Yep... I need a Cheaper Airstream

[Ultradog]

Does it really have to be an Airstream?
There are some very good brands out there that have more modest prices.
Yes, they lack the snob appeal of an AS.
But what is life if not a series of compromises?

[Ted S.]

Attic Fox/Nash, Lance and Jayco are good from my research before buying Airstream.

[twolanehwy]

Fortunately for me I am handy and am restoring my old 59' 18 footer.
It has gotten all the best so far and will continue to get ALL modern upgrades and best materials.
I am more into boondocking so I am more of a minimalist in my needs.
Got 3" more ground clearance (Dexter Torflex) and less crap hanging down now.
Also doing away with blackwater and toilet. They got them nice lined 5 gallon composting buckets ....good to go...LOL!
I hope to be back on the road by spring but will be years before completely done if ever.

[66coupe]

We are new Airstreamers, and have read with interest the QC concerns and complaints on the blog. We shopped all the RV brands carefully and just did not find in any other brand the long experience, careful design to survive long road use, and clear understanding of how to build for more durability and ease of use. Poor QC has not been our experience, thankfully.

We recognized and accepted we were going to pay more, much more, for those features and attributes. Our first year of ownership and use had a few new-trailer issues, not unexpected. But it was also clear the extensive pre-delivery checklist was carefully used by the dealer. We have not found serious QC issues - quite the opposite. On the few new-trailer fixes, our dealer welcomed same or next-day service and moved quickly to address issues. Traveling with the Airstream has been a total pleasure, and we are waiting out the Northeast winter eagerly planning to get back on the road.

I've watched several good friends buy (much) cheaper RV's, and see them now planning to replace too-small tow vehicles, and/or to trade to different RV's since their cheaper choice didn't get them what they really wanted. In one case, the tow vehicle was purchased first and the purchased RV was too big and heavy to tow successfully. I don't need to, and won't plan to, change out or replace our 27' IS. I bought it once, its exactly what I wanted, and I'll keep it. 66 coupe

[Hittenstiehl]

Two lane that's a nice forklift thingy. Could use of those around here.

[Ray Eklund]

paiceman in post #16 thinks like I "use to" when investing in real estate or purchasing stock. Looking 5, 10, 20 years into the future.

As a skeptic and never back down conservative 65 year old who now looks into the future... as 5 years. Maybe 10 years, but anything beyond is a pure test of endurance of my DNA.

Airstream is among Sears Roebuck, Kmart and J. C. Penny. Thor took a 1930's idea that had its ups and downs, finally grabbing some market share and thrived with the "eye appeal" of an aluminum wingless airplane, towed by an equally stealth vehicle. Airstream should have been looking 5 to 10 years ahead, 5 or 10 years AGO. They sat on their drawing boards and could not imagine anything as an improvement. Neither could Sears, Kmart, JC Penny. Never let an accountant run a manufacturing business.

THE Airstream, parked next to a $150,000 RV, is the attention getter, not the RV. The large RV and Bus is among a directly opposed to one another need of an Airstream. They both share only mobility.

Profits make one short sighted. Times change and so do those potential customers that have grown up in a new technical world with a "dinosaur"... travel trailers.

I had been in numerous businesses... all self inflicted. Some did so poorly, they were fleeting and short educational experiences. Others so profitable due to breaking in as a original idea that came into its prime years after I had begun. That was the "Home Gameroom" business in the 1970's and 1980's. Today... it is a dud.

Airstream has boxed itself into a corner. They are expensive and now cater to those who rode the boom years, saved wisely and now have disposable income beyond just the day to day needs. But this is going to end, and soon!

Fifteen years ago I found myself in the Geological Sciences Book Business. I managed to find so much from Bust and Boom corporate libraries being disposed it was a windfall. Then came the internet, digital files, print on demand and portable tablet devices... physical books are an albatross around one's neck. Other than for my own personal uses... my personal library of 20,000 or so print books... are "Airstreams future". I hope not as it would be a great loss to future generations, but I see no great future for Travel Trailers. Trailers and Airstreams are a depreciating asset. Airstream not as fast, but still represents a generation that is losing the battle over time. Reference books today... a dud.

If our tow vehicles had the same quality control as trailers... we would be back into the 1960's and 1970's with 12 month warranties. On the 13th month rust and parts began to fall off. With aluminum and the shape that appeals to the human eye, Airstreams do have an edge as used assets, but the buyers will be fewer and less likely to want to carry on a tradition that no longer will exist.

