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2airishuman · 11-12-2006, 07:40 PM

hi oragnekid and welcome to airsteam'n...hopefully

our silver tubes have long been know for wimpy carrying capacity...

i've seen the frames for the 22s and 23 and they are not robust...

they get beefer for 25s...

yes it's possible the gvwr went down...and wisely.

agree completely with your assessment that under 600lbs makes travel hard.

not that it helps you but there are 30/31s and 34s out there with ccc of less than 900lbs!

capacities went up in late 05 on several classic models as axle ratings increased and frames were beefed up and disc brakes offered...

other models have quietly had gvwr reduced...

another issue is a/s switched to dexter axles in 06 after decades of experience using henschens....

many think the dexter axles ride stiffer, when the trailer is loaded than the henschens did/do...

it will be a few years before we all know IF the axle change was wise....

IF you really really want the 23, find a t.v. with greater payload and carry more of your stuff in the truck/suv.

it will be better for the trailer and the best compromise...

cheers
2air'

OrangeKid · 11-12-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi oragnekid and welcome to airsteam'n...hopefully

our silver tubes have long been know for wimpy carrying capacity...

i've seen the frames for the 22s and 23 and they are not robust...

they get beefer for 25s...

yes it's possible the gvwr went down...and wisely.

agree completely with your assessment that under 600lbs makes travel hard.

not that it helps you but there are 30/31s and 34s out there with ccc of less than 900lbs!

capacities went up in late 05 on several classic models as axle ratings increased and frames were beefed up and disc brakes offered...

other models have quietly had gvwr reduced...

another issue is a/s switched to dexter axles in 06 after decades of experience using henschens....

many think the dexter axles ride stiffer, when the trailer is loaded than the henschens did/do...

it will be a few years before we all know IF the axle change was wise....

IF you really really want the 23, find a t.v. with greater payload and carry more of your stuff in the truck/suv.

it will be better for the trailer and the best compromise...

cheers
2air'

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. As we proposed to configure the Airstream the CCC sould be just over 500 lbs!

We now tow a 2004 2619 TrailManor that has a CCC of around 600 lbs. We have spent over 300 nights dry camping in it. Our plan was to move to a TT that does not need to be folded and in which we can keep all our two weeks supply of food and clothing. We tend to take trips of 2-4 weeks to remote places. To do that we would need a CCC of around 1000+ lbs to allow for some margin. When we set up the TrailManor not only do we have to unfold it but we have to carry all the things from the TV to the trailer. We are trying to make set up and take down easier so we can make more one night stops so we can range further from home.

Our TV (Sequoia) is new and we do not want to replace it. We may have to look at another trailer. For example the Aerolite 18 SF (also part of Thor) has an extimated CCC of around 2000 lbs and has a GVWR of 6000 lbs assuming the published specs are accurate. I have found several other trailers with similar specs. We really like the Airstream 23' Safari and would really like to own one, but at the moment it is not looking good.

I will call Airstream tomorrow and talk to my dealer again and see if I can get more insight into the CCC issue. We have wanted an Airstream for years but there was no dealer in Vegas. Now we finally have a dealer, but the pitifully inadequate CCC is in the way.

2airishuman · 11-12-2006, 09:37 PM

hi orangekid...

your camping plans are exciting...

and you should have an airstream....

i was in a similar situation 2 years ago....

and held off on ordering because the ccc was too small...

airstream is famous for mid year changes that benefit those who wait...

so finally, when i did order (in feb) the ncc had increased by 1500-1800lbs on the model in question!

a/s is commited to these 23 models...and they are very popular.

surely they realize 2 people cannot make it with so little gear.

so if you are ordering, wait awhile and see where they go...

or you could look at the 22s which do have greater ncc...significantly.

but the floor plan is not nearly as open and useful...

cheers
2air'

OrangeKid · 11-12-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi orangekid...

your camping plans are exciting...

and you should have an airstream....

i was in a similar situation 2 years ago....

