Are we nuts?

[kb0zke]

We're going to be full-timing when I retire in a couple of years, so we're researching all that we can learn. I've always liked Airstreams, even though I've never owned one or even camped in one. Finances dictate used vehicles.

As I read the specs on the current crop of Airstreams, I'm concerned that there isn't a lot of difference between the empty weight and the gross weight. Almost everyone agrees that a full-timing couple will have 2-3000 pounds of "stuff" with them (food, clothes, hobby things, lawn chairs, etc.). Granted, some of that can ride in the truck when traveling, but what do you do with it once you have set up camp and want to go sightseeing?

One of the big advantages of an RV, at least for me, is the ability to have a reasonably secure "home" while you are out seeing and doing things. I also don't like moving things out of the way. For example, the lawn chairs can ride in the truck while moving from one camp to another, and can be under the awning if we're in camp, but where do they go while we're out and about? Put them inside the door, and then move them when we get back? Put them underneath the trailer, and hope that a strong wind doesn't blow them away?

We toured the factory this summer, and DW is now more interested in an Airstream than she was before the tour, but we'd rather ask lots of questions prior to writing a large check than asking one question repeatedly afterwards.

[newroswell]

Airstreams really don't have as much storage compared to the white box trailers and a fraction of what a typical Class A motorhome has. A small BBQ, chairs, tool bag and all the other stuff you'll want to take, all become a pain to shuffle around. It can be done (and is by lots of folks). Some go with a shell or tonneau cover on the truck and keep it all stored in the truck. At least you're on to one of the challenges of 'streaming.

[Jim Clark]

Security while camping has a lot to do with the campgrounds you frequent. Many have gates, guards, vehicle tags and security patrols. I have never had anything stolen while camping and I have driven out of a few RV parks because I did not like how they looked. I leave most things like chairs, coolers, and toys out. I will tuck the bikes behind the trailer and may run a chain thru them. I secure my hitch on the truck or in a tool box in the truck as you can't go anywhere without it. I don't advertise I have a Honda Generator in the tool box or chained under the trailer.

Airstreams are real travel trailers and are meant to travel in. Airstreams tow well and last a long time. The are designed to go down the road and to do it efficiently, which is how you have to camp in one. The are not a Condo on wheels and do not have a basement as many Class A units do. You do have to learn how to use a Airstream and this site is the second best place to do that, the first is in an Airstream.

Welcome Jim

[CanoeStream]

A rule of thumb is about 1000# difference between curb weight (empty) & GVWR -- not quite as applicable to shorter trailers. And newer Airstreams have more options included as standard, giving somewhat less payload capacity. This still comes down to looking at each model's specs.

A listed tongue weight is for an unladen trailer. This may climb a couple hundred pounds as soon as you consider hitch bar, weight distribution/antisway gear, full propane tanks [all these previous are forward-situated and add disproportionately to tongue weight] -- and then your normal trailer loading adds something extra. Do the numbers for your situation. Get your ready-for-camping unit to a scale when it comes down to splitting hairs. Your results may vary but vintage Airstreams can come in as low as 500-600# tongue weight. Newer, recent era longer Airstreams are pretty easy to get close to 900-1000# tongue weight.

And this all leads to asking about tow vehicle payload capacity. Don't forget that the people aboard subtract from that. 3/4 ton tow vehicles don't give the softest ride (disclosure - I have a GMC 2500 Sierra pickup); 1 ton tow vehicles are harsher yet. There are always tradeoffs if you are seeking max toys. A Green Egg, motorbike or other unusual items should be added only after you figure in essentials.

Lucky for us it is more and more frowned on to haul around a lot of firewood.

[Air Apparent]

Since 2006 the Airstream 34 classic has a gvwr of 11,500 lbs and a net carrying capacity of about 3,000 lbs. With full water and propane tanks and my stuff in our trailer I still have about 2,000 lbs or remaining net carrying capacity. If I fulltime I suspect that I will add another 1,000 lbs to the trailer.

I know of a couple who increased their gvwr of a 2006 Airstream 34 to 12,500 lbs by having Jackson Center put on heavier axles and recertifying the gvwr. They did this because they want to do a lot of boondocking and wanted many AGM batteries for their solar system.

[AIR-Quarius]

Welcome to the world of Less is better. As in our case have been full timing for four or five years now, and the storage has become less and less, and thats better while just keeping the essentials. Ours weighs 4600 lbs, but the Airstream tows just like butter. Get some 'coil over' shocks for your vehicle, that will help.