This also includes Harley Davidson, when the factory fired up in Kansas City, Kansas. I lived in the Missouri suburbs at the time. Harley and Airstream have that name recognition... and Harley's quality control was the original thought in the revival. Harley's sound and the Airstream's eye appeal strike the primal instincts.. of mostly males... but some females who take these things seriously. Like Paula in Colorado. But... check the newspapers for Harley Davidson motorcycles... for sale by owner. Hundreds and maybe ZERO Airstreams. Watch out if you hold stock in HD. Third world nations have a market for a smaller version, but that is not Harley Davidson strength. Nor Airstreams. Enjoy your Airstream and Harley for personal reasons, but do not expect the new adults retiring in the next ten years to share your interests. Everything eventually is fleeting and just good memories of how things use to be, and not how they will be seen in the future.

['55 Airlight]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Sit back, take a deep breath and think how this "Less Expensive Airstream" will have less of...

(Thirty years ago I DID buy a less expensive Airstream -- a 1966 Bambi for $500; it needed some work, but so did I.)

I've been in the vintage trailer world since 1972 when I bought my first canned ham, a 1960 Highway Cruiser for a few hundred bucks. "That trailer was in absolutely immaculate condition," I would say. And my wife would add "Yeah. It was only twelve years old."

That was when we thought what we were interested in were merely old, affordable good-quality trailers. We didn't know that they were fine examples of mid-Century design. We owned at least a dozen vintage trailers. In the Seventies and Eighties, our trailer would inevitably be the oldest in the campground. Meanwhile, it turns out we weren't the only ones interested in vintage trailers. With the emergence of the near-ubiquitous trailer restoration and refurbishment shoppe, the "hobby" has really taken off.

Witness the explosion of vintage trailer rallies. And the high demand for old trailers in good, restorable condition. The cost of a fully restored, remanufactured (with all new mechanical systems) riveted aluminum airframe trailer, resplendent with beautiful wood cabinets has skyrocketed, but it's still a bargain, especially when compared to buying a new Airstream Bambi.

To the vintage aluminum aficionado, buying a brand new trailer is old hat.

Michael

[rmkrum]

Possible counter example. My youngest son bought our family airstream out of a love of camping and a deep appreciation of the style, durability, and comfort it gives. He's a 1980's kid. I'm a baby boomer.

We share the AS, both do the maintenance and use it. It's got a desk space in the rear for computer and studying use. It fits both our lifestyles, and except for a blown GYM tire causing repairable damage, it's in good shape overall. It will be in our family for a long time.

We're slowly upgrading some of the silly stuff Thor put in it, but really it's no biggie to use it as is.


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums

[robert claus]

The iconic aluminum Airstream is desirable because of the unique appearance. It's really not any more functional than many other brands, but the modern interior treatments make it look unlike anything else available, thus they can ask for incredible prices for a unique product. My Thor stock is doing well, as a result. Would I buy a new one? Only if I was suddenly graced with an unexpected financial windfall. I couldn't spend earned money for obsolete components like wood floors, which is a design choice, not a design requirement.
There are less expensive options, like the Oliver trailers. There is another brand, Escape, made in Canada, which is already sold out for 2016. What these brands have is two piece fiberglass shell construction. This limits their sizes to the mold sizes they have invested in. Airstream just makes a longer frame and adds panels. What these brands need is something to make them distinctive and, therefore, desirable. Maybe if they made them in bright colors like red, green, yellow, etc. Then, you'd see one going down the road and know what it is right away. I've seen Argosy units painted in red, blue, brown to meet the owner's desires. Get a designer to redo the plain vanilla interior and offer a CCD or Eddie Bauer equivalent. There is room for an Airstream competitor, and a market to support it.

[robert claus]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

We had a Westphalia when we graduated from tent camping with our two young daughters back in the mid-seventies and I loved it!

It was our daily driver too.

Seemed plenty big enough for the four of us in those days, but now, many years later I cannot talk my wife into downsizing from our Classic 30 to a B van for just the two of us!

I guess you cannot go back in life! I think I'd be very happy with a B class!


Brian.

