Asking Mechanic to Torque Lug Nuts

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

Yes, don't use a torque wench, it's not worth the bother to hire someone else to do this job!

I do, however, use a torque wrench to check tightness after I've driven a bit. Is there a reason I shouldn't be using a torque wrench for that? I'm not loosening and re-torquing.

Well you can use the TW if you like, but remember, if you are using a ratcheting 'click' style the ratchet feature is used for righty tighty threads. I wouldn't use it to change a wheel.

I use my manual cross wrench because I have already torqued the lugs and I'm only checking tightness.

To can only torque a nut/fixture to a set value once, loose to tight.

But like most things Airstream it's better to have a routine and do it, than not have a routine at all.

TETO

AZ...I don't use a 'breaker' bar, I use a cross wench, like my name...see above.

Bob
🇺🇸

[SYC2Vette]

Just my humble opinion and experience. Torque using calibrated torque wrench then use the manual cross bar to recheck TV and Airstream prior to launch at every stop. I checked the crossbar wrench against a torque wrench and a firm application is very close to 100 ft-lbs. Never had a really loose lug nut, but occasionally get 1/16 turn.

[dhroberts]

An unreasonable request? You are the customer - demand it! The standard is there for a reason.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you are going to do what Airstream *says* you are supposed to do, you will use a torque wrench to check the tightness (without loosening) the bolts on the wheel. You will do this at the stated mile points after a wheel goes back on.

I actually spent some time at the factory digging into this. They *do* intend for you to do it as described (using a torque wrench on a tight bolt). Their claim is that they had wheels come of in transport outbound from the factory. (like one or two a year). Once they started doing this, all of that stoped.

Yes it's wrong, yes it works (apparently).

Bob

[azflycaster]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you are going to do what Airstream *says* you are supposed to do, you will use a torque wrench to check the tightness (without loosening) the bolts on the wheel. You will do this at the stated mile points after a wheel goes back on.

I actually spent some time at the factory digging into this. They *do* intend for you to do it as described (using a torque wrench on a tight bolt). Their claim is that they had wheels come of in transport outbound from the factory. (like one or two a year). Once they started doing this, all of that stoped.

Yes it's wrong, yes it works (apparently).

Bob

That was their advise to me when I had axle work done last year. BTW, never found a loose nut (except the one behind the wheel )

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you are going to do what Airstream *says* you are supposed to do, you will use a torque wrench to check the tightness (without loosening) the bolts on the wheel. You will do this at the stated mile points after a wheel goes back on.

I actually spent some time at the factory digging into this. They *do* intend for you to do it as described (using a torque wrench on a tight bolt). Their claim is that they had wheels come of in transport outbound from the factory. (like one or two a year). Once they started doing this, all of that stoped.

Yes it's wrong, yes it works (apparently).

Bob

Why is it considered to be wrong?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by azflycaster

I also use a torque wrench to verify the tightness of the lug nts. I do not loosen them, I just crank the wrench until it clicks. The nut almost never moves meaning the nut was tight.

I would think that using a breaker bar could cause the nut to be over tightened which could cause a lug to fail.

^ correct

[ROBERT CROSS]

Even the Xspurts are confused...

From the Tire Rack website....
"When rechecking torque value, wait for the wheels to cool to ambient temperature (never torque a hot wheel). Loosen and retighten to value, in sequence using the torque procedures listed above."

....And then again 50-100mi down the road? 🥴

I'll say again, a 'breaker bar" NEVER gets near my wheels.
I only use a click torque wrench to tighten and my bob-cross lug wrench to check they are still tight.

Another 'opinion'...or informed knowledge?
https://www.askbob.aero/content/can-...-proper-torque

"Determining the degree of tightness in a joint by using a torque wrench to measure the breakaway torque is not accurate and leads to incorrect conclusions. Beware of inspectors carrying torque wrenches."


Bob
🇺🇸

[Bruce B]

I would respectfully disagree with Airstreams advice on checking torque. Every automobile manufacturers procedure I have ever encountered mandates that the fastener first be loosened. This is because of the different coefficient of friction between a fixed object and a moving object. If you observe the torque necessary to move a typical lug nut torqued to 80 pounds feet from a standstill, you would see that the initial torque needed to move the nut is far in excess of 80 pounds. Once moving the number settles into the “real” range.
Here is the Tire Racks page on the subject.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec...jsp?techid=107

[dhroberts]

What's the benefit of not torquing as AS recommends. Yes, there may be alternative views from other sources. That said, why take the chance however small you may determine the risk to be?

