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Old 10-03-2007, 09:37 PM   #61
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hot off the press!

greg over at inland rv sent me these two pics today. we're still waiting for the axle to arrive, but you can see the new coupler, jack stand, and box for the disc brake system (temporarily mounted so i can drive the trailer home).

greg also removed the leaf springs and mounted the plates to accept the new axle. notice those red boxes, they hold the kodiak disc brakes. can't wait to try them out.

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Old 12-01-2007, 12:56 PM   #62
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Any updates?

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Old 12-02-2007, 05:16 PM   #63
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finally progress again...

i picked up the trailer from inland rv on thursday. i also had greg install a spare tire carrier which is what is on the newer airstreams. it fits perfect in the space. i wasn't smart enough to ordered three tires when i order my new marathons. now i have to order a spare tire and wheel.

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also, i've been contemplating tank sizes for almost a year now and i've finally decided on the sizes. i'm happy to report i'm going much bigger than originally planned. my tank sizes are as follows'

fresh 44 gallons
grey 33 gallons
black 22 gallons

i built mock up cardboard sizes today and they fit great. i've attached pictures;

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fresh hangs down almost as far as the spare tire carrier, it should be fine.

grey (left) black (right)
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waste tanks curbside view
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outlets will work great black is in the foreground, you can see the circles for the outlets
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notice the gray will be flush with the floor and the black is under the cross member. my only concern is the 27" of width of the gray with no support in between for floor. it's location is mostly under the bed so i don't think it'll be a problem. i'm going to order the tanks tomorrow and also the por 15. i need to get some steel, get it cut, then have the welder come over. i haven't completely figured out the best way to support the tanks.

one small snag on the wheel wells. you can see from the pix that the new shock sticks just above the top of the frame. i've looked at this and don't see how the shock could be lowered. i'm going to give greg a call tomorrow but i don't think there's anything he'd be able to do. i could just ditch the shocks but i do like the idea of having them. i think i need to simply make a wider wheel well as they need to be remade anyway.
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Old 12-02-2007, 07:01 PM   #64
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David

Great progress. You will appreciate the larger tank capacities. Great idea on the spare - once I get my trailer up another couple of inches I will reconsider putting the spare underneath as you have done.

One thing - I see you must have cut and paste these pictures to eliminate any signs of snow. Good work. Makes those of us who are experiencing early Christmas like weather wish we were living elsewhere.

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Old 12-10-2007, 12:06 PM   #65
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here's my new floor plan. i now will have a wrap around dinette (after seeing forum member creampuff's). i've slid the bathroom towards the front a touch so it align with the wheelwell and also i can use the opening for the old exhaust fan where the stove used to be and have an exhaust fan in the bathroom. this freed up 2' wide of space between the bed and bathroom. i could use it for a desk which i'd really like for laptop/printer, or maybe some sort of storage. any ideas?

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also here is the new framing plan. i'm going to have two 21 gallon freshwater tanks which will allow the tanks not to hang down as much. you can see that the tanks are on either side of the axle, i think it's good distribution. i need to find a good welder.

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and finally, here's the bathroom section. i've been struggling with this one for awhile and finally have a solution for the wet bath. i'm buying the shower pan/toilet combo as one piece and i need to raise it up 4" or so to allow for the shower to drain to the grey tank, above floor of course. this makes me very happy as now i can order the tanks, toilet, and shower pan.

