My Airstream Atlas Nightmare

[WA_Airstream]

We are picking up our Atlas in a couple of weeks. I shared your email about Atlas issues with our sales associate - we will certainly make sure our generator works proper;y prior to leaving. So sorry to hear about your problems.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Karol R

. . .
So far it looks like this was the right decision because I received a call this morning promising that they will pick up the RV from my house and fix all the problems. I'm not sure if they are able to do so . . .
. . .

Thanks for the detailed update . . . good moves all around IMO.

Did AS give you a timeline for the work? It might serve you well to have an agreed-upon end date goal in mind -- maybe November 15th?

Also, is the repair work going to be done at your dealer, or are they shipping the Atlas back to Jackson Center, or to some other repair facility? Unless AS brings in new mechanics to your dealer . . . . . . ???

Good luck,

[Karol R]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Thanks for the detailed update . . . good moves all around IMO.

Did AS give you a timeline for the work? It might serve you well to have an agreed-upon end date goal in mind -- maybe November 15th?

Also, is the repair work going to be done at your dealer, or are they shipping the Atlas back to Jackson Center, or to some other repair facility? Unless AS brings in new mechanics to your dealer . . . . . . ???

Good luck,

Thanks. They just picked it up today and I brought up this very concern to them. They weren't committal but it seems like they will try to fix it at the dealership and will send it to a corporate facility if they run into problems. I am insisting that they certify that all issues have been fixed and that they provide a two year extended warranty on all items and systems if I am to keep this vehicle.


Also, I just got a call from my friends who have a slightly earlier Airstream Atlas that I started my vacation with. We were supposed to travel together but because of all the problems with mine I had to return home early and they decided to stay out longer. They traveled through Bryce Canyon, Utah and experienced the exact same problem that I have repeatedly had with the battery.



They had a fully charged battery and stayed overnight off the grid. The only things that were running on the battery were the refrigerator and heating . They woke up "freezing" in the middle of the night and the temperature inside the vehicle was in he low 50's. All electronics and systems were dead, including heating. Once again, the battery lasted maybe 5-6 hours when it should have been fine for up to a day with such a small load. They have a previous model with regular batteries, not lithium. I told them about this forum and they are also contacting Airstream.


I believe Airstream does have a serious design problem not only with lithium batteries but also with previous versions. I believe all Atlas owners should verify and check the battery charging system as this issue seems widespread and can result in getting stuck without power or heat in remote places and bad weather. This is easy to test and I am shocked that Airstream did not catch this issue during design or production tests!

[K4TCJ]

Originally Posted by Karol R

Thanks. They just picked it up today and I brought up this very concern to them. They weren't committal but it seems like they will try to fix it at the dealership and will send it to a corporate facility if they run into problems. I am insisting that they certify that all issues have been fixed and that they provide a two year extended warranty on all items and systems if I am to keep this vehicle.


Also, I just got a call from my friends who have a slightly earlier Airstream Atlas that I started my vacation with. We were supposed to travel together but because of all the problems with mine I had to return home early and they decided to stay out longer. They traveled through Bryce Canyon, Utah and experienced the exact same problem that I have repeatedly had with the battery.



They had a fully charged battery and stayed overnight off the grid. The only things that were running on the battery were the refrigerator and heating . They woke up "freezing" in the middle of the night and the temperature inside the vehicle was in he low 50's. All electronics and systems were dead, including heating. Once again, the battery lasted maybe 5-6 hours when it should have been fine for up to a day with such a small load. They have a previous model with regular batteries, not lithium. I told them about this forum and they are also contacting Airstream.


I believe Airstream does have a serious design problem not only with lithium batteries but also with previous versions. I believe all Atlas owners should verify and check the battery charging system as this issue seems widespread and can result in getting stuck without power or heat in remote places and bad weather. This is easy to test and I am shocked that Airstream did not catch this issue during design or production tests!