and held off on ordering because the ccc was too small...

airstream is famous for mid year changes that benefit those who wait...

so finally, when i did order (in feb) the ncc had increased by 1500-1800lbs on the model in question!

a/s is commited to these 23 models...and they are very popular.

surely they realize 2 people cannot make it with so little gear.

so if you are ordering, wait awhile and see where they go...

or you could look at the 22s which do have greater ncc...significantly.

but the floor plan is not nearly as open and useful...

cheers
2air'

We may wait a while depending what Airstream tells us tomorrow. We did look at the 22' but it has a wet bath - not good! Like we said we really want an Airstream. A CCC of ~1000 lbs would do it.

SilverGate · 11-13-2006, 02:14 AM

Hi OrangeKid,

You raised a good point regarding 23’ Safari SE CCC…
And got a good discussion going on this forum.
I have the 2007 AS brochure and you are right…
It lists the 23’ Safari SE GVWR as 6,000 lbs….
But it also lists the LPG as 20 lbs….
Which does not seem right.
As you know I also have my eye on this model…
And will be very interested in Airstream’s response to your concern!

Bill

Chuck · 11-13-2006, 08:05 AM

I'll just second what John said about gvwr: its what the manufacturer SAYS it is. there may be more than 1 limiting factor.

fwiw: my old 23' trailer has nearly 2000lb ccc. Maybe you should go "vintage"?

there's something to be said for flimsy cabinetry. It don't weigh much.

Anyway, some interesting numbers: 2 x 2600lb axles; 600lb tongue weight; 5800lb gvw. 3800lb empty weight.

OrangeKid · 11-13-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverGate

Hi OrangeKid,

You raised a good point regarding 23’ Safari SE CCC…
And got a good discussion going on this forum.
I have the 2007 AS brochure and you are right…
It lists the 23’ Safari SE GVWR as 6,000 lbs….
But it also lists the LPG as 20 lbs….
Which does not seem right.
As you know I also have my eye on this model…
And will be very interested in Airstream’s response to your concern!

Bill

I have checked 3 2007 Safari SE LS models and they all list the GVWR as 5600 LBS. The 2007 brochure lists it as 6000 lbs as you noted. Online the Airstream site lists it as 5600 lbs. That 400 lb difference makes all the difference in the world as to making this model suitable for us for out type of camping. With GVWR of 5600 lbs we would only be able to load 509 lbs in the AS as we plan to conifigure it. We think that is totally inadequate. An addtional 400lbs GVWR would bring the CCC to 909 lbs which we could iive with.

OrangeKid · 11-13-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

I'll just second what John said about gvwr: its what the manufacturer SAYS it is. there may be more than 1 limiting factor.

fwiw: my old 23' trailer has nearly 2000lb ccc. Maybe you should go "vintage"?

there's something to be said for flimsy cabinetry. It don't weigh much.

Anyway, some interesting numbers: 2 x 2600lb axles; 600lb tongue weight; 5800lb gvw. 3800lb empty weight.

Chuck:

I would be satisfied to have half (1000 lbs CCC) of your CCC. But a little of 500 is just not enough. We are almost guaranteed to overload the Safari.

TIMEMACHINE · 11-13-2006, 12:03 PM

So I am really curious, has anyone received an answer about the GCVW of the 2007 Safari 23 from the Airstream factory? Is it 5600 lbs or 6000lbs?

John

OrangeKid · 11-13-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE

So I am really curious, has anyone received an answer about the GCVW of the 2007 Safari 23 from the Airstream factory? Is it 5600 lbs or 6000lbs?

John

I just talked to service/technical support at Airstream. The bottom line is that the GVWR for the 23' Safari is the number on the sticker in the Safari and not the number in a brochure. So for the 2007 23' Safari SE LS I saw it is 5600 lbs.

I then asked if I could upgrade the axles to raise the GVWR to 6000 lbs or more and they put in touch with sales, who are supposed to return my call.

