Around the World Airstream #6768

[HiHoAgRV]

Stunning work

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

Stunning work

Why I’m subscribed. For that reason alone it is a great thread.

[66Overlander]

Quick Update. Short work day due to some other commitments, but more help from Bob. Got the City Water Inlet and much of the remaining PEX lines installed (though not yet clamped in place), mostly under the bed. Due to some plastic to brass fitting issues and a looming travel deadline we had to make the decision to forgo installing the Accumulator Tank at this time. I'll just have to add it later.

[dbj216]

You might not even need the accumulator tank. I think it depends on the water pump design. Some folks use the water heater tank as an accumulator.

Did you mention a deadline? Oh no! Better keep Bob around.

David

[66Overlander]

Another couple of mixed success days, with more much appreciated help from Bob! Progress, as always, has been slower then hoped for. The trailer will miss it's intended maiden voyage. That's life, I guess.

Regarding progress, some test fitting of the below floor drain lines began, but not all lines have been roughed in and nothing is permanently installed yet. The spacing to fit it all in is tight, especially routing the gray water pipe thru the existing hole in the main rail to the "collector" and hose connection point. Extending and routing the dump valve pull handles has proven a challenge as well, especially because the gray water valve will be between the main rails inside the belly pan with the pull hand needing to pass thru the curbside main rail to the side of the belly wrap.

Inside, the new water heater close out panel has been made and riveted in place. The PEX lines under the bed have been secured in place with clamps, but we will need to tweak them in the kitchen area before the kitchen counter goes in. The fresh water fill and kitchen drain lines have been test fit under the bed as well, but are not permanently installed yet.

The hinged shelf above the bed base has been permanently installed. And in anticipation of a refit of the gaucho/bed cushions tomorrow, the bed base, both the bedroom and front bed slides, and the kitchen wall have been temporarily installed with a few screws, but they will all eventually have to come back out to allow some other work to be finished before they are installed permanently. Still the photo with them in place, even temporarily, is encouraging.

[66Overlander]

Today's progress was just a trip to the foam store to pick up and test fit the gaucho cushions. After a little tweaking since we first looked at them, we think they came out great.

The cushions were not in very long. They are now stored in the house until we get the trailer ready for them to be permanently installed. Besides some work yet to do under the bedroom slide, both slides need to come back out to have their leading edges recovered in the same fabric as the cushions. I have not had time to get to that task yet.

[Hittenstiehl]

66, question on the last two images, the front goucho as a bed and couch. Are those two images with different cushions. Or the before and after.

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by Hittenstiehl

66, question on the last two images, the front goucho as a bed and couch. Are those two images with different cushions. Or the before and after.

Same "after" cushions in both photos, except that I removed the armrests in the bed photo. The curved section at the very front in the bed photo is hidden under the back of the couch in the couch photo, and thus isn't seen, but is there. The couch bottom and back cushions are attached together via a cloth hinge.

[Hittenstiehl]

Okay had to look at it again several times and got it. The armrests curve over the front edges of that bottom cushion. It was a photograph illusion. Thx

[66Overlander]

Some people may have noticed a long pause in posts on this thread. That is because Lorrie and I took a little trip . . . well actually a fairly long one. We went to the WBCCI International Rally in Salem Oregon at the end of June and took our time meandering home, finally arriving in early August. I then had quite a few house and other non-Airstream projects to catch up on after months of intense focus on the 1962 Safari (a.k.a. Cramer).

The goal had been to get Cramer to the 2018 WBCCI International Rally to participate in a variety of activities, including several celebrating the 55th Anniversary of the start of the 1963-64 Around the World Caravan. Well, Cramer didn't get "done enough" to make the trip, so we took our other Airstream. Four other trailers from the ATWC did make!!! (out of the 6 we had expected - one other didn't make it because of a tow vehicle problem). The 4 ATWC trailers present were the largest such gathering in one place in decades - we had:
#83 - A 1962 22' Flying Cloud taken ATW by Photographer Fran & Tally Hall
#692 - A 1963 24' Tradewind taken ATW by Virgil & Grace Golden
#5289 - A 1962 26' Overlander taken ATW by Dr. Floyd & Ruth Yeager
#8671 - A 1962 22' Safari taken ATW by Cecil & Mary Tolle

Even more interesting, we had 3 ATWC participants attend the Rally! All were "kids" at the time, although one was an advanced scout with her brother, often traveling ahead of the main group.