[forfulltimin]

Fulltiming living in an Rv, Airstream or not, is as unique to the individual as the fingerprint.
Everyone plans..and then adapts their plans as they learn what works for them.
Full time living was not at all like a camping trip. For us we used all the storage our 34ft Excella offered.
We had the solar system, the macerator, the quiet generator, the catalytic heater, the bikes (2), four good folding camp chairs, the weather station, two cbs plus a short wave radio, two computers plus printer, clothes and footwear for all seasons, a ladder, a small charcoal grill, an air compressor (useful in Alaska ), a selection of good cooking pots, first aid supplies, a huge tool box filled with drills,rivits,saws,etc., and a myriad of our things.
We weighed ourselves every other year. We paid religious attention to our tire wear. We had the axles checked and adjusted.
We camped everywhere, Mexico, Canada, state parks, truck stops, Elks clubs, etc. We were never robbed or broken in to. We never flaunted stuff either.
If it felt wrong we moved but that was rare.
The Airstream trailer is a tough durable travel partner. It was built to be on the road. We towed it with a Ford dually 1ton 350 with a Reese Class 5 hitch.
It is good to gather as much info as you can. You will make it your own in the end by doing it.

[fmr.capt.evi]

kb0zke, you mentioned lawn chairs.....some floorplans provide lawn chair storage, just inside the entry door (finally got one with that feature, and love it).

[richie rich]

As much as I am tethered to this forum for advice on camping,there is a drawback of a mountain of information.True,the more you know about your subject matter the better,but don't get sucked into the vortex of too much information. The key word here is basic.Brakes,tires,maps,and of course Walmart.A picture is worth a thousand words.In this case a movie'The Long Long Trailer'.In this farce you will see what not to do and what will make you happy.Wave to me.Richie Rich.

[Nuvite-F]

I don't think anyone has answered your original question, "Are we nuts?"

Yeah, probably, but you've come to the right place--so are most of us. Welcome to the forums!
.

[dznf0g]

Heck yeah! Anybody who has an "I, thou relationship" with a hunk of aluminum is NUTS! (Welcome to the nut house)

[smhx4]

Originally Posted by fmrcaptevil

kb0zke, you mentioned lawn chairs.....some floorplans provide lawn chair storage, just inside the entry door (finally got one with that feature, and love it).

I thought zip dee chairs only fit in the classics, I'll have a similar sofa as you. I had no idea they fit in that space. Cool.

[smhx4]

Oh and I think your nuts too, but so are we. Welcome!

[call-me-al]

If everybody is "nuts" then that is the norm and two standard deviations away from the " norm" is what we, the now normal population, consider those who are "nuts"; True or false! (haha)

[Gene]

The question is again who are the inmates and who is normal. Within the Forum, you are quite sane.

So, David, it has been 5 weeks since you started this thread and have you come to any decisions? But, take your time—buying an expensive trailer, possibly a tow vehicle, and deciding whether to full time are all big decisions.

Unless you live in a studio apartment in NYC, you will have some serious downsizing. We store a lot of stuff in the bed of our pickup under a tonneau. Malefactors can't see what is there and we have much better vision to the rear than with a camper top. "Dirty" stuff goes in the bed—extra gas cans, generator, hitch stuff, box of sewer hoses, fresh water contained (not dirty inside, but outside, yes), trailer spare, then chairs in a heavy duty garbage bag.

Our 1/2 ton truck has enough payload for trips (one was 8 weeks), but I'd consider a 3/4 ton for full timing because of more payload. The new Ford EcoBoost 1/2 has much more payload than other 1/2 ton trucks, but it is the first model year and any new vehicle needs more time to check out for problems.

Extra food, tool boxes, maps, books, collapsible ladder, compressor, etc., go in the cab behind the front seats. If I had to have more than 3 weeks worth of clothes in the trailer, I don't know where it would go. That's in a 25' trailer. Four seasons worth of clothes make it more of a challenge with some coats, hats and gloves in the truck cab. A printer in the trailer is a great plus and we installed a small cabinet where the gaucho sofa is for it and a smaller microwave.

I recall one couple with a baby that full time in a 23'—or maybe a little less. I haven't seen any posts for a while, so I don't know how they are doing.

It is very much an individual thing. Long, long ago, when single, I lived in a 400' 2 bedroom cabin with a roommate. Seemed big enough then. Couldn't do it now, but 200' in our Safari was big enough for 8 weeks on the road.

Gene

[kb0zke]

Thanks for asking, Gene. No, we haven't reached a "real" decision yet, and probably won't for a year or two. When we started this journey somewhat more than a year ago, we didn't know much at all. Now, two RV shows, three factory tours, and a rally later, plus many hours on various forums, we're learning a lot.

At this point it looks like the decision will be between a used Airstream in the 30-34-foot range or a diesel pusher MH. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, and it seems that each time we talk to someone we come up with more questions we need to answer.

Yes, we're starting to downsize. One area of the garage is now set aside for garage sale stuff, and it looks like I'm going to have to find more space for that quickly. As the kids visit here, we're asking them to tag things that they want.