My dealer said that it was not possible to upgrade the axles to raise the GVWR. He also said that the sticker was wrong and the GVWR is 6000 lbs, in direct contradiction to the factory rep. I believe the factory answer is more accurate.

When I find out if I can upgrade a Safari from the sales department I will post the answer here.

Steve

Antique Pedaler · 11-13-2006, 01:27 PM

Okay folks....

I had to get some things from the trailer so I looked at the GVWR rating.
The sticker in the closet does, indeed says 5600 pounds. It is just the stardard printed label However, the etched certification plate on the outside of the trailer, the plate that lists the serial number, build date, etc. lists the GVWR at 6000 pounds. For what it's worth, this trailer has Dexter axles.

OrangeKid · 11-13-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antique Pedaler

Okay folks....

I had to get some things from the trailer so I looked at the GVWR rating.
The sticker in the closet does, indeed says 5600 pounds. It is just the stardard printed label However, the etched certification plate on the outside of the trailer, the plate that lists the serial number, build date, etc. lists the GVWR at 6000 pounds. For what it's worth, this trailer has Dexter axles.

The 2007 Safari SE LS I looked at the dealer also had a 6000 lb rating for the axles on the outside. Did the plate actually state the GVWR is 6000 lbs or did it state the axle capacity is 6000 LBS. As several other replies have noted another component besides the axles, such as the frame, may limit the GVWR.

I wonder of the decrease of the GVWR from 6000 to 5600 lbs is relasted to the switch from Henschen to Dexter axles in 2006?

Antique Pedaler · 11-13-2006, 01:45 PM

Hi Orange Kid,

Yes, the plate says "GVWR". It does not list an axle capacity.

OrangeKid · 11-13-2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antique Pedaler

Hi Orange Kid,

Yes, the plate says "GVWR". It does not list an axle capacity.

Hmmmmm ..... an interesting contradiction. Now we have to figure out which is the correct GVWR the sticker on the inside or the plate on the outside. Unfortunately I did not pay much attention to the plate on the outside of the 23" Safari SE LS I saw at the dealer. I was in shock after seeing the GVWR on the inside sticker.

CanoeStream · 11-13-2006, 05:46 PM

In a recent thread, 2006 Bambi Quick Silver Axle Weights, member Coloradobus seemed to be chasing similar questions. For that model he determined that there was minimal payload capacity with the single axle 16-footer. But for the subtraction of weight transferred to the tongue, the 16-footer would exceed GAWR from the get-go.

Not much help in this answer but this is another axle rating that seems all over the map. My experience is that Airstream's website is inconsistently maintained and has information at odds with other known info or else is ridiculously out of date. There's no consistency to updates -- and I'd expect they'd really give it the once over in spring before the new year production came out, but that just isn't so. I'd certainly have to trust the posted weights as shown in OrangeKid's post #5 in this thread. My 25' Safari's axle ratings are on the riveted metal VIN# plate (roadside front down around the rubrail on my 2006) -- but mine is from the odd 10 months or so in which Airstream used Dexter axles -- and they are high capacity.

2airishuman · 11-13-2006, 06:59 PM

hi orangekid...

keep at 'em!

as canoestream as noted this isn't the first time capacites, options, floorplans, PRICES or any other feature of new a/s has been hard to nail down...

i went through this exact and entire process and finally they upped the capacity weeks before my order...

these things are all 'liquid' and the website is only for entertainment, not facts...

flyers are a little better 'cuze their printed and someone had to proof read the specs..

what you really need is an a/s engineer or BOB WHEELER the president to answer your question...

i suspect you cannot up rate the axle alone and increase capacity...

until a/s does it offically

and really you may still have issues related to the tow vehicle...

to paraphase you'd like the actual weight of the trailer to not increase, just the carry capacity?

for your camping plans a great older argosy is a lighter easily upgraded trailer or an early 2000 model when they did weight less and could carry more...

and are you planning to add solar?

cheers
2air'