There are many electrical changes needed to change over to a different types of batteries. Standard charging systems are not recommended for the new batteries such as Battle Born or other similar batteries. I updated my 2009 27FC to Battle Born batteries and changed the converter, added a Victron battery monitoring system, changed to a MPPT solar controller and increased the battery wire size. All of these changes were required for the system to operate properly. I have not seen any “factory” upgrade install where ALL important changes were made. Also, one battery is really not enough in cooler weather. A minimum of 2 batteries should be installed inside the heated cabin to provide proper amperage to operate heating systems. There have been many disappointed customers being misled by salesman and technicians who really don’t have the background to install proper systems.
My system has preformed wonderful and the people at Battle Born were a great help in equipment recommendations.

[Argosy man]

Originally Posted by K4TCJ

There are many electrical changes needed to change over to a different types of batteries. Standard charging systems are not recommended for the new batteries such as Battle Born or other similar batteries. I updated my 2009 27FC to Battle Born batteries and changed the converter, added a Victron battery monitoring system, changed to a MPPT solar controller and increased the battery wire size. All of these changes were required for the system to operate properly. I have not seen any “factory” upgrade install where ALL important changes were made. Also, one battery is really not enough in cooler weather. A minimum of 2 batteries should be installed inside the heated cabin to provide proper amperage to operate heating systems. There have been many disappointed customers being misled by salesman and technicians who really don’t have the background to install proper systems.
My system has preformed wonderful and the people at Battle Born were a great help in equipment recommendations.

Tagging on to the last post-

Ruth, please don’t take offense at this question- I am asking out of ignorance of the Atlas capabilities. Did a salesman tell you that in a boondocking situation with heat and fridge running, a single battery would last a whole day? My experience has been that a blower on a furnace kills a single fully charged battery in about exactly the time you said- 5 to 6 hours, and that is not including the draw of the fridge.

Shawn

[Karol R]

As I posted earlier, the good news is that the Airstream Los Angeles dealership sent a crew to pick up my Atlas for service. The bad news is that my friends who have the previous model Atlas had the same problem with their regular, non-lithium battery system and ended up losing all power while off-grid.

I spent a few days verifying and testing the charging system and discharging the batteries.
Per Novakool specifications, the refrigerator at 12 Volts uses 5.2 Amps while the unit is running. So in the worst scenario, in 24 hours you would use 124.8 Amp hours. The Atlas has 200 amp hours batteries and the refrigerator should run at least 38 hours.

Using a current meter, I measured a total amperage of 9.5 Amps drawn from the batteries when the refrigerator and heat fan are on. So in the worst case scenario you should run both of them with 200 Amp/hour lithium batteries for at least 20 hours, while in normal operation when the refrigerator and the fan are on and off you should exceed 30 hours.

If you want to perform a simple test without any special equipment to verify if your battery system is working correctly:

Connect your RV to AC power and charge the battery for most of the day (at least 10 hours)
so you are sure the battery is fully charged (as verified on Magnum display).

Turn on the main power by turning on the battery disconnect switch next to the entry door. Be sure your refrigerator is on and set the temperature to 5.5 on the dial knob inside the fridge and turn off all the light.

Make note of the time you started and leave it on overnight. In the morning everything should be up and running, indicating the system is okay (but you can still run the test and until everything shuts down to check the total battery life).

If the power is completely drained during the overnight test, then there is a problem with your battery system and you could lose all power if going off-grid.

It is best to test this with your RV parked under a cover so that the battery is not being charged by the solar system.

Airstream should provide detailed information in regards to power consumption and the number of hours the battery lasts for when different appliances and lights are on, but also provide a hardware and/or software system to prevent complete battery discharge. Not doing so is a design failure.

It's absolutely ridiculous that Airstream includes so many gadgets and gizmos, but not basic protection to keep batteries from fully discharging. What good is all this automation and technology, when the system can completely shut down leaving none of it working?

[AKmtnpilot]

It's a "Thor" product.

