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Old 04-20-2016, 08:45 PM   #21
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The responsibility of the insurer to the insured is to make you "Whole" prior to the claim. "Whole" means to repair to or replace the asset to "market value". No more No less! So what really is the current "Market Value" on the date of loss?

There are several good posts describing the difference between "Agreed" value coverage and "Stated Value" coverage. "Agreed" coverage is typically only offered on vintage assets and/or assets where the use of the asset is restricted in one or more ways in the "Terms & Conditions" section of the policy. A late model Airstream trailer is a depreciating asset and as such NO insurer is going to insure that asset for an "Agreed" value as the value of that asset depreciates every month. It's a USED trailer and used trailers goes down in value just like a USED car. Airstreams included! You don't accept use restrictions on your late model driver car and as such I'll bet you would not accept restrictions on the use of your late model Airstream trailer. Again a significant part of an "Agreed" value policy are the restrictions associated with those policies which is why Hagerty and all the others can offer collector car insurance as such a cheap rate. The policy restrictions limits the potential loss exposure for the insurer for the car/asset. A BIG part of these policies is that both the insurer and the insured BOTH "Agree" to the value of the asset before the policy is issued, the policy restrictions and the rate (Dollars) the insured pays for the coverage. You also both "Agree" that this asset is NOT a depreciating asset!

With "Stated Value" insurance for the most part you can "State" any value you want as long as that value is market value or higher of the asset on the date of coverage and they will charge you premium based upon that "Stated Value". When there is a total loss the insurer will PAY YOU Current Market Value of the Asset on the date of loss which may or may not be the "Stated Value". In some states like Tennessee that also includes payment for sales tax based upon that payout.

What you have "Spent" on your trailer may or may not effect the market value of the trailer. New tires will increase the market value of the trailer. New curtains will not. Just because you spent a lotta money on your trailer and you may think that money spent on the items makes your trailer worth a lot more might be seen as a waste of money to me. Hence "Market Value" in your local market. That trailer might be worth MORE in California than in Tennessee however we are in Tennessee and not California therefore the "Market Value" number you will be paid is LESS.

6 years ago the Great Nashville Flood hit in May of 2010. My vintage race car was insured with State Farm on a Stated Value policy for $25K. They sent out a knowledgeable appraiser who knew what he was looking at and State Farm paid $25K for the total loss plus sales tax as that was the true Current Market Value. Pretty simple process so YES a "Stated Value" policy can pay in full. As a matter of fact State Farm paid MORE than the "Stated Value" on the policy It's ALL about the true Current Market Value of the asset on the Date of Loss. In my situation the 2 market value numbers MATCHED!!!

I can see one of the Collector car type of insurers insuring a vintage Airstream for an "Agreed" amount. I can also see that same insurer requiring that trailer to be kept in a locked garage on your personal residence/property and limiting the use of that trailer to trailer hobby events just as they do with collector cars. I'll bet VERY few vintage Airstream owners could or would be able to meet the restrictions that type of policy would require must less accept them!

So what's an owner to do? Keep up with market values of trailers matching your trailer. Keep extensive records on your trailer. Keep current detailed pictures of your trailer and MOST important USE your trailer for the reasons you bought it and have FUN!
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Old 04-20-2016, 09:42 PM   #22
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Check your insurance policy - and get ready to puke!

I started another thread about 2 weeks ago, asking where I should go to get insurance on my 1984 Avion which is finally finished. Progressive, Foremost, Farm Bureau, and a couple of others were mentioned.

None offer an "Agreed Value" policy any longer - it's "Stated Value" - which means I can STATE that mine would take $40K to replace, but if I'm in a wreck or it's stolen, they can come back in and do an NADA Blue book and pay $10K and call it good. (I CAN keep all my receipts, have a detailed set of pictures taken of every upgrade, and dispute their total, but I'll probably have a 2 year fight on my hands AND pay a lawyer to get a reasonable settlement.

Apparently a lot of companies have changed their policy offerings within the last six months or so... so if you just paid you premium, but didn't read through the whole 30 page policy, surprise, you may not have the coverage you need.
I don't claim to know anything about this, but last September we insured our 1980 Caravelle with a Progressive agreed value policy written by FCIS Insurance. http://www.fcisinsurance.com/

Under collision and comprehensive coverages the policy declarations page states "AGREED VALUE $XX,XXX.XX" where the X's are the value determined by an appraiser we picked from a list that FCIS provided. So I assume that we do in fact have an Agreed Value policy.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:14 AM   #23
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It is strange that so many of us are getting conflicting information regarding Progressive's willingness to write an agreed value policy for an RV, and what that policy says.

