Some trouble for Tesla

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

You're not trying very hard. You can find reports like this everywhere. But if you look a little harder, you'll find sources that refute them.

But hey, I might trust AAA to tow my car when my Auto Pilot runs it into a ditch.

That refute what? That the article I coincidentally read today and quoted didn't happen to refer to exactly what we've been discussing? Whether you agree with what it said or not, that's irrefutable.

Nope, I tried exactly hard enough.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

That refute what? That the article I coincidentally read today and quoted didn't happen to refer to exactly what we've been discussing? Whether you agree with what it said or not, that's irrefutable.

Nope, I tried exactly hard enough.

I agree you tried exactly hard enough to quote an article. I meant it gets harder to read and research other sources that might agree with, refute, or render an article as not to be taken at face value.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

I agree you tried exactly hard enough to quote an article. I meant it gets harder to read and research other sources that might agree with, refute, or render an article as not to be taken at face value.

Yes it gets harder to do that, but not every opinion or reference on a forum requires backing up with exhaustive reading and research. Besides, this thread has already pretty much covered everyone's ideas on the subject.

I was simply sharing the coincidence that I had just received my latest issue of Car and Driver and it had articles on the very thing we've been discussing. I thought that was interesting so I posted an excerpt that happened to reflect on some of the exact things that I and others had been saying. I admitted I didn't expect to change anyone's mind. End of story.

If you'd like to post articles or research to support a theory that, contrary to the item I posted, marketing terms don't actually affect consumer's expectations, I'd love to read them.

Cheers.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

Yes it gets harder to do that, but not every opinion or reference on a forum requires backing up with exhaustive reading and research. Besides, this thread has already pretty much covered everyone's ideas on the subject.

I was simply sharing the coincidence that I had just received my latest issue of Car and Driver and it had articles on the very thing we've been discussing. I thought that was interesting so I posted an excerpt that happened to reflect on some of the exact things that I and others had been saying. I admitted I didn't expect to change anyone's mind. End of story.

If you'd like to post articles or research to support a theory that, contrary to the item I posted, marketing terms don't actually affect consumer's expectations, I'd love to read them.

Cheers.

"Besides, this thread has already pretty much covered everyone's ideas on the subject."

As you state, I'll let the views of other forum members who are Tesla owners and have first hand experience with Auto Pilot be the source I'll put most weight on.

[dkparins]

Originally Posted by jcl

My Autopilot system requires that I keep my hands on the steering wheel and actually provide some movement/force at regular intervals, measured in seconds, to assure the vehicle that I am still paying attention. If I don’t do so then the system turns itself off. This safety feature isn’t hidden, there is a warning on the screen every time the feature is activated.

Now let’s consider the big 3 domestic manufacturers. They all make pickups. They all know the tongue weight and cargo limits of each vehicle. But they exaggerate ridiculously in their marketing materials, and I just picked this because it is one of the most oft discussed issues on this board. If the Big 3 were as honest as Tesla, they would have onboard scales, with payload readouts on the dash. Just as the off road mining trucks I sold in 2001 had. And if a pickup truck purchaser exceeded the safe limit, the truck would not go into gear. Now that would be honest.

There are idiots out there who are trying to trick Tesla’s safety interlocks. One way is to suspend a can of paint from a cord tied to the steering wheel. The system senses resistance to small course corrections. I am sure there are other schemes. I think they are the problem, not the system designer.

Note: I didn’t pay for “Full Self Driving”. Autopilot works for me.

This is entertaining to compare the opinion of someone that has actually experienced Tesla’s autopilot system with the opinions of others that have not and probably never will. I am excited about the prospects for autonomous vehicles and am very happy that Tesla is doing ground breaking work on it. I think the data indicates there is real potential for self driving vehicles to improve on the truly terrible driving by humans that we all see every time we venture out.

[Texarado]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

Can't we put aside such trivialities like EV performance, Autopilot snakeoilmandhip and concentrate on what's important? The Cybertruck is butt ugly!

Okay, I’m taking the bait that I always refuse to take. I mean, coffee tastes like dirty water but once you’ve had it you’ll never go back. Okay, maybe a bad (even if humorous) analogy. The EV and associated AP technology is my coffee equivalent for driving and the Cybertruck will be the same (I suspect).

As a Model 3 driver, the tech is crazy good and that does include autopilot too. Naturally, most (if not all) examples of the autopilot news are from bad apples using a tech in a way it’s not intended to be used (I.e., not paying attention and not having hand on steering wheel). It would be like dragging Porsche (or BMW, etc.) through the mud because of an idiot driver taking their turbo-charged car going 180+ down residential streets as school is letting out. An aggressive name (AP) for a product based on what it is right now? Yeah, probably. But still, amazing tech that has made their product (the car) better over the 3 year period I’ve owned it. Not bad for a “depreciating asset.”