I think one of the questions I asked at the beginning of this thread may have been poorly worded. I'm not all that concerned about theft of stuff while we're away from the campsite, but sudden high winds. Any awnings will be stowed before we both leave the campsite for any reason. I wondered about such things as grills and lawn chairs. I don't mind them riding in the pickup while we're traveling from one place to another, but I really don't want them along when we're going to town for church and groceries. A DP has basement storage areas that are great for such things, but Airstreams don't.

One of the projects for this week is to take the numbers from an old Ford towing guide and put them into a spreadsheet to figure out whether one of the heavy-duty F150's is sufficient for an Airstream, or whether we'd be better off looking for an F250. I'm using Ford numbers simply because that's what I have here, and I'm assuming that Chevy and Dodge will be fairly similar. I'm not willing to be bumping up against any weight limits. If it turns out that we actually need to go to an F350, so be it.

[Road Geezer]

So here's some ideas from a newly retired, "Airstream Newbie" with a bit too much time on his hands ...

After we took delivery of our new rig--only last February--we went on a series of long weekend "shakedown cruises" to learn more about the AS lifestyle. This is the first RV of ANY sort we've ever owned.

An important lesson learned was that a lot of the gadgets, addons, and optional "take alongs" simply are not needed. We don't need extra sets of cups, glasses, silverware, etc. Get melamine. We don't need to store very much food, as markets are almost always easy to find either in the area or along the route to where we're going. In other words, these short excursions helped us decide what we REALLY needed, and just as important, what we DON'T need. Our plan, while not to full time, is to take extended trips where we will be dry camping quite a bit. We're about to take our first trip outside CA. Our approach has been dictated somewhat by my wife's desire to continue working for a while, so transitioning to retirement is a process that will last for a couple years. That said, the gradual approach to outfitting our rig has turned out to be a blessing, as it's saved us from buying a lot of stuff that we'd probably end up not using.

The AS is not our home, it's a camper, and it is different. That's part of its allure to us, and we found that we enjoy the idea of not trying to duplicate the style and comforts of our home while in our aluminum igloo. There's a lot to be said for simplicity, and our AS has encouraged us to pare down to what we really need when away from home.

Best regards, and enjoy the hunt. It's a lot of fun ...

Paul

[kb0zke]

We have known for a couple of months now that we were going to be camping this weekend. We still managed to leave things at home that we wanted in Branson. As we get closer to figuring out what we want for a FT rig, we've started making a list of things that must go along and things that we would like to have. For example, DW got a big KitchenAide mixer a few years ago, so I assumed that it would be a "must have" item. She surprised me when she said that if it wouldn't fit in an Airstream (if that's what we get) then she will live without it. Since I like to eat what she produces with it, I'm not sure that I want to not take it! As our list grows, and we look at various rigs, we'll be mentally thinking about where those items can travel.

Yes, we're looking forward to meeting some of you at Acorn Acres in two weeks. Hope you don't mind lots of questions.

[kb0zke]

We're still crunching numbers, looking at stuff, and asking lots of questions.

One area of concern is temperature inside the Airstream, particularly those 30'+ rigs. That's a lot of aluminum that will get hot in the sun, and that heat must be gotten rid of in the summer. In the winter it works the other way. Will the airconditioners keep up with the heat in the summer? I'm assuming that most coaches of that length will have two A/C units. On the other side, if the sun is heating up the coach in the wintertime, will the furnace run so little that the water tanks are in danger? Along that same line, when did Airstream start running a heating duct to the tanks?

We're not really planning on camping at extreme temperatures, but if we're workamping at a place for a month, and the temperature changes, we can't just up and move.

[Gene]

Airstreams are not well insulated nor are many other RV's. There are various ways to reduce heat loss or gain—awnings keep the sun away from part of the skin, A/C works to a certain degree so long as you keep away from very hot places such as the South and parts of the Southwest during the summer, putting Reflectix on some windows, fan openings (when not using them) and skylight will help, parking under trees. If you like Colorado in the winter, these aren't really made for winter, especially sub 20˚ days. People do live in them in midwinter—you need to block off the bottom with skirting, get insulated hoses and expect to spend a lot on propane.

It is more likely the sun will help keep the trailer warm in the winter more than supplant the furnace. Many use a ceramic electric heater to keep trailers warm until the temp goes below freezing and then turn the furnace on. If the temps drop below 20˚ in the daytime, they will likely be subzero at night or close to it. At those temps you need skirting, etc., anyway. A light bulb under the tank can help keep it warmer assuming the bulb is incandescent—about 90% of the energy goes to heat.

It is going to have to stay below 28˚ or so for many hours to get more than some slush in the tanks even when the furnace is off. Don't completely fill the fresh water tank so that if there is a hard freeze and all else fails, the water won't expand enough to break anything. Because of the stuff in the black tank, that one probably freezes last.

Traveling where the temps are moderate is the best way to keep moderate temps.

If you are working while full timing, and you have to travel to extremes of weather, you might consider a 4 season trailer such as Arctic Fox.

Gene