All Things 454

[Keyair]

I agree with you Dean.
Its important to remember it is just an air pump.

My opinion based on many hours of research is if I ever do some mods on a BBC for motorhome/towing use would be this.

If I was rebuilding a motor, I would go with a 0.250" stroker kit from Eagle, which you can find on Ebay for about $1200, which includes everything, Crank, rods, hypereutectic pistons, balancer, flexplate, ARP bolts, and bearings.

Eagle Bbc Stroker 496 Balanced Rotating Assembly 454 60 over | eBay

The pistons would need to be matched to the head chamber size to get the CR right.
The heads I would use would be most probably the larger 781 or 049 oval port heads, which I would upgrade to 2.19/1.88 valves, with a good pocket port job.
The word is that the 781 castings have a larger port runner which in theory could hurt low rev torque, but that would be balanced by the extra cu...

[LimeyRich]

My 2 cents, good plug wires, good plugs, hot ignition module, keep the stock peanut heads ( smaller valves help torque from idle to about 4000 rpm max, and help fuel mileage). the other 454 heads are about horsepower higher in the rev range. 650 or 600 cfm Holley vacuum secondary 4150( so you can have TPI for your 4l80e) or smaller if possible, *with very free flowing cold air system*. Four row radiator. additional oil cooler, additional transmission cooler, misplace the smog tubes and pumps, etc. Banks or Doug Thorley small diameter long tube headers into single 3" exhaust with 2 free flowing mufflers exiting drivers side. overdrive transmission. 80lbs in the tires all around. If you have to get into the engine an RV Hydraulic roller cam with torque from idle to 4000rpm, clean up overbore only, flat top pistons stay under 8.6 to 1 compression. Or put in a 366 ci truck engine with a stroker crank for about 396 ci ( same chevy block). I want a stump puller not a 'Vette. Drive 55, try not to go over 3000rpm. Do not move to California, lol.:-)

[dadstoy]

Originally Posted by LimeyRich

My 2 cents, good plug wires, good plugs, hot ignition module, keep the stock peanut heads ( smaller valves help torque from idle to about 4000 rpm max, and help fuel mileage). the other 454 heads are about horsepower higher in the rev range. 650 or 600 cfm Holley vacuum secondary 4150( so you can have TPI for your 4l80e) or smaller if possible, *with very free flowing cold air system*. Four row radiator. additional oil cooler, additional transmission cooler, misplace the smog tubes and pumps, etc. Banks or Doug Thorley small diameter long tube headers into single 3" exhaust with 2 free flowing mufflers exiting drivers side. overdrive transmission. 80lbs in the tires all around. If you have to get into the engine an RV Hydraulic roller cam with torque from idle to 4000rpm, clean up overbore only, flat top pistons stay under 8.6 to 1 compression. Or put in a 366 ci truck engine with a stroker crank for about 396 ci ( same chevy block). I want a stump puller not a 'Vette. Drive 55, try not to go over 3000rpm. Do not move to California, lol.:-)

I think this is all good advice. Only thing is, I'm sort of stuck with that California thing! LOL.

[dadstoy]

After reading up on "practical" performance/fuel economy mods for RV engines and seeing that some here have installed or are going to install the Edelbrock Performer intake manifold, I was about to look for one. I pulled out my "How to Build Max-Performance Chevy Big-Blocks on a Budget" book written by David Vizard to see what he had to say. Well my excitement changed to disappointment. Vizard specifically writes about the the two plane Q-Jet replacement manifolds and states that with all his dyno testing, these mana folds actually show a loss of HP and torque in the lower rpm range. He states that because of their low profile design in order to fit under the hood, that the runners must make sharp, tight turns which decreases air flow. So to make up for this the runners have been enlarged. This reduces port velocity at lower RPMs. He states these manifolds only show a performance increase about 3500 RPMs and a decrease below that. He states another problem is that with the advantages of a dual plane, one big disadvantage is that each cylinder is only feed by two barrels of a four barrel carburetor hence any stock carb may not be adequate.

He does state that the air gap style manifolds do a great job but again I think this is in the little higher rpm range. And these intakes are not street legal and they will not fit under a MH doghouse.

Given that my 454 cruises down the highway at around 3000 RPMs, climbs mountains around 3000-3500 RPMs and only sees 3800/3900 RPMs when downshifting on the steep grades, I think the Performer intake would be a waste of money and a loss of performance.

[choctawmel]

I read this thread as I am looking for an engine hoist to buy. Pulling the 454 out of my 'Silver Bullet' hopefully starting sometime next week.
What my plan is:
Hydraulic roller cam kit
bore block to next piston size
Stoker kit
high output oil pump
new radiator (aluminum?)
new fan clutch
new aluminum high output water pump
rebuild/replace A/C compressor
rebuild/replace PS pump
new 140A alternator
new hoses
And more I'm sure.
I'll keep my EFI and the 4L80E

Just thought I needed something to do this winter in my man cave. I hope this goes smother that the 4L80E installation of last winter!

