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slowmover · 04-10-2012, 06:16 AM

Thanks, Ray.

C5Don · 05-01-2012, 03:31 PM

@johnhh: Brake controllers like the P3 all pretty much work the same way. When you push the brake pedal they do a short "time based braking" where they send some blue wire pulses to cause some initial decel, then the accelerometer in the brake controller monitors decel and applies blue wire pulses accordingly. In effect, you need deceleration sufficient to be sensed by the accelerometer to work, and thus the leveling and all that garbage. The DirecLink uses vehicle data and pretty much knows how much to brake before you even press the brake pedal. I can't disclose details but there are definite reasons for the improved braking.
@TouringDan: When you put on the hydraulics you will clearly improve braking, and if you bought ABS you will REALLY like the braking, and no tire flat spots! I don't know if Tuson will say this, but at certain trailer weight and greater, with ABS, I believe you will stop faster than your tow vehicle stops by itself! It has to do with weight and traction of tires. If you watch any test videos on line you will see those tires slow down and before stopping release and repeat. Again, you will be amazed at the stopping power but I can't tell you the trailer weights/number of axles where the combined trailer and vehicle actual stop quicker. Again, don't take this as 100% accurate, but I personally believe this to be true.
Regards,
Don

boondockdad · 05-05-2012, 02:43 PM

what happened to this controller?

it's no longer on Amazon, and a G**gle search brings back nothing but Valley brand wiring harnesses...

dznf0g · 05-05-2012, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

what happened to this controller?

it's no longer on Amazon, and a G**gle search brings back nothing but Valley brand wiring harnesses...

DirecLink

Are you spelling it correctly...no "t" ? See link above.

boondockdad · 05-05-2012, 03:07 PM

don't I feel sheepish... thanks dzn'

Secguru · 05-07-2012, 03:48 PM

In all these posts I'm not reading anywhere that the DirecLink achieves proportional braking. That is, increased braking with increased pedal pressure. This is also not covered on their website and a phone call to DirecLink about this resulted in a very evasive answer.

dznf0g · 05-07-2012, 04:06 PM

Yeah, we'll have to sort that out by the seat of our pants and the % apply figure on the screen. The datastream, as noted above does contain "proportional" data, based upon a master cylinder pressure sensor "The master cylinder pressure sensor is located within the BPMV. The master cylinder pressure sensor uses a 5-volt reference and generates an output signal proportionate to the hydraulic fluid pressure which is present in the front brake circuit at the master cylinder."

There are other sensors in the datastream, such as decelerometers, wheel speed sensors, etc.

Direclink is going to be coy about how they use this information because their algorythms derived from these inputs are the heart of their proprietary product.

BUT THE INFORMATION IS THERE FOR A TRULY PROPORTIONAL SYSTEM. I don't have any study time behind the wheel yet to make any conclusions on its performance. Stay tuned.

Secguru · 05-07-2012, 04:38 PM

If it isn't proportional then I don't see how it's any better than MaxBrake, except that it is easier to install. But it looks like MaxBrake would stop better.

dznf0g · 05-07-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secguru

If it isn't proportional then I don't see how it's any better than MaxBrake, except that it is easier to install. But it looks like MaxBrake would stop better.

Why do you say it would stop better?

slowmover · 05-07-2012, 05:20 PM

One can make arguments about anticipatory braking (decelorometer) being somewhat better than direct brake pressure reading. BenK on Woodalls makes this argument quite well and it is worth reading him (also an ex-racer). The P3 has it's place.

Second, for those who make a living at hauling trailers behind 1T and chassis cab trucks, the SMARTBRAKE and the MAXBRAKE have had no peer the past nearly ten years (since the demise of the JORDAN 2020) as high miles and developed skill make the direct read controller highly regarded.

The problem still remains trailer braking over trailer brake control. Discs may be a bit slow to come to speed (so to speak) but have no peer. Drums are just unacceptable. The best combos of late have been with direct read controllers and disc's (as I read things) with experienced drivers (non-experienced just need to come up to speed . . a few thousand miles of paying attention on varying surfaces).

The DIRECLINK -- looking at their trailer ABS module -- is what has been needed for some time. A TV and a TT whose anti-lock works in tandem is a big step forward.

I get the impression that there is more to it than a P3 with some extra proprietary figgerin' goin on. The potential combo of TT and TV equipped with disc brakes on all axles -- with anti-lock -- is the biggest thing in fifty years.

.