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as an architect, i tend to think too much on paper, but i must say the design of this has been more difficult than a house in some ways, mainly you don't have any extra room and there's a lot of function to fit in such a small space. things are so tight, it's hard to know what you have until you physically have the pieces.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:28 PM   #66
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I don't see a black tank vent, or is it on another view? I am planning on raising my shower pan too, but I was only thinking around 2 inches. I also plan on running a heater duct in part of the raised space to feed warm air into the freshwater and graywater tank cavities.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:32 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerowood
I am planning on raising my shower pan too, but I was only thinking around 2 inches.
will you have enough clearance for the drain to slope to the gray tank?

the black vent ties with the gray, about 1' above the floor. i can see on the drawing a piece that wasn't colored gray that should have been to indicate the vent going down to the black tank.

i haven't decided if i'm going to heat the tanks or not yet. my inclination was originally no, but now that i have that raised shower pan, it's easy enough to do it. i'll ponder that one for a bit.
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:51 PM   #68
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I was thinking about slotting the floorboard with a doubler under the slot, and with a 1.5 inch drain I should get around 3/4 to 1 in. of slope. You know how the best laid plan works out though. I most likely will figure it out on install. I'm currently at a stall until some snow goes away. I really shouldn't have started on that 11 foot long skin replace.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:01 PM   #69
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Sweet!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfood

and finally, here's the bathroom section. i've been struggling with this one for awhile and finally have a solution for the wet bath. i'm buying the shower pan/toilet combo as one piece and i need to raise it up 4" or so to allow for the shower to drain to the grey tank, above floor of course. this makes me very happy as now i can order the tanks, toilet, and shower pan.
.
Who is the supplier for the shower pan/toilet combo?
Nice graphics.
Good plan.

R
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:39 PM   #70
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As an aside, I know Airstream used to use a very flat (it basically turns 90 degrees, instead of the loop down) p-trap for under the showers, you wouldn't need to drill into your floorplan with that. I have seen a simular animal for the sink in the basecamp, but it drains into a 1/2" flex pipe barb... I think you would need a bigger diameter for the shower water volume.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:14 PM   #71
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motorized trailer dollY?

"i'll definately need to get a motorized trailer dolly because it's so tight."

I have the exact same issue, I have to hold my breath to pass between the fence and open the door! where can I get a 'motorized trailer dolly'?

you brought up another issue regarding tire size. mine are practicallly impossible to get off/change. never occured to me to use a smaller tire. pros? cons?

thanks, enjoy the resto!

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Old 12-10-2007, 04:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotochop
...
you brought up another issue regarding tire size. mine are practicallly impossible to get off/change. never occured to me to use a smaller tire. pros? cons?
...
fotochop
I had the same problem with my Caravel until I got new axles. With the hub a little bit lower, it was easy to change the tire. How's your axle?

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Old 12-10-2007, 04:31 PM   #73
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With my trailer slightly raised I could move my tanks from inside the trailer to underneath, and follow the path that David is suggesting for his. That would free up a bit of space inside but more importantly allow me to effectively have a wet bath. Hmmmm, great pictures/plans. They really have me thinking about how to redo mine to complete the wet bath component that's been stalled for a while. I suspect in my case I'll have to build a shower pan out of stainless or aluminum - it's unlikely I'll find an existing shower pan to retrofit my set up. I do need to gain more clearance though. Not much, two to three inches max would work. I already have a fairly low scrubline and want/need to address that anyway.

David, it's not that hard to learn how to weld. Welding equipment isn't that expensive, particularly for the type of work you need done. Or am I missing something here and you need to redo a significant portion of your frame? It's a great way to justify to the non-polish-able love of your life the acquisition of new tools .

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Old 12-10-2007, 05:30 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastrob
Who is the supplier for the shower pan/toilet combo?
i searched for months to find this product. i posted it somewhere else on the board, but here it is, enjoy RV Replacement Parts Product listing


Quote:
Originally Posted by fotochop
"I have the exact same issue, I have to hold my breath to pass between the fence and open the door! where can I get a 'motorized trailer dolly'?
expensive, but.... AC Trailer Dollies,DC Trailer Dollies,Fifth Wheel Dollies,Electric ATVS