They openly advertise the agreed value coverage option on their website. I changed from an actual cash value policy earlier this year to an agreed value policy. The maximum amount they will agree to is $75,000, so that may limit whether this option works for you and your trailer. My premium increased 6% from my premium for the ACV policy. There are no new restrictions on trailer use or storage. The agreed value policy says that, in the event of a total loss, Progressive's liability is the agreed value as listed in the declarations, less any deductible. This is not a stated value policy, and they do not have the choice to use ACV in the event of a total loss. To confirm this as best I could, I spoke with a Progressive claims counselor yesterday after reading this helpful thread and they confirmed that Progressive will pay that agreed amount in the event of a total loss, less deductible. I sent an email back to that counselor describing our conversation so that, in the event Progressive tries to do otherwise, I at least have something evidencing the conversation.
Best,
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:19 AM   #24
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I should add that my trailer is a 2015 and I'm in Florida, and I'm not sure if my experience with Progressive reflects what someone with an older trailer or in another state would experience. Joe
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:15 AM   #25
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Thank you all for the heads up on this as I will be purchasing for my '84 Land Yacht
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:25 AM   #26
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Insurance is generally regulated by the states. Most have an agency called the Insurance Commission which sets rules and provides some oversight. The reality is there is little oversight and the industry is poorly regulated almost everywhere.

For several years I had Progressive on our motor vehicles and trailer, but one day they told me I would get a big premium increases because we didn't owe any money and only had one credit card. I told them we had two credit cards and excellent credit. They didn't care.

I suppose I could have contacted Flo or the talking box, but instead I contacted a Farmer's agent who had our homeowners' policy for the motor vehicles and Good Sam for the trailer. Both saved us money since Flo must get paid a lot. Good Sam simply acts as an agent for various companies in the various states. In Colorado they sent me to GMAC and I found I could cancel part of the policy when in "storage" (next to my house was fine with them). Even if I called them to put it in "storage" months after the fact because I forgot to call them, they didn't quibble and sent me a check. I do this every year and have saved many hundreds of dollars. I have theft, fire, etc. coverage year 'round and liability and such when it is on the road. Since then GMAC changed its name to National General. Since our trailer is not "vintage", value doesn't seem to be a big problem. I don't know when "vintage" applies either—10 years? 20 years?

Though I would tell a client to read their policies, I never read them until I need to. Maybe I need to.

If someone totals your trailer, your policy determines what you get though you may have pursue someone else for the deductible. If a tire separates and tears up the side of the trailer you will make a claim with your insurance company and either they or you will contact the tire company for the deductible and maybe more. If you damage it (unintentionally), then you have to deal with your insurer exclusively (and maybe your spouse). Intentional damage is covered by no insurance policy. Arguing with your insurer and possibly threatening contacting the state's insurance regulator may help.

In many cases the insurer will use the NADA book because it has the lowest values. You will have to come up with other values from various sources (Forum classifieds have asking prices only, so not a great source; dealers' prices on lots have the same problem; estimated value or a formal appraisal by a dealer or restorer may be the best source that is fairly easy to get). You will possibly end up negotiating with the insurer and a general rule of negotiations is never take the first offer. If they are obstinate, then start talking about the Insurance Commission.

Gene
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:25 PM   #27
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Yes, but....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayseejay View Post
It is strange that so many of us are getting conflicting information regarding Progressive's willingness to write an agreed value policy for an RV, and what that policy says.

They openly advertise the agreed value coverage option on their website. I changed from an actual cash value policy earlier this year to an agreed value policy. The maximum amount they will agree to is $75,000, so that may limit whether this option works for you and your trailer. My premium increased 6% from my premium for the ACV policy. There are no new restrictions on trailer use or storage. The agreed value policy says that, in the event of a total loss, Progressive's liability is the agreed value as listed in the declarations, less any deductible. This is not a stated value policy, and they do not have the choice to use ACV in the event of a total loss. To confirm this as best I could, I spoke with a Progressive claims counselor yesterday after reading this helpful thread and they confirmed that Progressive will pay that agreed amount in the event of a total loss, less deductible. I sent an email back to that counselor describing our conversation so that, in the event Progressive tries to do otherwise, I at least have something evidencing the conversation.
Best,
Joe
My Progressive policy reads the same way. The policy also contains another clause that, in my recollection since I don't have the policy at hand this week, says that in the event of a damage claim, they will pay for repairs up to the actual cash value. It would seem that if they are refusing to pay for the repairs, that is a total loss, but it's not that clearly stated. One would be well advised, as others have suggested, to keep a document file supporting the value. Since I bought my 2002 trailer from an Airstream dealer, I think that should suffice for the near future.

Al
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Gene View Post
Insurance is generally regulated by the states. Most have an agency called the Insurance Commission which sets rules and provides some oversight. The reality is there is little oversight and the industry is poorly regulated almost everywhere.

