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nmbosa · 04-06-2009, 08:19 PM

After two weeks of negotiating, I was about to buy an interesting 59' Overlander International today. We had agreed on a price and I was making travel plans to go pick up the trailer (trailer is in CA and I'm in WA).

Unfortunately, while asking the current "owner" totally unrelated questions about the systems, I learned that the title was still in the name of the original, deceased, owner.

Current owner bought the trailer from a friend who allegedly bought it from the estate of the deceased owner, but nobody ever bothered to transfer title or update the registration. So, the trail of documents includes a California pink slip signed over by somebody who claims to be the decedent of the original owner, a bill of sale to the 2nd owner and another bill of sale to the current "owner." I called three DOL offices in my state who all said that without a "notarized letter of testimentary," or a court order authorizing whoever signed the title over to actually sign the title, they won't register it for me.
Back to the search.

flyfshr · 04-06-2009, 08:25 PM

What a pain in the patoot. Can't you file for a lost title? In AZ, years ago, I filed for a lost title and was required to send a certified letter to the last known owner of the motorcycle (in this case) and if it was returned, I could proceed with a new title. Took a bit of time and minimal expense but it was worth it. Surely something can be done in the state of CA by the current owner. He'd have much better luck than you getting this done in CA. You just can't pass up on a '59, they're the best year.

Brad
FF

Brad
FF

navyeod · 04-06-2009, 08:38 PM

Too bad, in Alabama all that is required is a bill of sale for a trailer/boat/car/motorcycle that is older than 1975.

nmbosa · 04-06-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Surely something can be done in the state of CA by the current owner. He'd have much better luck than you getting this done in CA. You just can't pass up on a '59, they're the best year.

Brad, I sure hope the current owner can do something about it. I really like the trailer and the year. Unfortunately, when I explained what I needed (either a title in his name or a set of legal docs) all he had to say was "sorry nothing I can do about that." Current owner claims his friend bought it 8 to 9 years ago from the estate of the original owner and just let it sit until he bought it from the friend. Apparently neither 2nd owner or current owner wanted to pay the California fees necessary to transfer title. I have no idea how much that would cost, but I guess it is too much for their taste. In the meantime, a series of strange responses (this being the last of several) to my efforts to buy this trailer has really soured the entire deal. We'll have to see if he calls back with some "new" information.

nmbosa · 04-06-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navyeod

Too bad, in Alabama all that is required is a bill of sale for a trailer/boat/car/motorcycle that is older than 1975.

Navyeod, I've been following your posts for the last several weeks. What a great recovery story. And the speed of your work this weekend was impressive to say the least. Good luck with your restoration. I have a friend here in the Northwest who is doing a shell-off on a 59 Flying Cloud and he works at about your pace. I wish I had that kind of energy and focus.

navyeod · 04-06-2009, 09:17 PM

If the price is right and you like that trailer dont give up on it. You can get a death certificate on the owner and push it through. Get notarized affadavits etc. Lots of trouble but you will forget about the trouble if you get it and like it. Thanks for the kind words, but its pure madness this restoration stuff.

flyfshr · 04-06-2009, 09:27 PM

Do you have any pictures you can post of this '59? Like to see it.

It has to be worth pursuing. After all, it is a '59.

Brad
FF

nmbosa · 04-06-2009, 10:12 PM

Here are a couple pics from the seller.

**Stefrobrts** · 04-06-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmbosa

In the meantime, a series of strange responses (this being the last of several) to my efforts to buy this trailer has really soured the entire deal. We'll have to see if he calls back with some "new" information.

My policy has always been that if things start getting weird so you feel a little odd about the deal - there's a reason. Someone who wants to sell a trailer with an unworkable paper trail and refuses to be any help in getting it worked out would be a deal breaker for me. I would just let that one go and keep looking.

