics south of us, and red baseball hats. Most of us just avoided it all. They weren't treated kindly in the press. They were generally regarded as the lunatic fringe. But you can't get everyone to agree on everything.

[PatLee]

GOUSC - my understanding is that New Zealand owes their great success to rigorously enforcing contact tracing which serves to 'squash' any spread from occurring.

[GOUSC]

Originally Posted by PatLee

GOUSC - my understanding is that New Zealand owes their great success to rigorously enforcing contact tracing which serves to 'squash' any spread from occurring.

Thanks for the info. I’m always interested in what other countries are doing that have had success. Also in areas where where spikes occur like where it is reported there is a spike again in Europe. Did they change anything or, is it just that the virus is gonna do its thing in highly populated areas until a vaccine or herd immunity kicks in.

I would imagine New Zealand and South Dakota are easier to control than Italy and New York. I am really interested in Germany as they are a highly concentrated country that has a success and would also have more opportunity for International traffic in and out.

[Hittenstiehl]

Seems the US has made it a political issue versus a medical.

I liked (I think it was earlier on this thread) where a poster is said Canadians see as a civic duty they willingly perform versus some Americans see it as taking away their rights.

We follow "Epic Family Road Trip" a Canadian Ontario family on you tube. They just turned away at the Yukon border versus a two week quarantine.

[waninae39]

the USA case - rate of new case keeps growing

More than 84,000 people were diagnosed with COVID-19 across the United States on Friday, according to a Reuters tally, a record one-day increase in infections during the pandemic as the virus surges again nationwide.

The spike to 84,218 cases, breaking the record of 77,299 set on July 16, comes as University of Washington researchers forecast that the U.S. death toll from COVID-19 could reach a total of 500,000 by February.

On Thursday there were 916 reported fatalities in the United States, a day after the country recorded over 1,200 new deaths for the first time since August.

Eighteen states have reported their highest daily numbers of hospitalized COVID-19 patients since the pandemic started and on Friday, the number of COVID-19 patients in U.S. hospitals climbed to a two-month high.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by PatLee

GOUSC - my understanding is that New Zealand owes their great success to rigorously enforcing contact tracing which serves to 'squash' any spread from occurring.

And, as my son said, “it helps that they are an island”.

What a mess.

Sigh.

Maggie