[lsbrodsky]

Frankly I do not agree that Airstream should engineer in or provide detailed tutorials that prevent owners from discharging batteries. At some point you have to say, where does the manufacturer's responsibility end? They don't tell you how to not empty your fresh water tank or how to not fill your black water tank. They attempt to provide a method of telling you tank status, just like they attempt to provide a method of determining battery status.
None of that subtracts from my beliefs that RV equipment is disappointing in capability, maintainability, and life and that Airstream has serious build problems.
Each owner must determine how he/she uses the trailer and what that means for electrical system operation. If in the process one finds that Airstream has made an error in installing or or more pieces of equipment, well that would not be surprising.
Larry

[K4TCJ]

Not sure as to the newer systems but my 2009 27FC has a current draw of about 3 amps when all lights, fans, refrigeration and water pump are OFF. Remember your A/C control, propane monitor, battery disconnect switch and other low drain systems are always ON. On the newer units all of your fancy touch screen control panel draw current as well. So you may up to 5 to 6 amp drain all the time. Also if your inverter is on it drains the battery even if it has no load. All said 10 amp drain is not unusual. Then add water pump, lights, fans, refrigerator, heating system, usb chargers, etc and you could see over 20 amps per hour.

[roustabout]

Sorry to hear of others with difficulties and poor service experiences. My 2020 Atlas has been traveled four times so far. We had a small collection of warranty issues. Airstream customer service has been very helpful and the dealerships in two states very good with handling the resolutions.

[COMMProf]

Gotta say it is disheartening to read these posts. I have the same trouble. I am in Carmel, IN, like one poster, and travel to Montgomery, TX (where another poster is from).

Right now, my 2020 Atlas is as Leisure RV in Willis, TX. Has been there a month. My battery problem was supposedly the 90A fuse, and they remain convinced that all is well, now. I don't think it is, but can't get back down there to test it until Dec 23. I am the 2nd owner, and have had battery trouble for the 2 months I've tried using it. With everything tied to these batteries, the fridge was in peril, and there was no hot water. This, while I traveled from MI to GA to TN to TX. I have a Feb 2 appt at the Factory. This will be the final chance I give to Airstream to work out the bugs. (By the way, when you take the unit up there, the nearest hotel is 15 miles away).

I have already reached out to a good attorney friend of mine in Cincinnati, who is happy to take on the case once I give the word. I figure that's cheaper than trying to resell the RV with bugs.

I, like other posters here, am dismayed that 2 great companies coming together to make a baby (Airstream & Mercedes) produced this problem. I expected better for the price of a condo. I purchased it to transport my 90-yr old father safely to see family one more time. There goes that dream. Thanks, Airstream.

(By the way, the original owners had no trouble for the first year, Nov 2019-Sept 2020. They even offered to help pay for these problems. But the issue is really lost time at this point. Repairs seem to be incorrect and slow for these rigs).

[nvestysly]

It's been over a month since Karol R last posted about issues with the Atlas. I hope they'll reply back to this thread and let us know what's been happening. I'd like to think Airstream (dealer and factory) have solved addressed all the issues and Karol R is happily using the RV. If that's not the case, problems persist and Karol R is sick and tired of the Atlas, I'd like to know that too.

Regarding problems with the batteries... Many of us, perhaps all of us, have learned more than we ever thought we'd know about batteries. RV's have a way of forcing us to learn about energy management to a degree not previously known (at least by me). As an engineer I was surprised how little I knew about battery systems - charging, discharging, etc. So it's no surprise that a new RV owner would be having battery problems if they don't realize the current draw of parasitic loads, lights, water pump, furnace, etc., battery capacity and the like.

I am not familiar with the Atlas but I know our Interstate is not well equipped from the factory for boondocking. We do a fair amount of overnight dry camping but charging (in one form or another) is imperative to keep the batteries in shape.

[LJDotson]

COMMProf - It looks like a definite pattern has emerged. How does your attorney feel about class action suits?

At this point our 2021 Atlas has spent more time in repair shops than at home - certainly not on the road! After reaching out to AS on the generator issue, they decided to replace the harness. Took them over a week to get that done. Then had to wait on technician. And then...they discovered 2 blown 90amp fuses, which they had to get from AS, took another 2 weeks. Then waiting on technician again. So it has been at the dealer for over 4 weeks. Waiting for the next issue to surface...

[danmiri]

I also own an Atlas that I bought from The exact same dealership and bought it right about the same time. I just thought I'd post this because it's kind of funny on the generator control portion of the menu you have to make sure that the quiet time is set correctly and the clock is set correctly. I had a situation where the generator would work sometimes and not others and realized that the clock was off by 6 hours.