I put on two presentations related to the ATWC. We had an ATWC slide show put on by one of the participants, and a Q&A session with all three participants. We even showed a newly digitized version (in better color) of the 5-part ATWC Movie narrated by Vincent Price, courtesy of Airstream Inc. It was a great rally (and yes there were many other activities, the ATWC stuff was just a small part)!

Lorrie and I were sorry that Cramer didn't make it, but so glad we were there for all of the ATWC activities. Cramer will have to target the next ATWC celebration, whenever and wherever that might be.

After addressing my "home" projects, and then a couple of days chasing down trailer parts, I finally got back to work on Cramer today. My next post will detail today's progress.

[66Overlander]

Today the bedroom bed slide, bed base, and bedroom-kitchen wall came back out (they were only temporarily installed to test fit the new cushions) so that I could continue working on the plumbing that resides below the bed. And so that I can soon recover the front of the bed slide in the same fabric as the new cushions.

When trying to make Salem, we cut corners and the fresh water tank was installed without a drain or a strainer (to protect the pump) due to the lack of time and proper parts. In the end, we never even got to the point of testing the system with water, so today the plumbing from the fresh tank to pump was revised to add a drain and a strainer that were purchased just this week. I may have to go back and add clamps and/or foam to control rattles once I am able to test the system, but for now have hose loops going to the pump to try to minimize those effects of pump operation.

The original galvanized fresh tank had a large galvanized pipe that exited the belly pan thru a rather large hole that was covered by an access panel. To drain the tank, a cap had to be screwed off the large pipe. I chose to add a drain valve under the bed to make draining the tank easier (no crawling under the trailer). The new drain pipe exits the belly pan a few inches forward of the previous large access hole. I will eventually put a patch over the old hole, but did not do that today.

I did a few other minor things today as well that were not worth pictures. Work should continue tomorrow.

[dbj216]

Very nice post on the Around the World Airstream Caravan activities at the International Rally. All of that would be quite interesting to me. You got to look in detail of other Airstream models that did survive the caravan. I hope there will soon be another gathering of these famous vintage Airstreams. Why not the International Rally planned for Colorado in 2020 I think.

You are wise in my view to put the fresh water drain valve inside the trailer instead of under it. Those plastic train valves Airstream used in the 80s tended to stick and break. They are a pain.

I think I told you I attended the Rocky Mountain Vintage Airstream Club rally in Ridgway, Colorado the first of August. It was great fun to see all the old trailers and attend the rally activities. I did meet Fred Coldwell there. There were several pre-1966 Safaris in attendance.

I'll be back at the Overlander here in a month or so. I've made no progress since May.

David

[66Overlander]

Today I bolted down the fresh tank and installed the accumulator in one of the cold water lines (which should reduce pump cycling) and I reattached the kitchen shelves to the kitchen wall. I then temporarily reinstalled the kitchen drain line with rubber couplers to check for clearances to the fresh tank, bed base, and kitchen wall opening.

I am starting to think I should put some water in the fresh tank to check for leaks between the tank and pump before I permanently install the bed base and kitchen wall, since leaks will be easier to address before everything is bolted down. I am most concerned with the threaded fitting at the bottom of the tank where the pump hose attaches. A leak there would be easier to see and address while everything was out in the open and the tank would have to be partially lifted to unscrew that fitting and apply more sealant if necessary.

[66Overlander]

A light day today trailer wise. My main accomplishment was relocating the kitchen faucet shutoffs to their final position. They were previously temporarily located where the Pex ended when we ran out of Pex. Today I took measurements on the kitchen cabinet so that I could locate them where they will be reachable once the cabinet is installed.

Tomorrow perhaps I will move on to the underfloor drain plumbing.

[dbj216]

Do ATWC Airstreams have water heater bypass valves? I find them rather handy on my more "modern" trailers.

