Asking Mechanic to Torque Lug Nuts

[BeSerious]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

...
There is a wider range of "acceptable" than the very specific torque ratings might indicate.....

Agreed.

FWIW The main reason I break every lug and re-torque them isn’t to get them torqued more accurately. It is to assure that they are not so tight that I can’t remove the wheels for maintenance (e.g. replacing brake pads/shoes, etc.).

This isn’t theoretical. After a recent rotate and balance on our BMW X5 at a local tire shop, I twisted off an adapter I’ve used with an 18” breaker bar since the 60’s. I had watched the mechanics use an impact wrench & torque stick followed by a manual clicking style torque wrench. Every lug clicked immediately. So I was pretty sure the lugs might be over tight. I just didn’t think they would be that much tighter than the 100-105 ft/lbs spec.

[ROBERT CROSS]

It aint rokit seience....🤓

Just make sure the mating surfaces are clean and corrosion free, the threads are clean & dry.
Most cracked (alloy), loose or shaking, wheels that I've seen has been caused by uneven mating surfaces. Corrosion tends to compress.
In 53years I've not lost a wheel, professionally or on my own.
You just have to be smarter than the average nut.

A nice plus with the cross wrench...you can support the opposite end on a bottle or scissor jack and step on the cross bars to loosen, the DW has been able to bounce & loosen.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[Countryboy59]

My tire guy uses a torque wrench. But I insist on starting each thread myself. Had a cross thread experience once, and you find out later when you try to take them off.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by farafield

. . .
He wanted to use my torque wrench to loosen the lug nuts and I said NO! . . .

Good call, Kim, thanks for starting this thread.

In addition to the standard cross bar referenced earlier, to "break" lug nuts loose, your toolbox should also include a 1/2" drive breaker bar, some 6"/9" extensions, and a deep/thin wall socket to fit your lug nuts. A complete 1/2" drive socket set is advisable, as well as 1/4" and 3/8" drive socket sets IMO.

Happy Trails!

Peter

[rucos]

I check my lugs/airpressure usually every trip ...I keep a torque wrench in the truck and do the trailer and truck at least once every few moves on the road. I visually look at the wheels etc. every time i stop for gas etc. I also put a hand on the tires/wheels to check temperature at stops.(i have an infrared gun that I bring out if I have any temperature concerns)
Having a single axle im very aware of how things could get ugly in a hurry if a wheel/tire went.

[JCWDCW]

Here in Ontario both the repair shops and the tire stores all torque to spec, and state on the invoice that the wheels need to be checked after 100 Km. They all offer to re-torque at no charge!
Also in Ontario if a wheel comes off, it is on you, and if someone is injured you will be fined....I believe it can be up to $2000
JCW

[drbrick]

Buy a torque wrench and a wrench extender and the correct socket (we use 3/4") the whole package is under a 100 bucks. I check the lugs before each trip and every 500KM. This is called safety

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by JCWDCW

Here in Ontario both the repair shops and the tire stores all torque to spec, and state on the invoice that the wheels need to be checked after 100 Km. They all offer to re-torque at no charge!
Also in Ontario if a wheel comes off, it is on you, and if someone is injured you will be fined....I believe it can be up to $2000
JCW

Don't ignore the importance of re-torquing lug nuts! There have been two serious injuries in Southern Ontario recently where wheels came off vehicles and hit other vehicles. The charge (in Ontario) is called detached part, and the penalty is "a fine of not less than $2,000 and not more than $50,000".

[Lily&Me]

My independent tire place at home requires you sign after tire rotations that you will have the lug nuts checked and re-torqued 50 miles after receiving a tire rotation.

Maggie

[Life is a Highway]

I have a long breaker bar and a 6 point deep socket

I always put the lug nuts on hand tight in a star pattern and then use my torque wrench in a three step tightening sequence. Dividing the correct wheel torque in thirds.

It’s overkill but the proper way. It’s a loosing battle to have a mechanic use a Torque wrench. Some do most do not and cause rim damage stress the lug nuts wheel bearings and bolts.

I always ask and put it in writing on the repair order if I can’t do the torque.

[Pubtym]

Great thread. I just bought a set of torque sticks on Amazon for $50. Also final check with clicker.

[Bill M.]

How do you “re-torque” a wheel? I have just put the wrench on each lug and tightened until it clicked? Is this correct? If you have to loosen each lug and re tighten it that does not seem like a re-torque.

So far on this trip I have had the tires on my truck rotated once, have replaced 2 of them, and have had another removed and patched. None of the 3 shops, 1 a Dodge deler, have mentioned re torquing. And it has Al wheels. Actually once in the 13 years I have owned this truck a Sears store told me I needed to retorque after they installed a set of tires.

My Airstream has steel wheels. I do check it after 100 miles or so when I have had a wheel off for something. Some of the lugs move a little so I guess it “needs” it.

[ROBERT CROSS]

The nut must be loose to torque it properly.

Torquing a 'tight' nut does not give you a value, it just tells you it's tight.

Never torque a hot wheel.

Bob
🇺🇸

[TheSquire]

Originally Posted by BeSerious

I simply don’t trust “torque sticks” UNLESS they are for a lower torque than the spec and followed by the use of a manual torque wrench to the specs.