Quote:
Originally Posted by safari57
I suspect in my case I'll have to build a shower pan out of stainless or aluminum - it's unlikely I'll find an existing shower pan to retrofit my set up.
check the RV Replacement Parts Product listing they have quite a few configurations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by safari57
David, it's not that hard to learn how to weld. Welding equipment isn't that expensive, particularly for the type of work you need done. Or am I missing something here and you need to redo a significant portion of your frame? It's a great way to justify to the non-polish-able love of your life the acquisition of new tools .
i know, i've been wanting to learn to weld for a long time. i do have a friend who has done some stick welding but he is a little rusty. there's a few community classes that start in january but i'm ready now . my frame is in good shape, i do need to weld 5 new cross members though to accomodate the new tank installation plus the supports. i prefer to do it myself so i can get them exactly where i want them. is there anyone in the los angeles area that could help show me the ropes?

i'll probably end up buying welding equipment soon anyway. i think about my 17 month old son and the skills and tools i can pass on to him as he gets older (maybe that's just a good excuse for getting new toys for me ). instead of video games, he'll get all kinds of tools so he can redo his first airstream before he turns 16.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:56 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
I had the same problem with my Caravel until I got new axles. With the hub a little bit lower, it was easy to change the tire. How's your axle?

Zep
My '69 Safari axles are at "horizontal" with normal load so I guess it's a toss up on replacement...now anyway. I'm currently looking at $400-$600 furnace replacement, plus another grand or so in other little items (including a LOT of bellypan riveting. On my haul back home (1100 miles) I did catch one flat tire, a one inch break/slit on the INSIDE of the tire and I think this makes me more suspicious of the axle situation, but the PO had the trailer sitting up for a year or so (didn't use the leveling jacks....WHY do people not bother to take weight off the tires/axles???? drives me batty!)

Love the architect-quality layout drawings in this thread, wish I had me some mad CAD skills (along with some mad welding/riveting/electrical ones...) but learn as you go I spoze..

Also LOVE the front end spare tire storage thingy from Inland! I gotta get one of those too. I had to remove the previous welded homemade (but nice) spare storer off the back of my unit to fit in the back yard...made it with six inches to spare.

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Old 12-11-2007, 06:22 AM   #76
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I'm out here reading as many threads before the floor comes out and have enjoyed this on tremdously. Here are my question: 22 gallon blank tank. Is that somewhat large? I think 22 gallons of "black" would take a long time to fill. Does one need that much? Are your pipes and tanks going to run below the belly pan? If they did, wouldn't that make heating the tanks and pipes a waste of hot air?
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:28 AM   #77
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[quote=urbanfood]here's my new floor plan. i now will have a wrap around dinette (after seeing forum member creampuff's). i've slid the bathroom towards the front a touch so it align with the wheelwell and also i can use the opening for the old exhaust fan where the stove used to be and have an exhaust fan in the bathroom. this freed up 2' wide of space between the bed and bathroom. i could use it for a desk which i'd really like for laptop/printer, or maybe some sort of storage. any ideas?

Unless I am spacing out, I see no tall storage ( or much other storage) in your design, as for hanging clothes or for a pantry etc. The space between the bath and the bed would be ideal for that. Then you can run a vent pipe through it and to the roof as well.
Also, raising the shower floor 4" might limit your headroom considerably, and make for an awkward step-in arrangement. Have you considered mounting the pan on the floor ( or just slightly above it) and feeding the grey water under the floor to the side of the tank? It will fill, so long that there is a vent line connected to the very top. As a matter off act, you cen connect the shower and sink drain to the side bottom, if you need to. I did that to the grey tank on my 71 TradeWind, and never once had a problem with it. You can use a compact p-trap for the shower drain, perhaps with a bigger hose than the one shown in the link. RV PARTS OUTLET
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:13 AM   #78
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This design discussion prompts me to ask question that's been on my mind for some time--other than regulations, is there a practical reason for having a black and gray tank? Why not one? I suppose you can dump gray water on public lands, as long as you comply with the rule for x distance from trails, streams, and campsites, but that implies some balance between black and gray tanks that would rely on a prediction of the probability you could dump the gray but not the black. Help me out here--I don't think I want to go to one holding tank (except when I'm fixing the dump valves), but I don't see the practicallity of two tanks.