For several years I had Progressive on our motor vehicles and trailer, but one day they told me I would get a big premium increases because we didn't owe any money and only had one credit card. I told them we had two credit cards and excellent credit. They didn't care.

I suppose I could have contacted Flo or the talking box, but instead I contacted a Farmer's agent who had our homeowners' policy for the motor vehicles and Good Sam for the trailer. Both saved us money since Flo must get paid a lot. Good Sam simply acts as an agent for various companies in the various states. In Colorado they sent me to GMAC and I found I could cancel part of the policy when in "storage" (next to my house was fine with them). Even if I called them to put it in "storage" months after the fact because I forgot to call them, they didn't quibble and sent me a check. I do this every year and have saved many hundreds of dollars. I have theft, fire, etc. coverage year 'round and liability and such when it is on the road. Since then GMAC changed its name to National General. Since our trailer is not "vintage", value doesn't seem to be a big problem. I don't know when "vintage" applies either—10 years? 20 years?

Though I would tell a client to read their policies, I never read them until I need to. Maybe I need to.

If someone totals your trailer, your policy determines what you get though you may have pursue someone else for the deductible. If a tire separates and tears up the side of the trailer you will make a claim with your insurance company and either they or you will contact the tire company for the deductible and maybe more. If you damage it (unintentionally), then you have to deal with your insurer exclusively (and maybe your spouse). Intentional damage is covered by no insurance policy. Arguing with your insurer and possibly threatening contacting the state's insurance regulator may help.

In many cases the insurer will use the NADA book because it has the lowest values. You will have to come up with other values from various sources (Forum classifieds have asking prices only, so not a great source; dealers' prices on lots have the same problem; estimated value or a formal appraisal by a dealer or restorer may be the best source that is fairly easy to get). You will possibly end up negotiating with the insurer and a general rule of negotiations is never take the first offer. If they are obstinate, then start talking about the Insurance Commission.

Gene
Yes read your policy! In 1989 I had 4 young kids and the wife so when an agent came to the truck terminal where I worked out of it was easy for him to sell me a $30,000 life insurance policy. Last month after paying $44.00 a month since 1989 and never missing a payment I got a letter informing me I owed $1,034 additional since the value of the policy had not been enough. This was given to the NJ Ins. Com. who could not help.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:57 PM   #29
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Actually when I wrecked the 2006 they didn't even try to pull the NADA value on me. They did ask me if I could help them locate comparable units for sale (so they'd have the same options and trim level) - and paid me pretty reasonably for the depreciated value.

It was my choice not to buy another 2006, but to go to a 2012 Eddie Bauer. Sigh. It's always something isn't it? And I'll probably keep the Avion until I age out - which at the rate my frustration is building might be tomorrow!

Blue Sky in AKRON Ohio (where I bought the Avion originially!) may be willing to cover me, but I need pictures and Frank Y. is out of town until Sunday.

Let us pray... or as my old male cat used to say "let us spray!"

Paula
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:54 PM   #30
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Whining Again!

Oh the things you learn in life.

I knew that an Avion wouldn't be usable at an Airstream only park, so I was considering a former Airstream park in Florida as a home base for the Pewter Palace.

And I also considered getting a western home base - so I contacted North Texas Airstream Community. I asked them if I'd have to store the Avion off site if I ever towed it that far west. Imagine my shock when I was told that I'd have to SWEAR that I owned no other brand of trailer other than an Airstream or Argosy. (I didn't think to ask what they do about Sprinters and older van conversions.)

So unless I sell the Avion or at least title it over to my sister - NTAC isn't a possibility. Guess I'll make another call to the other park in eastern Texas - even though they never responded to my first one.

Can't OWN another brand? Wow. Not going to get my knickers in a twist but that does seem to be a bit overboard. No wonder they have 20 places currently for sale. Better get a complete list of the bylaws before I even consider this place.


They only allow other brands on for non-airstream rallies... and then the time is strictly limited.
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Old 04-22-2016, 03:00 AM   #31
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Oh the things you learn in life.

I knew that an Avion wouldn't be usable at an Airstream only park, so I was considering a former Airstream park in Florida as a home base for the Pewter Palace.

And I also considered getting a western home base - so I contacted North Texas Airstream Community. I asked them if I'd have to store the Avion off site if I ever towed it that far west. Imagine my shock when I was told that I'd have to SWEAR that I owned no other brand of trailer other than an Airstream or Argosy. (I didn't think to ask what they do about Sprinters and older van conversions.)

So unless I sell the Avion or at least title it over to my sister - NTAC isn't a possibility. Guess I'll make another call to the other park in eastern Texas - even though they never responded to my first one.

