Vintage Owners - WARNING!!!

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

Blue Sky - Akron Ohio.

It's Actual Cash Value - and if I get it appraised it' can be converted to Agreed Value, but It has to be re-appraised every three years. God only knows what that will cost, and they'd "prefer" that I use someone in Indiana to do the appraisal.

They will also accept comparable sales - easy to find right?

So, everyone who knows of a nicely refurbed Avion 10 meter that sold, point me to the information, please. I suppose I could list it on Craigslist and get offers but that seems to be rather dishonest and a bit of a PITA.

I just placed a biggish order on Amazon for the essential supplies for this baby. Planning to pick it up Thursday. Now when is Falluminum scheduled?

Paula

Hi Paula,

I don't know what year your Avion is, but if it's vintage <79 or so, then go to the Vintage Camper Trailer magazine & see if there are any appraisers advertising on there, or email the publisher to see if he knows. I have the recco of a guy in SoCal, but that's too far from you in VA.

With the way vintage trailering has caught on in the past few years, the values are actually going up - not down - on them, so an appraisal every 3-5 years protects you for actual replacement value anyway.

Others, please note that this is NOT the case for late model trailers (perhaps as late as the 1980's), because they will continue to depreciate annually from new for at least 20 years or more.

Also, as for your concerns over the AS only parks/etc. - just print out & stick an AIRSTREAM logo over the Avion ones & I doubt any of them will know the difference.

I mean really - REALLY - sometime these AS folks just get way too full of themselves!

Besides, everyone knows that Avions are "Better than an Airstream" - as Avion ads read back in the 60's!

Good Luck Paula!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by barefootmom

kaylorsan, we contacted Josh, and received a quote which states it's an Agreed Value. It seems very reasonable, and I'm remaining hopeful. I'm going to call and verify tomorrow. We currently have AAA, and the policy is now "whichever is lower." I went online to Good Sam Club and (supposedly) received and Agreed Value quote, but when they called me, they said it only applied to rigs five years old or newer. Due your due diligence, folks! I'm fretting, thinking if anything happens to our 98 Excella, our Airstreaming days are over.

You're being in Glendora/SoCal too & with ACSC/AAA .... now I'm worried about what our policy says when I get the renewal docs in a few weeks!

I'm hoping that ours being a 1960 vintage Avion, & based on the opinion of value by the PPI inspector when purchased in 2012, that they aren't playing the same game with us.

I'd been hoping that our CA Insurance Commissioner was preventing those sorts of games!

Good Luck with your 98 AS!
Tom
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[barefootmom]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Hi Paula,

I don't know what year your Avion is, but if it's vintage <79 or so, then go to the Vintage Camper Trailer magazine & see if there are any appraisers advertising on there, or email the publisher to see if he knows. I have the recco of a guy in SoCal, but that's too far from you in VA.

With the way vintage trailering has caught on in the past few years, the values are actually going up - not down - on them, so an appraisal every 3-5 years protects you for actual replacement value anyway.

Others, please note that this is NOT the case for late model trailers (perhaps as late as the 1980's), because they will continue to depreciate annually from new for at least 20 years or more.

Also, as for your concerns over the AS only parks/etc. - just print out & stick an AIRSTREAM logo over the Avion ones & I doubt any of them will know the difference.

I mean really - REALLY - sometime these AS folks just get way too full of themselves!

Besides, everyone knows that Avions are "Better than an Airstream" - as Avion ads read back in the 60's!

Good Luck Paula!
Tom
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We called two appraisers and appraisals run between $200-300. Now I'm concerned that our 98 falls in between old and new and we're back to square one!

[switz]

With Airstream raising the Classic list price from around $97,00 in 2014 to over $125,000 in 2015 and now crowding $140,000+ in 2016, I would wager the used values of the Classics may have a slower depreciation rate. The other models have experienced at least a 10% increase in price over the last three model years (2014 to 2016).

The few improvements to the trailer ,if any, depending on the model, and the Quality Control in the trailers did not improve and in some models is lower than earlier. But I bet there were bigger bonuses for the top level executives.

Even the much touted limited edition Pendletons are having QC issues. If it were me, I would sure as heck require that the factory conduct a 100% QC checkout on each one of these that was followed up with an actual PDI at the dealership so there were NO issues for the customer.