If a manual clicking torque wrench clicks without previously rotating the nut/bolt, all you know is that the actual torque is AT or ABOVE the torque wrench’s setting.

FWIW when I return home from a tire shop I break every lug nut and re-torque them to specs using my own torque wrench. When the shop uses “torque stacks” the most common error is not too little torque, but too much. One result of too much torque is that you may not be able to change a spare in case of a flat tire etc.

This is my practice too. If you have ever tried changing a flat on the side of the road after someone used an impact wrench to “guesstimate” the proper torque, it is definitely worth the cost of a decent torque wrench and 20 minutes after getting the vehicle back from the shop. I’ve had lug nuts torqued so high I needed a 3’ breaker bar to get them loose.

[rintintin]

Does not take much time to check 5e torque and this should be done before every trip or when ever there was excessive breaking. I actually check it before each travel day

[BeSerious]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

The nut must be loose to torque it properly.

Torquing a 'tight' nut does not give you a value, it just tells you it's tight....

Absolutely!
Ironically, the old fashioned “needle and dial” style torque wrenches could be used to very roughly check the torque of a very recently tighten lug nut. The needle simply pointed to the torque on the dial. It’s “very roughly” because the torque required to get a lug/nut turning again is higher than the torque required to get the lug/nut that tight. The beauty of these old style torque wrenches is that you could easily see the benefit of torquing a lug/nut slowly and smoothly.

But as I and others have posted, “modern” click style torque wrenches can only tell you the right torque when the lug/nut is still slowly and steadily turning when you hear the click. Using a torque wrench properly is a skill that many tire shops seem to lack. Luckily they are only torquing our lug/nuts and aren’t rebuilding our engines.

[Bill M.]

I bet an impact wrench does a better job of tightening and seating a wheel than most people do with a torque wrench. I think the impacts give the wheel a little nudge to seat better in the cones and there is less chance of the wheel catching on a thread and false tightening it. Impact wrench also tightens it while it is not sitting on the ground and allows it to self Center better.
I guess you could get a bad operator but most of these guys do 50 wheels a day and have a good feel for it. I just do not go to a shop that I think Bubba works at.

[Life is a Highway]

Used to teach my students with both feel and visual. We would Measure the lateral runout of a rotor with a dial indicator before and after a torque procedure.

Then Let them demo this on donated shop vehicles both with a steel wheel and aluminum rims

For kids to see and feel what a new lug nut looks like after being ranked on with a air gun beats lecturing any day.

If you can imagine the visual impact of a bullet hitting a steel plate then it’s similar to a speeding wheel lug nut when it bottoms out and hits the bolt hole. The lug nut tapered end actually mushrooms upon impact. Then when you remove it the mushroomed lug nut will slightly damaged the wheel stud threads.

I’ve seen aluminum and steel rims ruined. After impact use.

If you taught or worked non flat rate on cars you understand especially with brake rotor warpage. An Airstream does not have that problem with drums but you can elongate the rim nut hole quick with excessive over torque.

A good tech can save time running them down light with his electric or air impact then finish with the torque wrench to spec. To me a wheel torque is as important as a engine assembly torque.

In defense of some air gun enthusiasts those cheap torque wrench’s they should be checked for accuracy. Most people do not run them up and down full torque to min settings several times before using as per the instructions. Or store them in the lowest torque setting.

Aluminum rims do need more torque than steel.

Each to his own. My Automotive mentor instructor told me Why do you think a tire iron is designed to a certain length? It’s so an average strength person can tighten or loosen the lug-nut without over torque or under. Unless the guy with his 250 ft lb air gun has ranked them on before.

But if you believe that sound of the manly air gun just a hammering away on your 50-90k tow vehicle or trailer with over 150 ft lbs is the norm so be it.

Originally Posted by Bill M.

I bet an impact wrench does a better job of tightening and seating a wheel than most people do with a torque wrench. I think the impacts give the wheel a little nudge to seat better in the cones and there is less chance of the wheel catching on a thread and false tightening it. Impact wrench also tightens it while it is not sitting on the ground and allows it to self Center better.
I guess you could get a bad operator but most of these guys do 50 wheels a day and have a good feel for it. I just do not go to a shop that I think Bubba works at.

[farafield]

As usual, you get more than you pay for on AS Forums lol! Thanks everyone! I've learned a lot here and it sounds like it's a good matter to review for many who might have been doing not quite right or underestimated the importance of checking torque. I feel a lot more comfortable politely grilling anyone who is handling Bramble's lug nuts.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by BeSerious

Absolutely!
Ironically, the old fashioned “needle and dial” style torque wrenches could be used to very roughly check the torque of a very recently tighten lug nut. The needle simply pointed to the torque on the dial. It’s “very roughly” because the torque required to get a lug/nut turning again is higher than the torque required to get the lug/nut that tight. The beauty of these old style torque wrenches is that you could easily see the benefit of torquing a lug/nut slowly and smoothly.

But as I and others have posted, “modern” click style torque wrenches can only tell you the right torque when the lug/nut is still slowly and steadily turning when you hear the click. Using a torque wrench properly is a skill that many tire shops seem to lack. Luckily they are only torquing our lug/nuts and aren’t rebuilding our engines.

Guess which one I use most often...

Bob
🇺🇸