[jondrew55]

Musk announces updated autopilot and new look for production Cybertruck.

[Texarado]

Sweet! This is awesome.

(Touché! We’ll agree to disagree on this, but will still love to share the campsite someday.)

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by jmslade

Sweet! This is awesome.

(Touché! We’ll agree to disagree on this, but will still love to share the campsite someday.)

Same. We need to go west one of these days

[John & Roberta]

The next step in public transportation will doubtless leverage the existing highway infrastructure, commute lanes first then all lanes. Heard of linear induction? As you drive commute lanes to and fro, your vehicle will charge such that you are topped off arriving and topped off back home. The cost of this “fueling up” will be slipped into your residential utility bill or office account as appropriate.

Commute lanes will use discretionary entry and exit protocols. The electronic pathway that supplies charging and driving power also captures, guides and releases. If you miss your exit—i.e. you have not demonstrated personal control of direction and speed—you are kept laned-up until you have. At some point you may find yourself stacked in a “dump lane” with fellow travelers slow to respond to the warning spiel, “End of Line . . . End of Line . . . End of Line,” at which point you will be braked to a stop, pivoted 90 degrees and invited to drive away, hands on wheel, foot on gas.

Remember the Tom Cruise movie, “Minority Report”? Want to go somewhere? Signal Taxi Central. When the flying couch arrives outside your window-door, climb in and relax as off you go. Private conveyance, and leave the driving to us (and the maintenance).

Surely this system will absorb pressure waves from over-taking semies or the surprise of an unattended pothole.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by jondrew55

Musk announces updated autopilot and new look for production Cybertruck.

Elon also announced the D1 chip, designed in house by Tesla. It is the basis of the new Dojo supercomputer, an artificial intelligence training machine, which he also announced. And just for a diversion, he announced a humanoid robot, the Tesla Bot, which uses the same FSD computer as Tesla vehicles. Think of it as just like a Tesla car, but with hands and feet instead of wheels. Elon referred to Tesla as the world’s largest robotics company. No word on whether the Tesla Bot will be able to autonomously drive a Tesla vehicle, or whether you will need to order the FSD option in the vehicle still.

GM, not to be outdone in the EV space, announced another recall of Chevy Bolt EVs due to fires. And Ford announced that just because they have given no info on an electric version of their new Bronco, that doesn’t mean they won’t develop one.

The BEV development races continue.

[jondrew55]

Almost bought a bolt. I really liked the feel. Better than a Model 3. Price was crazy though.

Even better, when my job changed and I went from a 12 mile daily drive to a 60 mile drive I seriously went looking for a Nisan Leaf. The original uglymobile, but the year with the 100 mile battery. I just could not convince myself that 100 mile range would not degrade too close to my 60 mile daily need.

[steilkurve]

Been driving Teslas since 2015. I believe few car company come close to their user interface and driver assistance features. Their quality, performance and advancement is impressive. I use these features every day and combined with my paying attention, they make my drives safer compared to when driving our other car. With auto steer on, I can look at the nav or change music and stay perfectly centered in the lane. The same actions on our non Tesla vehicle will more often than not have my vehicle drift a tad.

The issue with Tesla’s driver assistance tech is not how good it is but rather how it’s been marketed. The name is one issue, as it suggests more than it does today, and the other issue are the missed deadlines. Autopilot was announced in 2015 and has not yet delivered the promise communicated then and for which many have paid extra.

My 2 cents. Tesla should have branded the features differently and been much more conservative on hyping/selling the future capabilities. All this would be a moot point.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

And the tri-motor is faster than your Porches. But it will take a couple of years for me to prove it with nearly a million pre-orders ahead of mine.

If it is such a desirable commodity why are taxpayers forced to subsides these glorified golf carts.
You like the Tesla go by one and enjoy it to your hearts' desire.
Pay for it and stop sermonising about climate change.
BTW thank God that the climate changes . I love the four seasons.
I have yet to hear a Tesla owner simply say I bought it because I love the car and leave it that that.

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

If it is such a desirable commodity why are taxpayers forced to subsides these glorified golf carts.
You like the Tesla go by one and enjoy it to your hearts' desire.
Pay for it and stop sermonising about climate change.
BTW thank God that the climate changes . I love the four seasons.
I have yet to hear a Tesla owner simply say I bought it because I love the car and leave it that that.