OrangeKid · 11-13-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2airishuman

hi orangekid...

keep at 'em!

as canoestream as noted this isn't the first time capacites, options, floorplans, PRICES or any other feature of new a/s has been hard to nail down...

i went through this exact and entire process and finally they upped the capacity weeks before my order...

these things are all 'liquid' and the website is only for entertainment, not facts...

flyers are a little better 'cuze their printed and someone had to proof read the specs..

what you really need is an a/s engineer or BOB WHEELER the president to answer your question...

i suspect you cannot up rate the axle alone and increase capacity...

until a/s does it offically

and really you may still have issues related to the tow vehicle...

to paraphase you'd like the actual weight of the trailer to not increase, just the carry capacity?

for your camping plans a great older argosy is a lighter easily upgraded trailer or an early 2000 model when they did weight less and could carry more...

and are you planning to add solar?

cheers
2air'

We have a 100 watt panel on our TrailManor and have never used the 3.5 KW Onan generator in over 300 nights of camping (it was a $3,400 option!). Here in the southwest solar has always recharged our two 6 volt deep cycle batteries fully every day.

The proposed optons list for the 23' Safara SE LS includes two 53 watt panels. We would probably also purchase a 1000 watt Honda generator for trips to places where it is very overcast or rainy.

I am still waiting for A/S to call me back as to whether the GVWR can be increased for the 23' Safari by upgrading the axles/wheels/tires.

SilverGate · 11-13-2006, 07:55 PM

Hi OrangeKid, 2air’ and others…

Well I took your advice 2air’ and emailed my questions directly to customersupport…
I also asked them about the current GVWR for the 2007 23’ Safari SE.
Airstream Factory sent back (in-part) this reply:

"The current GVWR has been raised to 6000 lbs. We had a few weight stickers that need to be reissued to bring them up to date.
The LPG tanks are 23lbs. The glassmatt batteries are far superior to the lead acid battery and is on out side A fame. I will follow up with answers to the other question tomorrow. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Joyce Motsinger
Sales Clerk
Airstream Inc.
937-596-6111 Ext. 7463on the out side "

So, OrangeKid… that should make you feel a little better

Trust… but verify…. And re-verify !

Bill

2airishuman · 11-13-2006, 08:18 PM

way 2 go bill!

i'd forgotten her name, but joyce is great...

she answered questions for me 2 years ago and even emailed me spec sheets and other items as i requested them....

she got me to my trailer when it was in production also...

if you are polite with her she will be very helpful...

if you ever make it 2 the factory look her up and say "THANKS"...

never forget j/c is a small small town.

these folks all know each other and get to know us...

they don't excite easily and don't fall for the big city jive...

cheers
2air'

OrangeKid · 11-13-2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverGate

Hi OrangeKid, 2air’ and others…

Well I took your advice 2air’ and emailed my questions directly to customersupport…
I also asked them about the current GVWR for the 2007 23’ Safari SE.
Airstream Factory sent back (in-part) this reply:

"The current GVWR has been raised to 6000 lbs. We had a few weight stickers that need to be reissued to bring them up to date.
The LPG tanks are 23lbs. The glassmatt batteries are far superior to the lead acid battery and is on out side A fame. I will follow up with answers to the other question tomorrow. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Joyce Motsinger
Sales Clerk
Airstream Inc.
937-596-6111 Ext. 7463on the out side "

So, OrangeKid… that should make you feel a little better

Trust… but verify…. And re-verify !

Bill

SilverGate:

Whopee! You have made our day. That will give us a CCC of around 900 lbs and we can live with that. We will probably order ours in the next week or so. My wife and i are very excited. We were getting ready to go look at some other trailers, but we now have cancelled those plans.

As we are interested in very similar 23' Safaris would you mind sharing your email to and from Airstream with me? And the person's email address in case I want to ask additional questions. Please PM me. Thanks.

Please check my other thread on scissor jacks, as I do not want to pollute this one. Thanks.

Steve