Lance M · 05-07-2012, 06:50 PM

Funny how this thread pops up AFTER I ordered a new P3 today. I have a 2002 Sequoia. Anyone know if this high speed, low drag DirecLink will work with my TV? I'm sure the P3 will be a big improvement over my U-Haul special.

dznf0g · 05-07-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top

Funny how this thread pops up AFTER I ordered a new P3 today. I have a 2002 Sequoia. Anyone know if this high speed, low drag DirecLink will work with my TV? I'm sure the P3 will be a big improvement over my U-Haul special.

I don't know. The site says 2008 and newer Toyota, but someone said it worked on their older Toyota???????

johnhh · 05-07-2012, 07:38 PM

It worked on my 2005 Tacoma. Ask your dealer service tech if the Sequoia uses a 'CAN network'.

Lance M · 05-07-2012, 07:41 PM

Thanks for the info. I'll see what they say.

Secguru · 05-08-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Why do you say it would stop better?

Because the two most important things about braking are responsiveness (DirecLink and MaxBrake both have that) and proportionality (MaxBrake has that).

If I touch the brakes, I don't want the trailer braking harder than the TV. If I have an emergency, I don't want the TV braking harder than the trailer (very, very bad!).

DirecBrake is very vague on this point. If it is proportional, why won't they say so. If not, then I would think that MaxBrake would be better, especially in an emergency.

I'm hoping that DirecBrake IS proportional, but so far I can't determine that it is.

dznf0g · 05-08-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secguru

Because the two most important things about braking are responsiveness (DirecLink and MaxBrake both have that) and proportionality (MaxBrake has that).

If I touch the brakes, I don't want the trailer braking harder than the TV. If I have an emergency, I don't want the TV braking harder than the trailer (very, very bad!).

DirecBrake is very vague on this point. If it is proportional, why won't they say so. If not, then I would think that MaxBrake would be better, especially in an emergency.

I'm hoping that DirecBrake IS proportional, but so far I can't determine that it is.

I see. Is your definition of proportional an increase of apply pressure at the pads (shoes) independent of a change in inertia (velocity)?

C5Don · 05-08-2012, 11:44 AM

I would love to tell you guys how it works, but that is proprietary information and that is why "they won't say". The definition of "proportional" being referenced above is diffierent then when the term is used by brake controllers, but I understand what you are asking. Let me say this; If you push the brake harder you will apply more brake pressure to the trailer and stop faster, unless of course any of the systems is running on glare ice. If you have the ABS system press as hard as you would like and you won't flat spot your tires and you will stop very quickly and remain straight, even if one side is in gravel and the other on the road., or if you are driving in snow, or heavy rain, or .... The ABS is very impressive. Yes the DirecLink is VERY responsive, and I would like to say more on that subject, but can't. ABS "closes the control loop" and provides maximum braking even when the driver is exceeding what you provide the fastest braking. So if you "really want to stop fast" buy ABS system.

newroswell · 05-08-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDNAX

Discs may be a bit slow to come to speed (so to speak) but have no peer. Drums are just unacceptable.

Drum brakes are on 100's of thousands of trailers, even more are in rear ends of GM vehicles, and every big rig on the road. They're are reliable, and have good stopping power. Given the multiple problems (and at least one recall) documented here on Airforums alone, from a relatively small group of people with them, I'm not ready to give up the drums just yet.

C5Don · 05-09-2012, 07:57 AM

Nothing wrong with drum brakes when maintained properly if you are not looking for the ultimate in braking. I think you will see improvements in those systems as well but it will take a while before, if ever, you can achieve braking power of hydraulic ABS systems. I think everyone has stories about misadjusted brakes, disconnected wires and so forth, where I would like to see some statistic on how many electric brake systems are 1) adjusted improperly, 2) improperly wired, 3) inoperable due to rust and so on. Those whom maintain the brakes and know they are all operable may be in the minority from what I am told. Even the ulitimate brake controller is of little use if the brakes aren't working properly. Any opinions? Do you check your brakes every year or ? How do you know you have a problem? I am guessing it is like with your vehicle; Hmmm, that didn't feel right. Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Secguru · 05-09-2012, 08:12 AM

C5Don, If I understand you correctly, you seem to be saying that an increase in brake pedal pressure in the TV WILL result in an increase in brake action in the trailer and that a decrease in brake pedal pressure in the TV WILL result in a decrease in braking in the trailer on the DirecLink system. Is that correct?

As I described proportional braking above, when I brake softly, the trailer should also brake softly and when I brake hard, the trailer should also brake hard. Is that what you are describing the DirecLink capable of doing?

Additionally, I am attracted to DirecLink because trailer braking is instantaneous with the TV braking. There is no dangerous time lag such as from common pendulum systems (Tekonsha P3, etc.).

If all this is true, then the DirecLink seems to be the best controller, also considering how easy it is to install. Can you verify that?