Not a tree hugger here but a couple of things. Govt often subsidizes start up industries to get things moving. Nothing new here, it's not just the solar and EV industries that get subsidies (https://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-and...re-11626785455 ). Virtually every Tesla owner I personally know love their cars for the tech and how they drive. We rarely get into climate change discussions. And as an aside, I'm assuming you're being sarcastic when you equate climate change to seasonal changes (right?).

[Texarado]

I bought it because I love the car and leave it that that.

One note though, oil & gas gets a tremendous amount of subsidies through tax treatment of oil production (e.g., IDCs, etc.). That’s not a complaint about for or against subsidies and favorable tax treatment, but objectively, there are benefits being provided all around. One is on the production side (i.e., bringing down cost of oil to the consumer, encouraging exploratory drilling), the other is on the consumer side (i.e., capped tax credit for developing a new technology/product). I think it shows the complexity (and candidly, one of the problems) with our current tax code.

I too generally agree with real care needing to be given to encouraging behavior (e.g., drilling for oil, producing EVs, buying homes with interest deduction, etc.). Obviously tinkering with any of these can have major effects.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

If it is such a desirable commodity why are taxpayers forced to subsides these glorified golf carts.
You like the Tesla go by one and enjoy it to your hearts' desire.
Pay for it and stop sermonising about climate change.
BTW thank God that the climate changes . I love the four seasons.
I have yet to hear a Tesla owner simply say I bought it because I love the car and leave it that that.

Sounds like you're mad about something? I get it, change is hard, and many don't like change.

The first EV, a Toyota Rav4 EV, I bought 10 yrs ago for my wife was heavily subsidized. We still paid a premium for the opportunity. Fortunately, it worked out to be a wonderful vehicle over the 8 years and 79k miles we owned it. Still going strong for its new owner.

It was so wonderful that my wife wouldn't consider anything but an EV for her replacement car. Despite a budget that would allow pretty much anything she'd like. The EV experience and EV merits sealed the deal and she would consider nothing but an EV. We purchased a Tesla Model 3 with little incentives.

A surprise, but the Tesla so impresses beyond the fact that it's an EV, that I often joke about stealing her car for my use. I have criteria and requirements beyond just transportation including utility, performance, towing, off-road, and automation. Frankly some of the mix of things I want I can't find from any other manufacturer or ICE car. I'm willing to pay a large premium without any incentives because the CT will be ridiculously good if specs are anything to go by. Actually, it'll be a great value doing things what no other vehicle can so it'll be money happily spent.

I'd encourage you NOT to try a modern EV. Like a fine wine or good coffee, you may never want to go back.

[skyguyscott]

C'mon Frank, that comment has nothing to do with Tesla or the government investigation into the crashes into emergency vehicles whilst on "auto pilot" but rather is a purely a trolling political comment. You are better than that.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

If it is such a desirable commodity why are taxpayers forced to subsides these glorified golf carts. I agree. No subsidy (yours and my tax dollars) should be used to pick winners and losers in any aspect of society. When the the technology is the best and becomes affordable, the paying public will adopt it (as it should be).

You like the Tesla go by one and enjoy it to your hearts' desire. I have a Cybertruck on order, but with only a $100 fully refundable deposit, I don't have skin in the game . . . yet.

Pay for it and stop sermonising about climate change. I will buy it if, when I'm notified my truck is available, it is still the most compelling vehicle. And I have never sermonized about climate change and consider many who took that stance early on did it for financial gain (follow the money). Scare sells on network news and Universities would get $0 grant dollars to do studies that found little to no climate change attributable to humans. But regardless of how we feel, electric is the future and that's not a bad thing.

BTW thank God that the climate changes . I love the four seasons. Me too. As far as I'm concerned, Fall can't get here soon enough.

I have yet to hear a Tesla owner simply say I bought it because I love the car and leave it that that. I will only say that my experience is different than yours. Tesla owners do sincerely love their cars and most wouldn't go back to anything else. And I think this is true regardless of their feelings on the environment since I don't hear their views made known in most youtube videos I've seen.

Would it surprise you to know we think alike? Except for part of your last item.


PS: - Would love to share a campfire with you, jmslade and jondrew55!

[jondrew55]

Originally Posted by skyguyscott

C'mon Frank, that comment has nothing to do with Tesla or the government investigation into the crashes into emergency vehicles whilst on "auto pilot" but rather is a purely a trolling political comment. You are better than that.

We’re all better than that. Let’s not take this forum down that road. Peace out