[COMMProf]

Originally Posted by LJDotson

COMMProf - It looks like a definite pattern has emerged. How does your attorney feel about class action suits?

At this point our 2021 Atlas has spent more time in repair shops than at home - certainly not on the road! After reaching out to AS on the generator issue, they decided to replace the harness. Took them over a week to get that done. Then had to wait on technician. And then...they discovered 2 blown 90amp fuses, which they had to get from AS, took another 2 weeks. Then waiting on technician again. So it has been at the dealer for over 4 weeks. Waiting for the next issue to surface...

From COMMProf:
I hope I am replying correctly here! :-). I'll start talking with the Cincinnati friend some more and see what is suggested. My Atlas is there at the Willis, TX Airstream dealer. I fear more will be needed, but since I can't get to TX to pick it up until Dec 23, that puts me out until Jan 4 to even get into any kind of dealer again. I had to ship the 90A fuses myself to this dealer, as they were hard to find, and it would be another 2-3 weeks just to get fuses in. A lot of waiting that I cannot do, and did not have to do with my previous RV Class C. Because my previous RV could easily be fixed, parts and labor could be found just about anywhere.

[COMMProf]

Originally Posted by nvestysly

It's been over a month since Karol R last posted about issues with the Atlas. I hope they'll reply back to this thread and let us know what's been happening. I'd like to think Airstream (dealer and factory) have solved addressed all the issues and Karol R is happily using the RV. If that's not the case, problems persist and Karol R is sick and tired of the Atlas, I'd like to know that too.

Regarding problems with the batteries... Many of us, perhaps all of us, have learned more than we ever thought we'd know about batteries. RV's have a way of forcing us to learn about energy management to a degree not previously known (at least by me). As an engineer I was surprised how little I knew about battery systems - charging, discharging, etc. So it's no surprise that a new RV owner would be having battery problems if they don't realize the current draw of parasitic loads, lights, water pump, furnace, etc., battery capacity and the like.

I am not familiar with the Atlas but I know our Interstate is not well equipped from the factory for boondocking. We do a fair amount of overnight dry camping but charging (in one form or another) is imperative to keep the batteries in shape.

__________________________________________________ ____-
From COMMProf:
I agree as a teacher that it was lots of learning with my previous Class C. And, thankfully, I had a great engineer like yourself who helped me with any repairs and education.

Unfortunately, the problem here is that none of us can do our own repairs or get someone who can repair very easily. The way the units are designed, I'm learning, requires a lot of digging into the unit underneath, and knowing exactly what to do. A man posted on the FB Airstream that he nearly shocked himself trying to replace his 90A twice. Mine sits at a certified dealer who is convinced that just replacing the 90A solved the problem. I'm having to call and beg them to please test it out thoroughly, as other Atlas owners have had Inverter problems in addition to the 90A blown fuse. So, my "learning" is paying off, but I am helpless to do anything about it. Once I pick up the unit, I will not be able to find an Airstream service shop open Dec 23-Jan 4. And, possibly not be able to use it again. So, as is the Thread Poster Karol has written, this is far too frustrating for poor design and repair unavailability for extended periods.

[wts]

While I wouldn't hold my breath I suggest sending a letter to Thor Board of Directors. In fact, starting a web page where signatures and complaints are lodged would be good as well. If those things produce results, great - but if they don't, they are part of the fact pattern for poor warranty service. https://ir.thorindustries.com/corpor...s/default.aspx

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by COMMProf

Gotta say it is disheartening to read these posts. I have the same trouble. I am in Carmel, IN, like one poster, and travel to Montgomery, TX (where another poster is from).

Right now, my 2020 Atlas is as Leisure RV in Willis, TX. Has been there a month. My battery problem was supposedly the 90A fuse, and they remain convinced that all is well, now. I don't think it is, but can't get back down there to test it until Dec 23. I am the 2nd owner, and have had battery trouble for the 2 months I've tried using it. With everything tied to these batteries, the fridge was in peril, and there was no hot water. This, while I traveled from MI to GA to TN to TX. I have a Feb 2 appt at the Factory. This will be the final chance I give to Airstream to work out the bugs. (By the way, when you take the unit up there, the nearest hotel is 15 miles away).

