Why do we have so many post comments from folks who don’t have experience with a van.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by richard5933

Still unsure how a tire vibration caused by a defective tire is any different for a van than a truck than a car???

.....

***EXACTLY!***

If you had an Interstate, you'd know the answer. Just for openers, a car is not ten thousand pounds! The way tires behave on your 1994 25' Excella and its associated TV does not bear much resemblance to what happens on an Airstream Interstate!

We Interstate techies mostly agree that what we are driving is pretty much still an experimental heavily-upfit cargo vehicle that was never designed for this kind of developmental application. The load distribution, the operating ranges, the suspension components, the wear stresses, the usage patterns - these things are all different, and they really, really matter! All of them impact everything having to do with Interstate tire choices, tire management, and tire failures.

And that is why, when we talk about them, we want to talk about them *IN CONTEXT* with other Interstate owners. Not with car owners. And not with TV owners.

[Lily&Me]

If only your references were to low-value posts rather than low-value posters…emphasis added mine, the terminology is yours.

This quote from your post #493 in your Ultimate Interstate Off-Topic thread…

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f24...ad-192246.html

“The way to accomplish that is to let the POSTERS do the lion’s share of moderation through some system of upvoting and downvoting, and let the software de-prioritize disproportionately-downvoted posters such that they basically lose interest upon realizing that they are not gaining traction with the majority.

I think that would solve a lot of problems: Let the posters do “moderation lite” and save the egregious violators for the live mods to deal with.

Essentially, I see other Social Knowledge-based platforms engaging in that kind of practice right now, informally, and it helps. For instance, low-value commenting on more technical forums will immediately get you seriously dog-piled - you will be disciplined by more than just one or two concerned posters. And that’s really important because low-value posters drive away the smartest people in the room who ain’t got time for that nonsense - smart people are faced with a large array of good choices of how to spend their time. An experience-degraded user forum will quickly lose their interest. “

These are your words, and you are in fact speaking to the intrinsic worth of the person, the poster.

This thread and your posts are just another rehash of issues with this forum that you have raised repeatedly, and share with apparently a couple of other Interstate owners.

You can try to soft-pedal it, but it is what it is. And, there’s more.

Like this thread, started with quoting a comment that you made:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...rs-220413.html

I don’t understand why you’re still here, IB, particularly if your and your pals chosen method these days of informing on problems posted is thru private messaging.

What are you possibly getting…that is positive…from being on these forums?

Maggie

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

"I don't know how to say this any other way: This subforum's highest and best use is as a resource for helping people through the sharing of targeted information and vehicle-specific experience. The best way to help people is to help them identify the most relevant contributions that are actually helpful (so it's like meta-helpfulness, in a sense). That process, in whatever manual or semi-automated form it takes, doesn't involve an "attack" and it certainly is not something that knowledgeable posters will ever be ashamed of - quite the opposite!

And yet your and your pals choice is to withhold from members and other readers your approach to whatever problem is presented, communicating your input via private messaging and then bragging about it.

What is being contributed here???

I am thoroughly and completely disgusted.

Maggie

[Mikebrady62]

I think you should change your tires to what I use on both your GT and Interstate ;-)

[Ultraclassic]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

***EXACTLY!***



If you had an Interstate, you'd know the answer. Just for openers, a car is not ten thousand pounds! The way tires behave on your 1994 25' Excella and its associated TV does not bear much resemblance to what happens on an Airstream Interstate!



We Interstate techies mostly agree that what we are driving is pretty much still an experimental heavily-upfit cargo vehicle that was never designed for this kind of developmental application. The load distribution, the operating ranges, the suspension components, the wear stresses, the usage patterns - these things are all different, and they really, really matter! All of them impact everything having to do with Interstate tire choices, tire management, and tire failures.



And that is why, when we talk about them, we want to talk about them *IN CONTEXT* with other Interstate owners. Not with car owners. And not with TV owners.

Mmmmm, tires for an Interstate are breaking the boundaries of tiredom for all of us pee-ons with measly Car, Van, SUV, Pick up trucks...... oh and our 8000lb+ trailers are humbled by your experiences in the field of Tire testing for the masses..... Yes in 2021 I changed my tires from Continental to Michelin and it was ........ breath taking..........wow.........ok back to the B-Van bashing regular scheduled program.


The point is yes you want relevant information, maybe you should go build you own B class forum. OR we share "All" our experience, heaven forbid I change from my present Trailer and Tow vehicle to a sacred Class B van and wait for it....a Sprinter Airstream too oh my!!!

[SeeMore]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

If you had an Interstate, you'd know the answer...

We Interstate techies mostly agree that what we are driving is pretty much still an experimental heavily-upfit cargo vehicle that was never designed for this kind of developmental application.

The MB Sprinter chassis has sold between 28K and 31K units each of the last five years in the US alone and over 300K worldwide annually; millions since the first model release. The MB warranty failure & quality control tracking is among the most robust and detail analysis tools in the manufacturing marketplace. As a robust cargo delivery vehicle or customized RV, MB has experienced, refined and maintained this commercial chassis for load, weight, and balance numbers covering a wide spectrum of applications from primitive surfaces to glass smooth road conditions.

