Any advice on using home septic to drain black water?

[TG Twinkie]

40 or 50 gallons of black water into a 1,000 or 1,500 gallon septic tank would hardly be noticable.
Most RV chemicals I know of are septic tank safe.
I would not have a issue emptying the black water into my septic tank. I don't think you will either.

[featherbedder]

My septic system is 47 yrs. old only one prob. original fields were installed wrong, at 10 yrs. had to redo every thing from tank outlet, expensive. We are family of 4 early now 3 adults, have never put any enzymes bacteria etc. as manf. own bacteria. There is a lot of bleach dumped into system, some soft foods, never worried about spec. paper never grease. Washing machine gets heavy duty usage. has been pumped 3 times, in 37 yr one time when some thing got flushed that was a no no. Sanitary napkins, disposable diapers etc. never to be put into system. Code called for 4 100 ft laterals I did 150 ft. same orig. tank of 1,500 gals. never ever have had any prob. but soil is good. When hot grass nice & green over fields, never any liquids come to surface. I have several neighbors had same prob. w/fields until redone like mine now no prob. Water even tho no solids going into fields can get nasty if comes to surface. Some areas septic not very good have to use dif. type of system but still same principal. Some old enough to remember old out houses that were close to well and house not a health prob. even when full & time to dig new pit. IMO use septic to dump but remember things not put in system, and if your soil perks well.

[tjdonahoe]

We been using ours since 1979 ..no problems...let her run

[james.mileur]

Having spent two months at my parents farm in north Texas, I schlepped 5 gallon buckets to the clean out Tee I installed outside their 25 year old double wide. There was very few solids left or paper. My dad had never pumped the septic tank, but does add a quart of butter milk each month. Only issue was water draining out of the leach field with multiple teen girls taking too-long showers. Be sure to wear splash goggles, gloves and keep your mouth shut. [emoji23]

[Daquenzer]

1. A typical septic system will have far more water passing through household use than RV use. The idea it can’t handle RV sewage is laughable.
2. A macerator will not be a problem for what little it will grind up. That idea is nonsense. You don’t think there are small particles going down the stool and kitchen sink? The fact is that most new systems have 2 tanks. One tank is for solids which sink to the bottom. The water then goes to the next tank which continues that process further.

So there is no problem.

I use a macerator and a long hose and just open the top of the tank a small amount and away it goes. The macerator works great because you can pump up hill. But it does go slower. Takes about 10 minutes to do a full black water dump.

[featherbedder]

Originally Posted by featherbedder

My septic system is 47 yrs. old only one prob. original fields were installed wrong, at 10 yrs. had to redo every thing from tank outlet, expensive. We are family of 4 early now 3 adults, have never put any enzymes bacteria etc. as manf. own bacteria. There is a lot of bleach dumped into system, some soft foods, never worried about spec. paper never grease. Washing machine gets heavy duty usage. has been pumped 3 times, in 37 yr one time when some thing got flushed that was a no no. Sanitary napkins, disposable diapers etc. never to be put into system. Code called for 4 100 ft laterals I did 150 ft. same orig. tank of 1,500 gals. never ever have had any prob. but soil is good. When hot grass nice & green over fields, never any liquids come to surface. I have several neighbors had same prob. w/fields until redone like mine now no prob. Water even tho no solids going into fields can get nasty if comes to surface. Some areas septic not very good have to use dif. type of system but still same principal. Some old enough to remember old out houses that were close to well and house not a health prob. even when full & time to dig new pit. IMO use septic to dump but remember things not put in system, and if your soil perks well.

Follow up of post. Almost all wells were shallow hand dug and prevalent on farms. This type of well was mostly ground water.

[TG Twinkie]

Modern wells are not hand dug, they are drilled like oil wells. They are also sealed against surface or ground water entry.
Common sense says the leach field of a septic system should not be located near a well. Most codes require at least 100' of separation.

[Ray Eklund]

Hydrology: Permeability, Porosity. Depth of Well. Volume of Septic Tank, how many stages. Leach Field capacity.

The cost, if any, to use a commercial dump site is well worth the investment.

If you tend to use a lot of toilet paper and flush it down the stool... watch the septic tank pumper as they pump out your tank. That 'island' is all the stuff that bacteria do not digest. The human waste is digested and the septic field grass considers it a 'Buffet'.

One telephone call to your current 'Septic Tank Pumper' will give you the best answers. Before you sell a home in Colorado, there is an inspection of the entire system before the sale can close. Why? Because some owners want their problem to become the new owner's problem.

The best solution is to use the Dump Site that is free at many Service Stations and a small cost at State Parks. Problem solved and when your shallow well water is looking cloudy from sediment... it is most likely clay and fine sand. Not the burrito from a trip last year.