I have already reached out to a good attorney friend of mine in Cincinnati, who is happy to take on the case once I give the word. I figure that's cheaper than trying to resell the RV with bugs.

I, like other posters here, am dismayed that 2 great companies coming together to make a baby (Airstream & Mercedes) produced this problem. I expected better for the price of a condo. I purchased it to transport my 90-yr old father safely to see family one more time. There goes that dream. Thanks, Airstream.

(By the way, the original owners had no trouble for the first year, Nov 2019-Sept 2020. They even offered to help pay for these problems. But the issue is really lost time at this point. Repairs seem to be incorrect and slow for these rigs).

Hi COMMProf and LJDotson,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issues you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information, email and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can learn more and share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team.

Thank you.*

[tomatwell]

Have my 2020 AS Shorty since 9/19. Been in for service over 6 months time. Many minor issues but what kept bringing me in was rapid discharge of the house batteries. After much research, discussions with the dealer and Tech Support at Jackson Center I endeavored to fix it myself.
After installing a Victron Smart Shunt I was able to finally see where this power was going! To the chassis battery! When the house batteries are connected and the Mercedes is awake, but NOT running, I was getting discharges of 15-20 amps. Turn the house master off, 0.1 amps discharge. To further confirm I disconnected my chassis battery, turned on the house, opened the driver door and the chassis powered up pulling power from the house. So now I knew why my batteries drained in 5 hours too!
DISCLAIMER: I’m not a mechanic, electrical engineer or any other expert. (Not with Airstreams at least). So my advice is advisory only and use it at your own risk. In no way am I liable for anyone using this advice.)
So what was causing this? Under the driver seat is the Victron buck boost DC/DC converter. There are two lights on it. A simple way to see if anyone’s issue are the same as mine is to look at the status of those lights. With engine running you should get a green and purple light. Engine off only green. Try turning on the master disconnect with the engine NOT running and see if you get a green and purple light. If you do you’ve got my problem. Without getting into detail about why, your house batteries are turning on the converter allowing power to pass to the chassis. Open the door and the chassis starts sucking amps from your precious house capacity. Camp off grid and at night you’ll be without juice in hours.
So how to fix it? I came up with a workaround because to fix it correctly requires a lot of work which I’m not doing. (I’ll make the dealer do it but for now I can go camp) After swapping wires, changing configs in the Victron Buck Boost Converter I finally discovered the problem and a relatively easy fix.
If , from from the above observations, this is your problem you’ll need to remove the seat. Just the 4 torx bolts. Shift the seat forward and you’ll be able to see the input and output cover for the buck boost. Remove the 2 tiny screws and you’ll see a purple wire. This provides a signal to turn on the buck boost. Again you can verify this is your problem by pulling this connector off, turn on your house batteries and see if you only have one green light. If you do my fix should work. Put inline a simple 12v low amp on/off switch on that purple wire.
When you have your house on with the engine NOT running turn it OFF. Buck boost stays off. No more chassis drain.
All other times , engine running, shore or generator power i switch it on allowing all normal charging functions to occur. This includes charging the chassis batteries.
Good luck. PM me with any questions.

[COMMProf]

Originally Posted by AirstreamInc

Hi COMMProf and LJDotson,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issues you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information, email and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can learn more and share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team.

Thank you.*

Hi Airstream!
Thanks so much for monitoring and reaching out on these forums. It is great to see you here, and thanks for your time!

According to mine and most other posts, we have been in touch and had appointments through Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support for our issues. Unfortunately, we seem to be discussing complex issues that even Airstream dealers and the factory have not been able to solve definitively. Thus, we are trying to gain insight from each other for work-arounds. My Airstream Factory appointment is Feb 2, so I hope to have gained enough information from this forum to help get my electrical issue completely solved during that time. Getting to Ohio is no easy task in the winter.

Please be sure to share these systemic problems and fixes on Atlas 2019-2020 with the Factory and disseminate to all the Dealers, so that other customers will be able to benefit quickly in 2021 and beyond.
Thank you!