[Keyair]

Sounds great!
I would go for the minimum overbore, as wall thickness is more important that max cubes...
The stroker kit makes sense, but I not sure if forged pistons would be a blessing or a curse, as they need more clearance... but are more heat and pressure safe...
I would look at roller rockers too, as they reduce friction, and sideload on the valves...

Cant wait for your build thread!!!

[Waipio Rim]

Finally found a fix to a problem that we have had since we bought the 310 a couple of years ago. It has a 454 with a carburetor. It has always had a vapor lock problem that would show up only when then engine was fully warmed up after about a half hour of driving. It would run all day on the highway and had no problems going up long hills. The problem would show up when I took my foot off the gas, like coming off the freeway. After that, it would do okay in slow traffic, but when I hit the gas again to go up a hill or get back on the freeway, it would act like it was running out of gas. As long as I was rolling fast enough, it would eventually catch and run fine.

Before our last trip I wrapped the hard fuel line from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb. Problem is gone. Apparently that line was soaking up enough heat from the water pump and heat coming out of the radiator to vaporize the fuel.

[dadstoy]

Originally Posted by Waipio Rim

Finally found a fix to a problem that we have had since we bought the 310 a couple of years ago. It has a 454 with a carburetor. It has always had a vapor lock problem that would show up only when then engine was fully warmed up after about a half hour of driving. It would run all day on the highway and had no problems going up long hills. The problem would show up when I took my foot off the gas, like coming off the freeway. After that, it would do okay in slow traffic, but when I hit the gas again to go up a hill or get back on the freeway, it would act like it was running out of gas. As long as I was rolling fast enough, it would eventually catch and run fine.

Before our last trip I wrapped the hard fuel line from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb. Problem is gone. Apparently that line was soaking up enough heat from the water pump and heat coming out of the radiator to vaporize the fuel.

Great find and fix! What did you use for the wrap?

[Waipio Rim]

Originally Posted by dadstoy

Great find and fix! What did you use for the wrap?

One thing that I tried along the way was wrapping the right side header wherever it came close to the fuel lines. That didn't help, but I had some material left over so I used it to wrap the fuel line. It was kind of a shade tree fix that involved zip ties and pulling the wrap up to the top of the engine with the handle of a fly swatter, but it did work. There are better products out there.

[bkahler]

Do you still have the wrap on the header?

[Waipio Rim]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Do you still have the wrap on the header?

Yes. Bad idea?

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Waipio Rim

Yes. Bad idea?

Not really. I just wanted to see what all was insulated. It's possible that if you just wrapped the fuel line and not the header your problem might still be there. Only way to know would be to remove the wrap from the header, not that I'm suggesting that you do that

All in all it's good to know your problem was solvable. Does your rig have the side vents above the front wheel wells?

Brad

[choctawmel]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Sounds great!
I would go for the minimum overbore, as wall thickness is more important that max cubes...
The stroker kit makes sense, but I not sure if forged pistons would be a blessing or a curse, as they need more clearance... but are more heat and pressure safe...
I would look at roller rockers too, as they reduce friction, and sideload on the valves...

Cant wait for your build thread!!!

I would have though, it no ridges, honing would do. The machinist guy said w/o a new bore the new piston sometimes have slop/noise. Got to buy new pistons anyway and like someone said here, 'We done run them at 4500rpm' some boring just one piston size up will be fine.

[92landyacht]

yep, the 454 can take a rebore, but it is a thin wall casting. I'd stay within .030" if possible. Never more then .060" and even then you'll be reducing some life span.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by 92landyacht

yep, the 454 can take a rebore, but it is a thin wall casting. I'd stay within .030" if possible. Never more then .060" and even then you'll be reducing some life span.

The 454 that I removed from the 345 that I'm scrapping turned out to be a factory reconditioned unit that was bored to .060".

Not saying this is good or bad, just a data point although I will say they must have had cooling problems with this motor because it didn't have a thermostat in it when I checked.

Brad

[bkahler]

Something else to think about. This particular 345 (1986) had oil cooler lines running from an adapter where the oil filter mounts to the right side (at least I think it was right side) of the radiator and transmission cooling lines to the left side.

The radiator itself was physically the same size as the one in our 1984 310 which does not have these oil cooler lines. This just makes me wonder if GM is over working the radiator/cooling system by also trying to cool the engine oil and transmission oil at the same time as the engine itself.

I would think a separate engine oil cooler would have been more appropriate. There was a factory installed set of radiator cooling fans so apparently someone recognized the added head load.