How is it an "Experimental" vehicle? I fail to grasp the veracity of your arguments which undermines your iterative posting of a singularly informed expertise and expectation of same from others.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

***EXACTLY!***

If you had an Interstate, you'd know the answer. Just for openers, a car is not ten thousand pounds! The way tires behave on your 1994 25' Excella and its associated TV does not bear much resemblance to what happens on an Airstream Interstate!

We Interstate techies mostly agree that what we are driving is pretty much still an experimental heavily-upfit cargo vehicle that was never designed for this kind of developmental application. The load distribution, the operating ranges, the suspension components, the wear stresses, the usage patterns - these things are all different, and they really, really matter! All of them impact everything having to do with Interstate tire choices, tire management, and tire failures.

And that is why, when we talk about them, we want to talk about them *IN CONTEXT* with other Interstate owners. Not with car owners. And not with TV owners.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. While the specifics of how any particular vehicle responds to the tire defect may be slightly different, there are definitely some universals on how tire defects affect the handling of a vehicle. An Airstream van conversion is not going to respond to a tire defect all that much differently than many other vehicles.

More importantly, I just re-read (again) the original post ScottP posted about the tire problem. There is nothing inherently about the van itself in his posting - it's about a problem with the tires. That problem would exist for anyone using those tires that encountered the same defect. This was not a thread about something specific to an Airstream van, it was about a tire defect.

You and everyone else on these threads has no idea of the experience any of us brings to the table. The fact that I'm pulling an Airstream trailer with a 3/4-ton Suburban doesn't mean that I don't also own (or have owned) heavy vehicles, vans, step vans, buses, etc, etc, etc and dealt with all sorts of similar issues.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One of the interesting things about this is that people popping into threads applies to all the model specific sub forums. Each of the various models has things that are specific to it. Folks don't realize just how different that model is from the rest. The hydronic heat in the modern Classics is one example of this. There are tons of other examples.

What *is* very different is the reaction in each of these sub forums. In the trailer sub-forums, the typical reaction is to point out the difference and move on. I do not know of any of the other sections that are as agressivly un-welcoming as a few of the van folks. This probably makes a new owner think about going somewhere else ..... when that happens, the sub-forum turns into even more of an echo chamber. It's not at all clear what good that serves.

Bob

[wulfraat]

Bob I saw you posted in the sprinter van sub forum this evening offering advice on a victron Bluetooth issue. What’s up with that?

[Gene]

Sorry Maggie and Lily—I was thinking about the content when I got mixed up on names and while I was doing it, thought to myself, why am I writing “Lily” instead of “Maggie”. These van subforum really twists my head around.

Otherwise, this thing has gotten so absurd that I can’t understand why anyone bothers with these guys, myself included. Apparently the van subforum has been made toxic by a few guys with attitudes and now they are getting what they deserved by sticking their necks out. After a while these things settle out and calm returns as the sun sets in the west…..

[bweybright]

Gene, I totally agree...why the snot are all these posts from the the premier van self imposed expert and explorer posts showing up on my feed? Should they not screen them to be secretive and according to some vanB posters so us trailer folks dont get it...what part of stupid are they missing for themselves..... How dare you have posts show up on my trailer feed!!!! Bad on you for posting to something I would see....I quite honesty could give a crap about your Interstate that shows up every day on my feed on this forum...maybe you need to rethink your position in life. You all who think you are special go and find your place. I choose to look, learn, and ignore as needed. And I am totally learning a few who I will choose to ignore in the future from this thread....
My vent is done. I will still read threads and ignore those that don't apply and appreciate those that I didn't know I needed to know. And those that miss the point I will blow by.

[KelloggKid]

ScottP — I usually pick up my iPhone once a day and go to airforums.com. It says Recent Discussions, and lists them. In that initial list there is no mention of which sub forum a topic may have come from. And when you view the topic on a phone there is no sidebar to tell us what kind of Airstream you own.

If you didn’t state which Airstream you are discussing then if you get responses from non-van owners that’s on you.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Gene

Sorry Maggie and Lily—I was thinking about the content when I got mixed up on names and while I was doing it, thought to myself, why am I writing “Lily” instead of “Maggie”. These van subforum really twists my head around.
. . .

Are you "goin' to the dogs" Gene?

Hope it's not genetic.

Peter

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

And yet your and your pals choice is to withhold from members and other readers your approach to whatever problem is presented, communicating your input via private messaging and then bragging about it.

What is being contributed here???

I am thoroughly and completely disgusted.

Maggie

Where did I say anything about withhold?

Yes, we do take some conversations off-forum, but it's not punitive to other members. It's because we get snowed under by low-value non-relevant comments and it's just easier to address the poster's issues WITH the poster and WITHOUT that noise.