[Halford1]

From what I understand from Torgue is that it prevents the lug bolts from breaking. Torguing ensures that all 5 or 6 lug bolts share same amount of pressure and carry equal load weight. if two or 3 came loose that leaves the rest of bolts to carry the load weight and they WILL snap off the drum! Saw that happen before in camper and cars.

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by dhroberts

What's the benefit of not torquing as AS recommends. Yes, there may be alternative views from other sources. That said, why take the chance however small you may determine the risk to be?

Because by definition, not loosening first means you have no way of knowing that the torque of the fastener is correct. It might be or it might be loose and you would never know...

[Bill M.]

I guess I have never done the rechecking correctly in 20 years of pulling. The idea of loosening and retightning 1 lug at a time does seem to be the best idea. That way the wheel is still being held in the proper position by the other lugs. I have not had a loose trailer wheel or broken a lug nut either. So I think close enough really is.p when it comes to wheel lugs.

[ROBERT CROSS]

.....in addition.
You torque a wheel cold.
"On the road" hot wheel re-torque could cause the wheel to be loose when it cools down...
Cheese and crackers got all muddy...it ain't roket seance.

Bob
🇺🇸

[Tony Lee]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

Because by definition, not loosening first means you have no way of knowing that the torque of the fastener is correct. It might be or it might be loose and you would never know...

What!
The nuts are torqued in the first place - with a torque wrench and not by a 400 pound gorilla with single digit IQ using a 6 foot breaker bar - or more commonly, a rattle gun. Thereafter at the suggested intervals you use the same torque wrench to check that they are still at least tight to the original torque. That is it.. If they don't rotate before the wrench clicks then by definition and common sense, they were not loose enough to matter a damn.
Why would you loosen and then retorque every nut or even worse, use a long breaker bar to nip every nut up just a tad. Nuts come loose sometimes, but they don't turn themselves up tighter, and if they do, so what

BTW, The only way to measure whether the nuts are tight enough is to measure the stress/strain in the stud. Torque gives you a very rough measure provided the threads are clean and dry, the nut faces are smooth AND provided the 400 pound gorilla hasn't slopped some unidentified gunk from that bucket sitting on the ground all over the hub and studs, because if he has, a given torque could easily have overstretched the studs by a factor of two or even three to the point where all the carefully engineer-calculated factor of safety is completely negated. (some vehicles specify lubricated studs but most require clean and dry and I doubt whether any specify lubricating the clamping face of the nut

[ROBERT CROSS]

Waiting for the click with a TW has NOTHING to do with torque, you are only confirming tightness.
With the possible consequence that every 'click' raises the breakaway torque of the fastener you are 'clicking' on.

Bob
🇺🇸

Get one...they don't click, but are wonderful for installing and removing a wheel.
For checking tightness put the correct end on the nut, grab each end and go>>> errrr.

Bob
🇺🇸

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Waiting for the click with a TW has NOTHING to do with torque, you are only confirming tightness.
With the possible consequence that every 'click' raises the breakaway torque of the fastener you are 'clicking' on.

Bob
🇺🇸

Get one...they don't click, but are wonderful for installing and removing a wheel.
For checking tightness put the correct end on the nut, grab each end and go>>> errrr.

Bob
🇺🇸

What I don't understand is, if you use the cross wrench to check torque how do you know you're not over-tightening the nut? It seems like you're just relying on experience and how tight it feels.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Once again....🤓
You are NOT checking TORQUE.
You are checking to determine if the wheel nut is LOOSE, if you find that is, then loosen, cool and torque again.

Bob
🇺🇸

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by Bruce B

I would respectfully disagree with Airstreams advice on checking torque. Every automobile manufacturers procedure I have ever encountered mandates that the fastener first be loosened. This is because of the different coefficient of friction between a fixed object and a moving object. If you observe the torque necessary to move a typical lug nut torqued to 80 pounds feet from a standstill, you would see that the initial torque needed to move the nut is far in excess of 80 pounds. Once moving the number settles into the “real” range.
Here is the Tire Racks page on the subject.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec...jsp?techid=107

I agree with the article you reference, no offense to Bob X but his article is more specific to aircraft and may account for differences and tolerances of metals used.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

^ correct

A Breaker Bar is ok to loosen, saves your tendons, but I can’t imagine using it to torque or assess correct torque values.