I plan on adding a remote engine oil cooler with fan on the Argosy. I like being cool...
Brad

[Keyair]

Funny this should come up... When I was over at my M/H last week I did some detective work....

My 1984 345:
1/ Has the adaptor plate between the oil filter, on the drivers side. This is a common thing, as my 1987 Suburban motor has the same.
Two pipes then go forward along the oil pan bolt line, and I have an 10" x 8" engine oil cooler mounted ahead of the radiator. Some vehicles do have the engine oil cooler on the drivers side of the radiator.
2/ has NO external trans cooler fitted... only the one inside the radiator. I will be putting an external cooler in as a priority.
3/ The radiator is 36" x 20" x 4"... already looking at new Aluminum Universal style radiators. Not found one that is a direct fit, but have seen dual row chevy style 34 x 19 x 3 radiators that would work fine and out cool the original. Not a fan of having oil coolers built in. The whole idea is cheapness and also helping to get the engine and or transmission oil heated more quickly in short journeys. Not something I think is an issue on a M/H.
4/ Just for note... the AC condensor is 30x18x1.5.

My plan is a better waterpump, more efficient radiator, and maybe do away with the engine driven fan for twin electric units... I have my eye on the 2 speed pusher fans from a mercedes 300e mounted tandem.. Junkyards rule!

The engine and trans coolers will be seperate units, so as to not load the engine cooling system and lesson the risk of a single system failure destroying multiple items... FYI, I have seen chevy radiators leak coolant into the trans cooler.... Coolant + transmissions = rapid failure...

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Keyair

Funny this should come up... When I was over at my M/H last week I did some detective work....

My 1984 345:
1/ Has the adaptor plate between the oil filter, on the drivers side. This is a common thing, as my 1987 Suburban motor has the same.
Two pipes then go forward along the oil pan bolt line, and I have an 10" x 8" engine oil cooler mounted ahead of the radiator. Some vehicles do have the engine oil cooler on the drivers side of the radiator.
2/ has NO external trans cooler fitted... only the one inside the radiator. I will be putting an external cooler in as a priority.
3/ The radiator is 36" x 20" x 4"... already looking at new Aluminum Universal style radiators. Not found one that is a direct fit, but have seen dual row chevy style 34 x 19 x 3 radiators that would work fine and out cool the original. Not a fan of having oil coolers built in. The whole idea is cheapness and also helping to get the engine and or transmission oil heated more quickly in short journeys. Not something I think is an issue on a M/H.
4/ Just for note... the AC condensor is 30x18x1.5.

My plan is a better waterpump, more efficient radiator, and maybe do away with the engine driven fan for twin electric units... I have my eye on the 2 speed pusher fans from a mercedes 300e mounted tandem.. Junkyards rule!

The engine and trans coolers will be seperate units, so as to not load the engine cooling system and lesson the risk of a single system failure destroying multiple items... FYI, I have seen chevy radiators leak coolant into the trans cooler.... Coolant + transmissions = rapid failure...

Whether it leaks into the transmission fluid or the engine oil the net result is going to be about the same, something is going to get trashed. This condition is one very good reason to switch to remote coolers and not use the cooling ports on the radiator for either the transmission or the engine.

I do believe I'll be going that route when things start to get reassembled. I had planned on the engine oil cooler so one more remote cooler sure won't hurt things.

Have you considered having your radiator re-cored with a 4-row replacement?

Brad

[Keyair]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Whether it leaks into the transmission fluid or the engine oil the net result is going to be about the same, something is going to get trashed. This condition is one very good reason to switch to remote coolers and not use the cooling ports on the radiator for either the transmission or the engine.

I do believe I'll be going that route when things start to get reassembled. I had planned on the engine oil cooler so one more remote cooler sure won't hurt things.

Have you considered having your radiator re-cored with a 4-row replacement?

Brad

Still a little away on the radiator issue, so all is in play...
I have see no sign of leaking or overheating, but I am concerned about the slight staining I can see on the top drivers side in this pic...



None of the radiators I have seen have the forward facing "remote" filler neck we have, but I could go without it...


Here you can see the "Sandwich" I have...



Engine oil cooler at the front(rh side of pic) mounted on an ugly angle bracket...
Then Electric fan, manually switched from dash...
Then AC condensor..
Then Radiator.

Another view from drivers side.


My gut tells me to do it like this...
Best cooling radiator I can get with no internal oil coolers.
Biggest AC condensor I can get, in the new plate style.
Twin 18" diameter pusher fans with 2 speeds mounted ahead of that.
Engine oil cooler seperate and and a large trans cooler mounted to get airflow, but outboard to not steal airflow from radiator.

4 row means coolant flows left to right 4 times?

[dadstoy]

Sounds like you guys are going to end up in the low 10's with your drag motors...sounds like your going a bit overboard.