The new version of your old Westphalia
First Drive: 2016 Mercedes-Benz Metris

[Ray Eklund]

I went to the Oliver website and am impressed with the advertisment they offer on the internet. Imagine... Nitrogen filled Michelin LTX M/S2 Tires... and nobody is saying the trailer will ride heavy and hard cause it to fall apart. The 23.5 foot double axle has a very nice road side appearance. Price may be elusive on the internet, unless someone already has done some research. The width will be my next search... as a 23 foot to 25 foot trailer is the largest optimal Off the Grid option that I could recommend.

"Newer larger font on switch labels"... as an upgrade? Some of the current upgrades seem to be a struggle to make the newer model... better and justify a price increase. I have not researched their history, but now that curiosity will get the best of me... I will.

Being the "top dog" in any enterprise makes you the target of up and coming competition. A "boxy" Airstream like an Oliver... would not hurt any customer's feelings. Myself included. For Off the Grid clearance... the Oliver has it over Airstream. White is good for hot areas and summer use. They say Four Season Living...? That is a stretch, but maybe not all hype.

An Icon "earns" its status. Airstream will always remain an Icon, but even if production were stopped today... any Airstream still being used will retain that Icon image. Airstream's future... I need to go to the next Las Vegas RV Show and see what I have missed since 2006. Obviously trailers have changed and I have been too busy bitching about Marathon tire problems and batteries...

[Tincampers]

For a well equipped Oliver expect to spend around $45k.

[Ray Eklund]

Escape Trailers... 17, 19, 21 lengths.

Geez... I almost feel like a traitor discovering these trailer options that are popular sizes and finding them on an Airstream Forum. I am going to take a look at their Forums and follow some chatter... Customers are the best advertising a company can have to promote a product. Looking good and actually living up to appearance... I am curious.

If there is any time in the history of Airstream to develop an up and coming model in those sizes... now is the time... or the largest share of the trailer market will already be taken.

The Oliver and Escape do not appear to have that front fiber glass section that was prone to begin leaking on the Arctic Foxes. I am afraid someone else is going to point out another brand being made today in these sizes.

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Escape Trailers... 17, 19, 21 lengths.
...Customers are the best advertising a company can have to promote a product. Looking good and actually living up to appearance... I am curious.

Escape has no dealer network. Nor do they do a lot of advertising. Want to view a trailer? They'll put you in touch with an owner of one who will show it to you. They must be doing something right because their expanding their facility. A couple around the corner from me has one and have gladly offered me a tour and showed me all the features. My only real complaint is the oak millwork, which isn't to my taste.

[Ray Eklund]

Browsing the Escape website and their Forum, which is the same format as our Airforums... I find the Escape Forum having similar routine questions as we. Not as lively... but who knows what could show up...

Many are new owners... most threads are in the 2014 to 2015 time frame. I could tell from the responses to issues, like with a Dometic refrigerator... much confusion as to how they operate and propane / electric options while... driving.

Most owners live in the USA. Obviously production is at a slower pace than Airstream and building a market demand by making fewer but all seem to sell creating more interest. So far I have not found any interior photographs. No shortage of exterior views. Hmm. Same theory as Oliver's production with people inquiring to find used models since the 2016's appear to be already claimed in advance.

One customer received confirmation that their 21 foot would be available several months earlier and posted their "build sheet". Some were awaiting the "build sheet" diagram on the interior to criticize and compare. Down to where the light switch was placed.

Since all are sold by the manufacturer, you are not going to see too many new models on a lot. It seems that someone in an area offers to show theirs to promote sales. A real grass roots campaign that has a following determined to get onto the list.

[Len n Jeanne]

People buy an RV for all kinds of reasons. They have all kinds of concerns and issues about what they do/do not want. They have all kinds of camping styles. So one size just doesn't fit all.

As folks at the small end of the AS length spectrum, we simply wanted a short trailer. We wanted the versatility of getting into the small sites that are still typical of many western public campgrounds; and then being able to drop the trailer and go off exploring in a high-clearance 4WD TV. We wanted to tow it with our Tacoma.

A pop-up tent trailer or A-chalet was out of the question, as we had previously packed & unpacked tents in the rain. We wanted to camp in during the cold-shoulder seasons with some heating efficiency, and in bear country, besides.

A white box SOB was out of the question due to our sense of taste and aeodynamics, although we looked at a couple. We just didn't like their looks, inside or out. Some are just cheesy-chintzy.