In reality, the entire product line at these totally inflated list prices should come with zero defects.

Our 2013 25FB International Serenity had zero defects at the production rate of 26 per week in June of 2012. As the speed up in production has increased, the QC has tanked in a totally random fashion with all models getting some good ones and lots of issues on others.

As a couple of simple QC examples, how did our 2015 23D International Serenity (made at the end of September 2014 with production over 41 units per week) get out the door after final inspection without the word "Airstream" on the rear of the trailer? Did Colonial actually do a PDI with a person with their eye open?

They sure did not notice the wad of protective wall plastic beside the bed (should have been removed at the factory but was overlooked when the mattress was placed on the frame) when Colonial put the bed spread on the mattress.

The toilet was NOT installed per the drawings as it was not angled so the door could close when sitting on the toilet and the shower was improperly installed with large gaps around the opening.

The front Vista window blind with ½" pleats was broken and should have been fixed at Colonial as they had nearly nine months to make the repair from the factory delivery date unit I took delivery of the unit. The replacement blind came with 1" pleats, so I had to replace both units.

The rhetorical question still applies at Airstream in their rush to get units out the door - "Why is there always time to do it over but never time do it correctly the first time?"

[Pillow]

Hey Paula,

Did you end up going and staying with Blue Sky - Akron Ohio?

Thanks for the very informative thread!

[floridalarry]

Contact Bryan Rose at Good Sam Insurance Agency (216) 802-3866, bryan.rose@ngic.com. Went with Allied and cost me one-half of what Progressive was going to change me on a $31,000 agreed price policy for my '66. I needed to send them an < 2 year-old appraisal.

[Alluminati]

In June we paid a little north of ten grand for a 34’ Avion in exceptional condition. This trailer was about $40,000 when new in 1989. NADA says our trailer is now worth $2,550. But it does allow added features such as a refrigerator, water heater, hitch, and other “upgrades”, lol. By including waste tanks, microwave, and furnace, etc. the value rose to a whopping $4,040!

I heard elsewhere that Progressive was THE insurance company for classic RVs. After a quick unsuccessful survey of insurance companies online, I gave up and contacted the insurance broker that handles all our other policies. We tried Progressive, but every time he entered a shred of info on us, or inquired the price, the premium jumped all over the board, from the low $400s to high $500s. Every quote lasted a few hours, then would jump. Getting a firm number was like thumbtacking a live rabbit to the wall. The numbers wouldn’t hold still. At one point the premium fell below $400, so he nailed it down quick. But within a week of signing the dotted line, we got notice from Progressive saying we underpaid, and our premium was now $485.

Disgusted and embarrassed, our broker called to say he thought he found an alternate small company that may insure us. He would deal directly with the underwriters for a policy like ours. Yesterday we got email from him:

“I have the go ahead from underwriting to issue this policy. Just to be clear, this is an actual cash value policy where the company has agreed to the sale price of $13,000 as the ACV. If the vehicle were totaled the day after the policy was issued that is the basis on which the claim would be settled. I’m bringing this up because, as a vehicle, the Avion is liable to depreciation from that basis just like any other vehicle. The only way around that might be periodic appraisals, assuming that it keeps its value or even appreciates.”

More depreciation after 27 years??? At least he got the premium well below $300. Sounds like we need to keep a monitor on further depreciation. Meanwhile Wife is questioning if insurance has any value at all. Maybe we'll look into liability only coverage.

[Silverflames]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

I will tell you who is over seeing the insurance companies, No one ! That came with deregulation and the folks you voted for a few years back. I also know of a few people that are covered under Obamacare, no one else would cover them and they are not dregs, they are working people and are self-employed..these old airstreams are no better than an old car or pickup.....

Well said.

[rodsterinfl]

This is what I was saying a year or so ago and kept getting posts back from members saying their policies covered their trailers. It impacts all owners with AS older than five years.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f351...am-130237.html

Several posted telling me to go with Progressive. I contacted all major insurance companies including Progressive. They told me that they have done agreed value but there were several stipulations- have to have it from new, no policy is agreed past 10 years, etc. That is why I was warning others. Each company is different but you have to ask LOTS of questions- if I get the policy, how long will the agreed value remain? ETC. I called Sams General, they lied. When I got the policy is said right at the top Auto policy. I called back and asked if there was a totaling of my AS, how would value be determined? They said NADA- BAD NEWS. I cancelled right away and shopped some more. Basically I found three companies that offered an agreed value policy or underwrite for others.

