Adding Lithium Batteries to existing factory solar

[LongCut]

I'm hoping to get a little guidance. Just a bit of background. I have a 2019 Flying Cloud 26RBT. I had the dealer install an extra 2 90 watt panels. I currently have 4 panels at 340 total watts. The AGM batteries seemed to be the limiting factor in our ability to boondock so I purchased a couple of 100aHr Lithium batteries from Battle Born and just completed the move from the front battery box to the front storage compartment.

Battleborn recommended upgrading the converter so I have the 4655 kit and I'm planning to install it in the next couple of days. Looks pretty straight forward. The question though, I'm thinking I need to replace the solar charger too? It's probably similarly flawed in working with the lithium batteries? I've read others using the Victron 30/100 or 50/100 charger. I guess I have 3 questions?

1) I don't think I need the 50/100 as I only have 340 watts of solar. Is this correct? When do I know which I need?
2) Where the heck is the existing solar charger located? And, what kind of solar charger is currently installed? I have a grey box under the front bench labeled DC - could it be located inside that grey box? The grey box and the existing inverter are the only things located under there - and a mess of unorganized wire/cable.
3) If I do get the Victron 30/100 what will the Victron 712 add a lot of value?

Thanks in advance. Lee

[waninae39]

Battleborn with the Victron MPPT solar controller and the 3kw inverter converter thus easily support lion better. and the 712 also with the bluetooth option

we used the 30/100 mppt with 350W of solar on our 22fb

[AirMiles]

Originally Posted by LongCut

I'm hoping to get a little guidance. Just a bit of background. I have a 2019 Flying Cloud 26RBT. I had the dealer install an extra 2 90 watt panels. I currently have 4 panels at 340 total watts. The AGM batteries seemed to be the limiting factor in our ability to boondock so I purchased a couple of 100aHr Lithium batteries from Battle Born and just completed the move from the front battery box to the front storage compartment.

Battleborn recommended upgrading the converter so I have the 4655 kit and I'm planning to install it in the next couple of days. Looks pretty straight forward. The question though, I'm thinking I need to replace the solar charger too? It's probably similarly flawed in working with the lithium batteries? I've read others using the Victron 30/100 or 50/100 charger. I guess I have 3 questions?

1) I don't think I need the 50/100 as I only have 340 watts of solar. Is this correct? When do I know which I need?
2) Where the heck is the existing solar charger located? And, what kind of solar charger is currently installed? I have a grey box under the front bench labeled DC - could it be located inside that grey box? The grey box and the existing inverter are the only things located under there - and a mess of unorganized wire/cable.
3) If I do get the Victron 30/100 what will the Victron 712 add a lot of value?

Thanks in advance. Lee

1) A Victron 100/30 is perfectly sized for your 340W.

2) I'm not familiar with your model, but the stock controller is tiny. It has one yellow input wire and one black and one red output wire. I will post a link to a picture of it. Its probably near that grey box if not inside it. Here is a picture of the stock solar controller: http://www.airforums.com/forums/atta...3&d=1514062108 You will also need to connect the green wire from the solar prewire to the Victron 100/30 controller. The green wire can also be seen in the picture - black taped together with the yellow wire and looping in the upper-right corner of the picture. You should also increase the size of the red and black output wires from the Victron controller to the busbars to 6 gauge.

3) I'm in the minority here, and don't have a BMV-712. But, I have wet cell batteries where voltage is a good indicator of state of charge and charging is not temperature dependent. For wet cells, I would say a BMV-712 is unnecessary. But with Lithiums, I would say a BMV-712 is recommended.

[Garfish]

Victron solar charger has a lithium version so I would make sure you order that one

[LongCut]

Thanks for the message Airmiles - that's a big help. I have read your long thread about your system with factory wiring and that's what inspired me to add a couple of extra panels. Now, I just need to get the converter installed...

[Prettygood]

I’m still wondering if the converter is needed.

As I have gathered, the converter with a Lithium profile is needed if you want to fully charge the lithium batteries on shore power or generator. With a standard charger on an AGM profile, it will charge the lithium batteries to a high percent (80%+?), but won’t take them to 100%.

With a good solar controller, like the Victron MPPT, the solar array will provide the higher voltage to take lithium batteries up to 100%.

Could we not bypass the converter upgrade and rely on solar for the last 20% of charge? Saves a step and some complication while still enabling fully charged lithium’s.

Thoughts??

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by Prettygood

I’m still wondering if the converter is needed.

As I have gathered, the converter with a Lithium profile is needed if you want to fully charge the lithium batteries on shore power or generator. With a standard charger on an AGM profile, it will charge the lithium batteries to a high percent (80%+?), but won’t take them to 100%.

With a good solar controller, like the Victron MPPT, the solar array will provide the higher voltage to take lithium batteries up to 100%.

Could we not bypass the converter upgrade and rely on solar for the last 20% of charge? Saves a step and some complication while still enabling fully charged lithium’s.

Thoughts??

I've disconnected mine several years ago and only charge on solar. All of my 12v needs are supplied this way year round. Even in our northern winter climate it works fine as long as you clear the snow off the panels now and then. Make sure you have a charge controller capable of charging lithium (don't use the factory one). Any Victron or higher end MorningStar should do that. Set the profile for lithium batteries and you'll be set to go. Of course in Carlsbad you might want to clean the dust of the panels instead of the snow. Your charge controller is one of the best investments you will make along with a battery monitor.

[Gulliver72]

What I did, and what I would recommend.
2-4 Battleborn batteries.
VictronConnect 2 or 3k watt inverter/charger
Any quality MPPT 30-50 amp solar controller
Victron 702 “monitor” with Bluetooth
Victron 12-18A dc-dc charger (Orion) for charging from TV while driving.
I also just added a Renogy 40 watt dc-dc charger tied to external plug to charge from truck alternator while parked (truck idling) when don’t want to use generator due to noise.
Varied assortment of cabling, switches, bus bars, fuse blocks, etc.
Charger is built into inverter.

It is a considerable amount of work, and not for the faint of heart. The result is nothing short of transformational in how you can use your AS.
Doing it yourself you will totally understand the intricacies and functionality of your system.
Lots of help on the forums and battleborn.

[wcrockett]

Agree. The solar will top it off if the sun is shining so upgrading the converter is optional. I choose to upgrade but we boondock most of the time so it does not get much use when we are camping.

I have a 27’ FB. It had a factory 140 watt panel. I added another 2 100 watt panels and replaced the controller with a 30 watt MPPT. After a couple of years I decided to add 3 more 100 watt panels and had to add another 30 watt MPPT because I calculated that with 645 watts of Solar I would occasionally generate the 30 watts. So my one new MPPT was not adequate. If I had bought a 40 watt MPPT during my first upgrade I would not have needed the second one.

I now have two separate solar banks. One on each side of the trailer. Each one goes to a separate MPPT and then they both can independently charge either 3 Battleborn 100 AH lithiums that I installed with the 3 panels or one of my original 105 AH AGM’s.

[Prettygood]

Thanks for confirming. I was ready to pull the trigger earlier this year on a full panel/lithium/inverter upgrade, but chose not too. My 2019 22’ Sport is great, but I now know I will upgrade the trailer in a few years to one with a better set of amenities (e.g. Caravel or 25’ model).

For now I do want to add some solar and move my AGM inside the compartment under the bed. I can install the panels and charge controller myself and skip much of the cost associated with the full upgrade.