If you want to act on your disgust, don't blame the people who are adapting to the situation by finding a functional workaround to it. Blame the people who caused the need for that adaptation in the first place!

This conversation reminds me of Protag, and that time several years ago when he, my husband, and a few other posters were disparaged on this forum as "so-called engineers", when in fact, there was nothing "so-called" about them - they ARE engineers. The mods rightly shut that woman down, but the damage was already done - competent people simply do not need to have that kind of nonsense thrown in their faces either overtly in that manner, or subtly through dilution with non-relevance. And we can count Protag, arguably the single most highly-regarded F240 poster in history, as one of the casualties who is no longer here. It just gets so old, that kind of nonsense. I don't blame him.

[Lily&Me]

“Yes, we do take some conversations off-forum, but it's not punitive to other members. It's because we get snowed under by low-value non-relevant comments and it's just easier to address the poster's issues WITH the poster and WITHOUT that noise.

If you want to act on your disgust, don't blame the people who are adapting to the situation by finding a functional workaround to it. Blame the people who caused the need for that adaptation in the first place! ”

If this isn’t withholding helpful information from other members and readers, what is it?

And how is it functional and not punitive?

Your logic fails me, IB.

And I suspect you really have no idea what is going on with Protagonist and why he is no longer here.

Maggie

[InterBlog]

By the way, it should go without saying that what I proposed here is not a moral atrocity - it is a simple standard procedure that is already in use all over the internet, in one form or another, and for all manner of content.

Perhaps Sprinter Forum offers Air Forums the most relevant and functional example - it engages in "upvoting lite". In other words, it allows upvoting but not downvoting. I guess maybe that method is somewhat protective of more sensitive posters.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

By the way, it should go without saying that what I proposed here is not a moral atrocity - it is a simple standard procedure that is already in use all over the internet, in one form or another, and for all manner of content.

....

Originally Posted by ScottP

... I feel like I have 20+ people blocked just to avoid their blabbering about “when in Pennsylvania back in 1996, well I once soldered a wire”

Ugh -

Dear Scott and Interblog, for many years the Trailer and Motorhome sections have peacefully coexisted on this great Forum with the occasional nudge, "hey , we are talking about a so and so"
Not Once, in 20 + plus years have I blocked anyone for "invading" "sacred" territory.

I am one of the co-founders of the Motorhome section and find your demands and criticism uncalled for and extremely disrupting. Perhaps, you both should consider contributing more value and keeping a good etiquette.
Feel free to visit some of my early posts from March 16 2002 to learn about contributing

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f15...-bags-120.html

Sincerely, your fellow Airstream enthusiast

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by PeterH-350LE

.....Perhaps, you both should consider contributing more value and keeping a good etiquette.
....

Please, someone steer the conversation away from ad hominem, and chime in with an objective analysis as to why the standard method used by other forums, including our sister forum, is not in keeping with "value" and "etiquette".

Argue it rationally, please, right here, right now, WITH SPECIFICS, without simply ascribing moral judgments and outrage.

WHY IS Sprinter Forum morally bereft for allowing upvoting?

Why are all these other sites - uncountable numbers of them - not contributing "more value" by allowing visible designations of "helpful" either as standalone tags, or in "Yes" / "No" upvoting / downvoting format?

Isn't that exactly what OPs and other posters with questions need to see? To resolve their problems?

Why would anyone with a heart OR a brain want to deny those posters a fast-track method to evaluate the inherent value of each posted response? Do we want to HELP these people, or not??

If you don't think it's exactly what those posters need to see, please explain why not. Explain it in FUNCTIONAL terms please, not by falling back on nonspecific moral declarations.

[bwpaint]

Airstream Forums > Airstream Knowledgebase > Airstream Motorhome Forums > Sprinter and B-van Forum

Been on the forum for a few years, and never noticed the sub forums listed at the top of the page. Guess I was focused on how to replace a sail switch in
the furnace, or how to replace the circuit board on my water heater. It never occurred to me that someone might be irritated if I responded to their post. because my water heater, or A/C, or whatever was in a different unit than theirs.

[Shiny16]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Where did I say anything about withhold?

Yes, we do take some conversations off-forum, but it's not punitive to other members. It's because we get snowed under by low-value non-relevant comments and it's just easier to address the poster's issues WITH the poster and WITHOUT that noise.

If you want to act on your disgust, don't blame the people who are adapting to the situation by finding a functional workaround to it. Blame the people who caused the need for that adaptation in the first place!

This conversation reminds me of Protag, and that time several years ago when he, my husband, and a few other posters were disparaged on this forum as "so-called engineers", when in fact, there was nothing "so-called" about them - they ARE engineers. The mods rightly shut that woman down, but the damage was already done - competent people simply do not need to have that kind of nonsense thrown in their faces either overtly in that manner, or subtly through dilution with non-relevance. And we can count Protag, arguably the single most highly-regarded F240 poster in history, as one of the casualties who is no longer here. It just gets so old, that kind of nonsense. I don't blame him.

Hopefully this thread will change the world.