Plumbing ought to be tested before final assembly. The Airstream factory does this. I tested my plumbing with compressed air and soapy water. Threaded fittings are the only ones I've ever had a leak. The PEX clamps are rock solid. In the plastic molding factory I worked in, we tested water tanks with 2 psi air. That was an effective process also. We used propane pressure regulators to maintain the 2 psi. Plastic molded tanks won't handle much air pressure at all as you can imagine.

David

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by dbj216

Do ATWC Airstreams have water heater bypass valves? I find them rather handy on my more "modern" trailers.

Plumbing ought to be tested before final assembly. The Airstream factory does this. I tested my plumbing with compressed air and soapy water. Threaded fittings are the only ones I've ever had a leak. The PEX clamps are rock solid. In the plastic molding factory I worked in, we tested water tanks with 2 psi air. That was an effective process also. We used propane pressure regulators to maintain the 2 psi. Plastic molded tanks won't handle much air pressure at all as you can imagine.

David

Hi David,
I doubt any ATWC trailers had water heater bypasses originally. I know mine did not. I don't think Airstream started to install them until decades later.

So far I have not put a bypass into Cramer as part of my new Pex plumbing. It will be easy to add one later if I change my mind because there is enough space to do so right next to the water heater, but I have just never found a bypass to be of any real value. For 15+ years I have winterized by just draining the water heater, blowing the lines out with air, and putting a little RV antifreeze into the traps. The only value I see to a bypass is if one wished to pump antifreeze thru the cold & hot lines, something I have never done, other than possibly our first year (can't remember for sure).

At this point, I have not even put low point drains into the hot and cold lines. I debated the decision a long time and am still debating it in my mind, but I'd never rely on the low point drains alone to winterize and would follow up with air, so the value of the low point drains seems questionable too. If I were to add them, they would also go next to the water heater - that's where the original low point drains were located and is where the new Pex lines are at their lowest point in the trailer. I can add low point drains later if I change my mind.

We tested the "high pressure" side (i.e. after the pump) of the plumbing with air pressure when getting ready for Salem. No soapy water, but when the pressure did not drop a psi after an hour or two, we figured we were good. Now that I've made modifications to the hot & cold lines, I will have to do that again.

I'd love to air pressure test the "low pressure" side (i.e. from the fresh tank to the pump), but I am not quite sure how to do that. I would have to seal the vented fill cap somehow and likely disconnect the pump as I am guessing the pump check valve in the pump does not work in the opposite direction. If I was able to find a way to induce a couple of psi into the low pressure side, I think the soapy water solution would be a must as I am not sure the leak down procedure would be effective as such a low pressure - I am sure my pressure gauges are not accurate at that point on the scale. No use buying special equipment for a one time test.

It'll get posted to this thread if I ever decide to add a bypass or low point drains.

[66Overlander]

Today was another light day trailer wise. I spent some time on a creeper under the trailer temporarily installing the black tank valve and collector and making measurements so that I could mock up my below floor drain plumbing outside of the belly pan. Much better kneeling over a mock up on cardboard than trying to hold pipes over my head while laying on a creeper under the trailer.

On a large piece of cardboard I drew lines representing the main frame rails and cross members and all "ports" that I had to connect pipes to: gray water tank, bath tub, bathroom sink pipe, and discharge collector that connects the black and gray discharges to a sewer hose. I could then try different fitting layouts to see what worked best and decide where I need to cut holes in frame rails and cross members and confirm if I had all the necessary fittings.

I had a general plan in my mind and had previously worked out the connection between the gray tank and collector, but I had never finalized how the bath tub and bath sink would connect. The bath tub and bath sink will drain into the gray tank using the same pipe that will drain water out of the tank when the gray water dump valve is pulled. A wye connection makes this possible. The gray tank, gray water valve, and collector were all 1 1/2" connections, but the bath tub and bath sink pipe were 1 1/4".