I had a similar problem with a boat I purchased (titled in OR, I was in WA). The OR marine board had me send a form to the last known owner and if the form was returned unopened, they accepted that as 'signing off' and put the boat in my name. I actually did this for two boats - one letter returned unopened, and the other one the old owner received it and signed off on it. I talked to him on the phone and he said he had sold that boat years ago, barely remembered it, couldn't believe it was still in his name! So it worked out both times. Too bad that doesn't work for trailers.

samb · 04-06-2009, 11:22 PM

Just remember that we don't want it to be too easy to get title to a trailer.
That could be the trailer that was stolen from you and now someone else has legal title to it!
I insist on a clear title or I walk. If I really want it, I will offer to pay for the title transfer if they take care of it.
Sam

navyeod · 04-07-2009, 05:03 AM

Remember NM you are buying a trailer not the previous owner

. that is one fine looking trailer. Has the dual axle option, Interior looks identical to mine except in a hundred times better condition. I would love to see some more pics if you have them. Especially the refrigerator area as mine had been modified. I tried to walk away from Eugene many times and now am so glad I didnt. I believe the AS will be a fixture in our family for a long time. Really gotten used to him being in the driveway. Keep me posted and anything I can do to help its yours for the asking.

SilverAvion · 04-07-2009, 06:38 AM

sounds a little fishy, although it could be as simple as well. if he never transferred title, the state may require him to pay back payments for all the years since he has owned the trailer in order to title it in his name.

but more likely its a shady thing....

Melody Ranch · 04-07-2009, 07:58 AM

The title "problems" on old Airstreams are mostly self induced. Lots of missing titles on these old ones and I have dealt with several. There are many ways of getting a legal and clear title...sometimes it takes time and always involves some moronic bureaucrat. You have the time and work around the problem person. Buy it now and get to work.

nmbosa · 04-07-2009, 01:11 PM

Well, there may be some life left in this deal after all. Current owner and his buddy (the PO) called and seem motivated to get it worked out. We will see. Thanks for the responses.

silverleeper · 04-07-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nmbosa

Well, there may be some life left in this deal after all. Current owner and his buddy (the PO) called and seem motivated to get it worked out. We will see. Thanks for the responses.

Great news!

I hope it turns out for you. It will be nice to see another vintage trailer in the Pacific NW.

navyeod · 04-07-2009, 01:39 PM

Pulling for you. Hope it works out.

r&kweber · 04-07-2009, 02:20 PM

Good news is that everyone is lining up (even if reluctantly) to maybe make this deal happen. We're crossing our fingers. That International looks sweet!

wilsontami · 04-07-2009, 03:45 PM

So does this mean you are going to join us for the trip in July at our mini AS rally. Maybe we should start our own WBCCI unit.
Wilson

nmbosa · 04-07-2009, 04:06 PM

Katie, here is what I learned today and passed on to Ryan as well as the current owner(s). Getting clear title in California should be doable as long as they are willing to pay the fees or can find some exemption or creative way around the fees. Unfortunately, it could prove expensive for them. The California title rules on vehicles purchased from an estate require the collection of "two" transfer fees (it appears to be the same in all West Coast states). They want a transfer fee to cover the transfer from the deceased to the heir, and from the heir to the new buyer. They may also require back registration fees, but hopefully that would not go back all the way to the last registration. Plus, all three states want proof that whoever signed the title was the rightful heir. Too bad the deceased did not sign before moving on. If he had, it would be easy to register here in WA, but with someone else's name signed on the title, it's a complete mess unless cleared up in the original state or a state with very loose registration laws (which someone in this thread noted we should not encourage). These rules are typically written to deal with vehicles that have so much value it is worth the effort (nobody would walk away from a 2005 Mercedes E55 that grandpa left in the garage just because of the transfer fees). When you start dealing with old trailers and other vehicles typically found in fields with 20 years of expired registration, these rules are just poor public policy and tend to discourage transfers (and commerce in general) by making the transaction costs prohibitively expensive. Hopefully the current owners can put their heads together and come up with a solution that works. I just want to end up with a trailer in my name.