Can't OWN another brand? Wow. Not going to get my knickers in a twist but that does seem to be a bit overboard. No wonder they have 20 places currently for sale. Better get a complete list of the bylaws before I even consider this place.


They only allow other brands on for non-airstream rallies... and then the time is strictly limited.
We have hosted at an AS only park in NW Fl. for 4 years and their attitude is sob owners are inferior to AS owners. I am not making this up. They would rather go broke. Sal
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:34 AM   #32
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We have a space in an Airstream only RV park in Show Low, AZ called Ponderosa Shadows. Driving through one sees fifth wheels made by Airstream as well as the Square Streams and Airstream motorhomes of various shapes and sizes. The lack of a uniform appearance does not seem to matter, just the word Airstream attached in one way or another.

They did last year change the bylaws so WBCCI membership is NOT required anymore. However, one must have passed the double nickel life anniversary before they can acquire one of the empty lots.

This is our nearby escape location from the Phoenix summer heat (about 3.5 hours drive) and nearly 6,000 feet elevation makes the place 25 to 30 degrees cooler than the Valley of the Sun.

Some leave their trailers at the park all winter (no power or water) so they must have good insurance incase of a large snow load causing damage to a trailer or one of the Ponderosa Pines falling on a trailer.

We had no problem getting a higher value on a stated value on the Classic with all the extra work that has been done. Will provide the receipts in May to raise the value of the 23D to a more appropriate number.
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:44 AM   #33
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Apparently a lot of companies have changed their policy offerings within the last six months or so... so if you just paid you premium, but didn't read through the whole 30 page policy, surprise, you may not have the coverage you need.
Yep. I posted on this topic about a year ago. It is true for more than Vintage as well. I tried telling people. Some listened but...
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Old 04-25-2016, 10:31 AM   #34
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My newest policy renewal includes :"actual cash value". No definition of that term, but if I have a problem, I will start doing the legal research. No matter what the insurer says, actual cash value means what the trailer was worth just prior to the crash. The argument is mostly over the source of that information (NADA, other such books, dealer estimates, etc.) Take a lot of photos of the how wonderful your trailer looks and all the upgrades you have made. Since I have no plans to total the thing, I will continue to hope for the best.

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Old 04-25-2016, 09:25 PM   #35
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There's hope (I hope?)

kaylorsan, we contacted Josh, and received a quote which states it's an Agreed Value. It seems very reasonable, and I'm remaining hopeful. I'm going to call and verify tomorrow. We currently have AAA, and the policy is now "whichever is lower." I went online to Good Sam Club and (supposedly) received and Agreed Value quote, but when they called me, they said it only applied to rigs five years old or newer. Due your due diligence, folks! I'm fretting, thinking if anything happens to our 98 Excella, our Airstreaming days are over.
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Old 04-25-2016, 10:16 PM   #36
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For several years I had Progressive on our motor vehicles and trailer, but one day they told me I would get a big premium increases because we didn't owe any money and only had one credit card. I told them we had two credit cards and excellent credit. They didn't care.

I suppose I could have contacted Flo or the talking box, but instead I contacted a Farmer's agent who had our homeowners' policy for the motor vehicles and Good Sam for the trailer. Both saved us money since Flo must get paid a lot.
That's interesting. Before we went with Progressive we had insured our trailer for several years with Farmers. Our premium had just about doubled since we signed up with them so I went looking for alternatives with FCIS. We got the Progressive policy with an Agreed Value half again the declared value on our Farmers policy for less money.

I concluded a long time ago the insurance industry was chaotic.
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Old 04-25-2016, 11:05 PM   #37
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A lot of bait and switch preying on those that pay the premium and never read the policy.
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Old 04-26-2016, 04:09 PM   #38
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Saw this 2015 Flying Cloud at the rest stop on I-70 near Solomon, KS. Just came through the hail and rain and tornado warnings. Thankful that our car was unscathed 😃


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Old 04-26-2016, 04:11 PM   #39
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Oops, wrong thread.


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Old 04-26-2016, 07:42 PM   #40
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Well - I got Something!

Blue Sky - Akron Ohio.

It's Actual Cash Value - and if I get it appraised it' can be converted to Agreed Value, but It has to be re-appraised every three years. God only knows what that will cost, and they'd "prefer" that I use someone in Indiana to do the appraisal.

They will also accept comparable sales - easy to find right?

So, everyone who knows of a nicely refurbed Avion 10 meter that sold, point me to the information, please. I suppose I could list it on Craigslist and get offers but that seems to be rather dishonest and a bit of a PITA.

I just placed a biggish order on Amazon for the essential supplies for this baby. Planning to pick it up Thursday. Now when is Falluminum scheduled?

Paula
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