Which brings me to another thought--if you have a separate gray tank, are traps really necessary? How bad can the gray tank get in a few days? To me, this has a huge impact on winterizing. If you operate in cold weather with bottled water in order to keep the pipes empty, the only freeze problem is the traps. Pouring antifreeze in the drains every night is a pain (forced air heat isn't a good option if you boondock and there's no good way to judge how cold it is under the floor or behind the cabinets). The holding tanks aren't really a problem--they're big enough that they don't freeze quickly and they have expansion space (I hope I'm right about this), or a little antifreeze after you dump should solve the prolbem until the next dump.

Not to let an opportunity go by, now to vent about vents. The Sovereign has two 1-1/2" vents for the gray water. If the tank is so weirdly shaped, why not use a 1/2" flexible cross-fed from the top of one section to the top of the other? That ought to be sufficient relief. And these vents stick up in the damdest places if you want to move the closet or something. Now I feel great!

Urbanfood, I do have one question on your design. You have party seating for 7-8 people and dining seating for 5, but only sleeping for 2 (OK, more if you're friendly, I admit). What's the design objective here?

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Old 12-11-2007, 08:53 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
This design discussion prompts me to ask question that's been on my mind for some time--other than regulations, is there a practical reason for having a black and gray tank? Why not one? I suppose you can dump gray water on public lands, as long as you comply with the rule for x distance from trails, streams, and campsites, but that implies some balance between black and gray tanks that would rely on a prediction of the probability you could dump the gray but not the black. Help me out here--I don't think I want to go to one holding tank (except when I'm fixing the dump valves), but I don't see the practicallity of two tanks.
You pretty much answered your own question already, but to add to this is that you can hide away 2 or 3 separate tanks much easier than one 50 or 60gal combination tank. It offers more design and layout choices. Plus, if the waste water backs up into the shower pan, it's infinitely more pleasant if it is grey water only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Which brings me to another thought--if you have a separate gray tank, are traps really necessary? How bad can the gray tank get in a few days? To me, this has a huge impact on winterizing. If you operate in cold weather with bottled water in order to keep the pipes empty, the only freeze problem is the traps. Pouring antifreeze in the drains every night is a pain (forced air heat isn't a good option if you boondock and there's no good way to judge how cold it is under the floor or behind the cabinets). The holding tanks aren't really a problem--they're big enough that they don't freeze quickly and they have expansion space (I hope I'm right about this), or a little antifreeze after you dump should solve the prolbem until the next dump.
I believe that traps of some sort are definitely necessary. Grey water doesn't smell good, either...and gets foul surprisingly fast. Winterizing is a bummer, but that's pretty much the way it needs to be. One way around the P-traps for the enterprising owner would be to install one way valves to the pipes, but I am not sure of the mechanical quality of those devices in a low pressure environment like drains.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Not to let an opportunity go by, now to vent about vents. The Sovereign has two 1-1/2" vents for the gray water. If the tank is so weirdly shaped, why not use a 1/2" flexible cross-fed from the top of one section to the top of the other? That ought to be sufficient relief. And these vents stick up in the damdest places if you want to move the closet or something. Now I feel great!
You can move the vents around with flexible hose, and I see no particular reason to not combine vents with drain lines, so long that the drains go inot hte top of the tank. I did this on my Overlander, and haven't had problem 1 with the plumbing/venting/draining. I think 1/2in might be too small, inviting the opportunity got a clog in a most difficult place to access.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Urbanfood, I do have one question on your design. You have party seating for 7-8 people and dining seating for 5, but only sleeping for 2 (OK, more if you're friendly, I admit). What's the design objective here?

Zep
Can you say "Happy Hour?
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:13 AM   #80
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Thanks, UWE, I agree.

One major problem with your "happy hour." It's possible to be happy without 2BuckChuck, but not likely (in my case). I don't see any in the photo...

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