We had looked at a T@B (oh, fer cute) but the lack of an interior toilet, let alone the model with the outside kitchen (due to aforementioned rain storms,) got them off our "possible" list. The small fiber glass "clamshell" trailers often have no interior toilet either, and some are so narrow and low-ceilinged that they are claustrophobic. Especially if you need to stay inside it for most of the day due to aforementioned rain storms. Some of the dinettes claimed to seat 4 require the 2 outer people to park their knees off to the sides, because 8 adult legs do not fit under these tables.

Some of the old Bolers, Trilliums, &c are fixable, but some cost more than they are worth for repairs. (Just ask our son.)

Back around 2004 when we saw our first 16-foot Bambi at a rest stop in Idaho, we were intrigued. After locating a lightly used one at Can-Am, we knew we'd found our match. (The 2005 was an International, with stone guards, rear storage bumper, and metal propane tank cover standard equipment, unlike the newer Sports.) While getting the hitch set up in the Can-Am service shop, we saw a big white box SOB with its entire back exterior paneling off, and the pink insulation beneath it black with mold. It's not like the Jolly Jumbos don't have serious problems.)

Snob appeal had nothing to do with buying an AS. In fact, we prefer not to get all the Looky Lou questions about how much we paid for it. It was more like love at first sight, appreciation of the relative interior roominess for a small trailer, and the quality design.

Sure, things go wrong with them. But isn't this the nature of a RV? (Comparable to owning a house, in-ground swimming pool, boat, or possibly a small plane?)

We would still have the 16-footer if it wasn't smashed in an accident. It had a few problems in the first year, when thankfully it was under the dealer's warranty, so they made all the repairs. We've taken our 19-foot FC from BC to SoCal, plus other trips in between, and the only problem in thousands of miles and something like 3 months total on the road in 2015, was a jammed lock on the exterior storage compartment.

We are really happy with our 19-foot 2015 FC.

[Len n Jeanne]

p.s. One thing to think about for some of the fiberglass trailers with no dealerships nearby is that if something goes kaflooey, and it's under warranty, whether you'd have to return it to the manufacturer for repairs.

I just checked the Oliver website. On their 18'5" model, the interior height is 6' 1". On their 23' model it is 6'6".

[Ray Eklund]

Oliver's Forum has also a lot of enthusiasm having a production date given to the customer. Most appear to be younger adults with young under 12 year old children. An emerging market for the smaller, less expensive trailer market.

The enthusiasm is healthy and I wish them all well and get many years of travel.

I will be anxious to visit with owners on my future travels. More so, to get different opinions and ideas and what we and they have in common and not in common with Airstreams. The enthusiasm in contagious among those younger than 40 and it shows on their Forum.

The Airstream we are familiar is beyond the Oliver and Escape, but where will these younger trailer owners going to find themselves looking in five or more years? Maybe upgrading into our favorite lengths and options as their family grows and demand more conveniences.

Am I ready to part with my 25 foot Airstream? No way. My interest is at the present is to check out Airstream's competition and be pleasantly surprised to see an Aluminum Hybrid Airstream that will keep Jackson Center humming... and all of us thrilled to have a younger generation to follow in our tracks. Or at least... two ruts in my case.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by Len n Jeanne

p.s. One thing to think about for some of the fiberglass trailers with no dealerships nearby is that if something goes kaflooey, and it's under warranty, whether you'd have to return it to the manufacturer for repairs.

******
Agreed. Great summary on the other post.

Our friends had an 25 foot Arctic Fox. They spent a $1000+ they say, fixing the front from leaking and with their new Tundra had crunched one side and replaced the entire front. From our 2006 RV Show, the Arctic Fox had less cardboard walls than other brands at the show.

The Airstream... was far superior in ALL points, but price. Following our train of thought... Once the Price is Forgotten the Quality Remains!

I would like to find Airstream breaking into the young family 25 to 45 year old market and create the same drama and enthusiasm. These are not struggling adults, but families watching their budgets. When Airstream can offer a serious option at a similar price... the fallout of the competition may be severe. Much like when Wally Byam in the 1930's appeared to have every other aluminum riveted trailer wanting more of the market during the worst of times for an economy.

What a wonderful time for those of us who are retired and see so much going on in the 16 foot to 23 foot trailer market. Thor needs to act fast and that was ten years too late.

[Len n Jeanne]

Thanks, Ray. I was going to add to my latest post that the comparable interior height on the 19' FC is 6' 7.5", including the ceiling-mounted Air conditioner. I couldn't tell if the Oliver interior height included the AC unit or not.

But the point being, that some of these newer fiberglass trailers may feel a bit cramped for taller or larger people. Something to consider.