[sajohnson]

https://extension.arizona.edu/sites/...ubs/az1233.pdf

"The two major functions of RV treatments and deodorizers
are to facilitate the liquefying of solid wastes and reduce
odors in the holding tanks. These RV products may contain
enzymes or very toxic chemicals, such as formaldehyde. Most
products either mask the odor or kill the bacteria causing the
odors.When such treated RV wastewater is dumped into a
septic system (or municipal wastewater treatment facility),
it can kill the bacteria in the system and ultimately cause
the treatment system to fail. Without bacteria, the treatment
system cannot adequately treat the waste."

~

"When using a holding-tank treatment or deodorizer,
read the label and follow the directions carefully.
REMEMBER, excessive amounts of RV holdingtank
treatments or deodorizers and those not recommended
by the manufacturer can and will disrupt the wastewater
treatment system you dump into. Consider using only
enzyme-based or bacterial-based products. Please note
that the term biodegradable does not necessarily mean
that the product is safe for humans or the environment.
Never use bleach to treat or “sweeten” a tank. Bleach
can severely and quickly damage valves, seals, and
gaskets."

~

"Table 1 has a list of
active ingredients to avoid because of their potential threat
to onsite wastewater treatment systems.":

[Could not copy & paste. See link above]

~~~

Other than the issues with chemicals that kill bacteria, I see no reason not to empty your RV holding tanks into your septic system.

Convenience:

It may not always be convenient to find a dump station on the way home on the last leg of a trip. Being able to dump the tanks at home seems like a luxury!

Cost:

Years ago, it was common for dump stations to be free, or very low cost ($5 or less). These days, free dump stations are few and far between (Iowa and some other states have free dump stations in some rest areas). Most cost at least $10, and $15 to $20 is not uncommon -- especially at private campgrounds (if you are not staying there).

No, $10-$20 will not bankrupt any of us, but when you have a smaller rig, with smaller tanks, and try to dump frequently (to keep weight and odors to a minimum) it does begin to add up.

Related to that is the fact that the dump fee is the same regardless of the amount of water dumped. I realize there is no practical way around that, but that $10-20 fee would seem a lot more reasonable if we had a 45' Class A "rock star coach" with 150 gallon holding tanks (300 gallons total), rather than a Class C with approx 30 and 40 gallon tanks that are dumped when they're about 1/2 full (maybe 35 gallons total).

In any case, free = good.

Lastly, if you want to clean and rinse the tanks, that's a lot more practical to do at home.

[MickeyC]

Originally Posted by Adam Geuss

Can’t see a problem. Working septic systems should be able to handle black tank discharges. Your system should have been under utilized while you were in your Airstream anyway. This said, most septic systems in the north east anyway are “pumped out”every couple years keeping the amount of solids under control. The question I have for you is the exchange process, black tank into your septic system. Inside house toilets?

If you have to pump a septic system every 2-3 years your system is not working properly or you are flushing other than black and gray water down into the tank. I have been on a septic system for more than 30 years and we pump our tank every 10 years. Every time our septic guy comes out he says your tank really didn't need it. But, then again, we don't use a garbage disposal and we don't empty our RV tanks into the septic.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by MickeyC

If you have to pump a septic system every 2-3 years your system is not working properly or you are flushing other than black and gray water down into the tank. I have been on a septic system for more than 30 years and we pump our tank every 10 years. Every time our septic guy comes out he says your tank really didn't need it. But, then again, we don't use a garbage disposal and we don't empty our RV tanks into the septic.

Same deal here, except we do empty our black and grey tanks into the septic system (but generally no more than 30 gallons or so total).

The tank has only been pumped twice since 1985 -- once about 25 years ago to replace the existing drain field which was inadequate, and once because the truck was here for an unrelated issue with a composting toilet and pumping the tank was essentially free, although the guy said it was not necessary.

There was one other time I called for a truck because I'd read that septic tanks should be pumped every X years. That guy also said it looked fine and it would be a waste of money to pump it out.

Like you, we put nothing in the system except waste water. We do not have a disposal and we use a strainer in the kitchen sink to catch food scraps.

I should mention that we do not use any RV chemicals in our tanks. If we did they would be enzyme and bacteria based. I do occasionally use a "Zep" enzyme based product from HD (that is intended to give septic tanks a boost) in the black and grey tanks to help keep them clean:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/ZEP-64-o...T648/100010585

Obviously that also helps the septic system when the tanks are dumped.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by MickeyC

If you have to pump a septic system every 2-3 years your system is not working properly or you are flushing other than black and gray water down into the tank. I have been on a septic system for more than 30 years and we pump our tank every 10 years. Every time our septic guy comes out he says your tank really didn't need it. But, then again, we don't use a garbage disposal and we don't empty our RV tanks into the septic.

1. In the state of Wisconsin it is a requirement to pump every 3 years.

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/assets/pdfs/B3583.pdf

2. If dumping RV tanks is so bad for a septic system then what about all those RV septic waste systems? You don’t think RV campgrounds in the country don’t have big drainfields????

I think there are a good deal of non experts weighing in on what they have little knowledge about.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

1. In the state of Wisconsin it is a requirement to pump every 3 years.