[floridalarry]

Got an agreed upon value of $32,000 for my 66 Globe Trotter for <$400 with Allied. Required an appraisal within the last two years and does not have to be kept in a locked facility. Contact -
Bryan Rose
Sales Agent
Cleveland, OH
216-802-3866 Office
Bryan.Rose@ngic.com

[rodsterinfl]

Same with me floridalarry, I went though FCIS from a brochure with WBCCI.

[Tom_T]

Before the update, just a note - in California we have an Insurance Commissioner who is supposed to oversee auto & other insurers, but the effectiveness of that & how much insurers can get away with is debatable, but it's better than it was before with insurers running rampant over the public forced to be insured for auto & with mortgages.

As for AAA - specifically our SoCal Auto Club of Southern California (ACSC) - while I was told it was Agreed Value insurance at $18,000 when we bought our 1960 Avion T20 in July 2012 & brought it to the local ACSC/AAA office in Anaheim Hills for inspection & submitted the PPI & Value Estimate - either then or since it was in fact worded in their Classic Car Policies section as "the lower of ACV or Agreed Value" - as noted by another poster earlier in this thread.

So it is actually only a "Stop Loss" for AAA/ACSC so they don't pay any more than your Agreed amount!

To me this is both false advertising to term it as Agreed & list it as such, but then take it away within the fine print of the contract, as well as being bait-&-switch advertising.

When I spoke with ACSC in June before our renewal, they said that we can try to dispute the ACV with an appraisal, their underwriters will have the final say.

I complained & asked them to send a request to the Classic Car division to remove that lesser of wording for trailers, as it has no substantiation in the classic/vintage trailer marketplace, which NADA does not cover (you can't even get a NADA value on an older Avion from the `60's, which works in our favor in a challenge BTW). I also said that we'll switch as soon as we have another true Agreed Value insurer for the trailer, & may take our auto & home business too, & I certainly won't be recommending them anymore!

I'll also have or will be contacting Hagarty (done), Grundy & some of the other likely classic car insurers about adding REAL Agreed Value for vintage travel trailers, since many of their classic car owners/insureds also own the vintage trailers. It will take some time for them to do something.

In the meantime, we're staying with the AAA policy under our 7/`12 PPI/Valuation, & will be updating our appraisal soon (want to do some final upgrades & polish it again first), & will do battle if needed.

With the current lack of real Agreed Value insurance for vintage/classic trailers, there's not much else anyone can do, other than to keep an appraisal up to date & be ready to fight their insurers over low-balling the ACV with bogus NADA sales figures.

BTW folks, NADA is also 40-50% of ACV for a fully restored 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia per actual sales at GoWesty & other Westy Resto/Sales shops/dealers, & NADA shows the non-camper pop-top as more valuable, which is bass-ackwards - they're just idiots & work for the car dealers only!

FYI - NADA = National Association of Automobile Dealers, & KBB (Kelly Blue Book) has long been beholding to the banks & insurers as well. so neither has the consumer/owner in mind in their business model & valuations at all!

PS - I may be reporting this AAA fakery to our CA Insurance Commissioner, if this practice falls under their purview!

Sorry for the bad news!
Tom
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[BigButtUgly]

If you are active duty or retired military , switch to USAA

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by BigButtUgly

If you are active duty or retired military , switch to USAA

FYI for others reading this thread - According to their TV ads, & mailings to my wife & I, & discussions with their reps -

.... USAA is also open for the kids & grandkids of service members & Vets.

I know nothing about their trailer coverage nor if they offer Agreed Value for vintage trailers, but will be checking.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Pillow]

For USAA they will automatically cover the trailer when being towed. BUT no coverage when parked. And I am not sure if when towed that it is liability only versus any trailer value compensation.

But it is a nice perk with USAA if you have a worthless trailer and need the minimum coverage for liability purposes.

If you can get USAA, I highly recommend them for auto coverage.