The attached photos show the general plan I settled on after trying several different configurations using a variety of different 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" fittings, many of which are not shown in the photos. The result is a mix of 1 1/4" pipes and fittings in the rearmost frame bay and 1 1/2" pipes and fittings in the next bay forward, which will contain the gray water valve and connection to the gray tank and connection to the outboard collector after passing thru the existing hole in the curbside main rail.

I decided to use three rubber couplers for vibration isolation and ease of maintenance, should I ever need to change out a valve in the future. I did buy a 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" rubber coupler later in the afternoon that I did not have when I did the mock up. Most of the white pipes in the mock up will be replaced by black ABS in the final installation. My first rough mock up used white PVC years ago when I settled on a design for the custom gray water tank I had made. The PVC fittings were then returned, but the cut sections of PVC could not be returned. I later purchased black ABS pipe and fittings to match the original drain pipes on the trailer.

[dbj216]

Hi Joe: Talk about light days working on the trailer. I actually assembled my bathtub drain today. 10 minutes progress, not including the trip to the hardware store.

I have replumbed two trailers and did not plumb in low point drains. In my wife's Limited, I removed them as one of the plastic valves failed while on a trip. Otherwise we never used them. I did not including them in the Trade Wind or Overlander projects. I vote that you don't need them.

There are many recipes for winterizing. My son's 69 Globetrotter is an example of several recipes that don't work. It has several copper plumbing patches. I recently blew out all the water in my 75 Overlander, drained the old 10 gallon water heater and the holding tanks. During my renovation, I removed all of the copper plumbing about 2 months after the blow out. I was shocked at how much water was still in the lines as I sawed them up. I don't trust blow out as the only winterizing step. I always pump fresh RV antifreeze into the cold and hot until I get pink at every faucet. Note, my city water connection and pressure reducing valve do not get the benefit of RV antifreeze. So I vote for the water heater by pass valves.

You are much more experienced Airstreamer than I will ever be, so take my comments with a grain of salt. It is good fun following along with your painstaking restoration of this Cramer. It will be "best of show".

David

[66Overlander]

After a couple of days spent on other things, I finally got back to the trailer this afternoon.

First I installed the Bathroom Door Header (but not the track and door yet), so that I could feel like I actually permanently installed something today.

Then I moved on to mocking up the below floor gray water plumbing on the trailer. Figuring out the appropriate pipe slopes allowed me to determine the proper height for the hole and drill the hole in the cross member for the Bath Tub/Bath Sink pipe going to the gray tank.

I also figured out where I need to drill the hole in the main rail for the Gray Tank Valve Handle Rod, but I ran out of daylight before I got to drilling that hole.

I am attaching a photo showing the black tank dump handle mock up, though I actually drilled the new hole in the belly wrap for it before I left for Salem. Because to the Black Tank Valve Adapter Plate (from VTS) turns the valve slightly, the hole moved about 1 1/2" rearward.

The Gray Tank Valve Handle hole will eventually be about 5" forward of the original hole. I will rivet a patch over the original hole, since it will not be reused.

I am currently debating using the new Valterra Dump Handles for the Black and Gray Valves or trying to make my own handles that look more period correct, using aluminum tubes and roll pins.

I hope to complete the mock up tomorrow, then remove everything so I can paint the raw edges of the new holes I drilled and start figuring out how to insulate these bays. I am thinking I might use foam board, or Prodex, or some combination of the two, rather then fiberglass.

If I get lucky, I might even get to permanently installing some of the insulation and below floor plumbing before the weekend is over.

[66Overlander]

Well, I did not get as much done as planned today. I did get the holes drilled in the curbside main rail and belly wrap so that I could mock up the Gray Water Valve Dump Handle. I did enlarge the hole thru the main rail slightly after the photo was taken to eliminate the possibility of a rub condition.

When I went to paint the newly drilled holes in the main rail and cross member, I found that my paint had dried up inside the can. I'll buy more Glossy Black Rustoleum (brush on) tomorrow and get back at it.

I also made detailed measurements so that I can cut all of the necessary sections of black ABS pipe to the proper length, but I did not actually start cutting them yet. Maybe tomorrow.

I am still debating my underfloor insulation plan, so no progress there yet.

It's both a blessing and a curse to not be working under the pressure of a deadline.