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/assets/pdfs/B3583.pdf

2. If dumping RV tanks is so bad for a septic system then what about all those RV septic waste systems? You don’t think RV campgrounds in the country don’t have big drainfields????

I think there are a good deal of non experts weighing in on what they have little knowledge about.

Not trying to be contrary or argumentative, but I did not see anything about mandatory pumping every 3 years in the PDF you linked to.

I did see that many counties in WI require an inspection every 3 years. Needless to say, that does not mean the tank must be pumped every 3 years, and if the waste hauler is honest they will tell the homeowner if pumping is necessary or not.

This is one of those situations where there is a w-i-d-e range of factors and therefore, personal experiences:

* The type of soil can make a huge difference in how well a septic system works, how much water it can handle, and how long it lasts.

* People/families use wildly different amounts of water, due to both the number of people in the household and their personal habits that affect water usage.

* At one extreme, some people are very conscientious about what goes into the tank. At the other extreme are those who either do not know or do not care and dump household chemicals, kitchen waste, etc, down the drain.

Therefore, some systems last for decades and never/rarely need to be pumped, others need to be pumped out every couple years and the entire drain field replaced after 10 years or so.

Since determining the cause of a septic system failure is often a guessing game, it often gets blamed on something erroneous -- like dumping RV tanks into it (assuming no formaldehyde or other nasty stuff).

[Daquenzer]

The every 3 year inspection is basically calling for it to be pumped. Can’t really inspect a tank full of sludge. [emoji3]

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

The every 3 year inspection is basically calling for it to be pumped. Can’t really inspect a tank full of sludge. [emoji3]

True, the entire tank cannot be inspected unless it's empty, but there is a lot they can observe with the tank full. As I mentioned, every guy that has inspected our tank (when full) has said it was fine. No one has ever told us that there is no way to know if everything is alright without pumping the tank. Needless to say, the septic tank companies have a financial incentive to tell you your tank needs to be pumped -- so when they say it is not necessary, I believe them.

Counties and states all have different regulations and laws, or none at all, but I'd think if the WI counties wanted the tank pumped the text would say something like, "Tank shall be pumped every 3 years or more frequently..."

In any case, for those that do not have government regulations regarding septic system maintenance, it may not be necessary to pump the tank out more often than every 10-15 years. Other people will need to have it done more frequently.

And getting back to the original question, as long as no tank treatment chemicals containing formaldehyde (or anything else that kills bacteria) have been used, it is perfectly safe to dump RV holding tanks into a properly functioning septic system.

[MickeyC]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

The every 3 year inspection is basically calling for it to be pumped. Can’t really inspect a tank full of sludge. [emoji3]

I am sure things are different in different parts of the country. But, that sounds like a money making skeem to me. I am sure the inspector charges to come out every 3 years. Either way, good luck with that!

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by MickeyC

I am sure things are different in different parts of the country. But, that sounds like a money making skeem to me. I am sure the inspector charges to come out every 3 years. Either way, good luck with that!

I was thinking the same thing.

It wouldn't be the first time a business or industry got a legislature to pass a law that benefits them financially.

To be fair, perhaps there is some legitimate reason for the mandated inspections -- like soil conditions are such that failures are common, or concerns about lakes and rivers.

Here in Maryland, septic systems on land within 1,000 feet of tidal waters must be a special type that reduces the nitrogen output by about 50%. The Chesapeake Bay gets way too much nitrogen.

So there are special circumstances, and maybe that's the case in WI, but I wouldn't be surprised if their regulations are driven -- at least in part -- by the industry.

BTW -- dump those tanks into your septic system, just make sure you do not use any nasty chemicals like formaldehyde.

[RamRider]

Pm me and I can provide you information, Before retiring from TAMU I wrote guidelines for Ground water protection which included well heads and septic systems. I have 50 years of experience dealing with environmental impacts of chemicals on groundwater.

I do believe that this practice is acceptable and will not cause adverse effects on your septic system.

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

Most folks are not that familiar with the old-fashioned "cesspools" which are, for much of the country, the only septic system -- a hole in the ground lined with bricks or concrete. Cesspools and their younger cousins -- septic tanks -- do indeed rely on natural bacteria to "compost" human waste.

Do our black tank odor-control additives [often based on formaldehyde?] kill/compromise the action of the bacteria in our cesspools and septic tanks?

An excellent question, to which I have no answers unfortunately, but one which needs to rise to the surface of everyone's attention IMO.

Peter

PS -- This thread might find a broader audience in the Waste Systems sub-forum IMO:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444/

If you use an enzyme based deodorant, you won't have a problem. We drain the black tank into our septic, using a Sewer Solution, both at our home, and at a friends home where we stay for a month or so every summer.
The enzyme product we use is "Consume", which is a commercial cleaning solution......costs about $15 to $18/gallon, and is available at most janitorial supply houses.....I add 4 ounces to the black water tank....

[Gigler]

Originally Posted by daquenzer

the every 3 year inspection is basically calling for it to be pumped. Can’t really inspect a tank full of sludge. [emoji3]

lol