Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-28-2015, 01:38 PM   #61
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
Images: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCwheels View Post
Agreed! The "outside in" flow is wasteful and VERY difficult to standardize. Continuous improvement can only be built upon a foundation of standardized work. Airstream could make a better trailer cheaper with higher quality components if it dramatically reduced configurations and re-thought construction flow. The best evidence of the waste, imbalance, and strain in production ops is their own tour. Even the video tour is hard to watch when you understand what mfg should look like in today's competitive world.

That said, I LOVE my trailer and think they did a decent job even with such poor workflow. That's a credit to the workers who put it together in spite of the obstacles the process puts in their way.

I LOVE pragmatism!

You just made my day. There is hope!


Brevi tempore!
__________________

__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 04:32 PM   #62
Rivet Master
 
m.hony's Avatar
 
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
Indeed, this is intended to be philosophical. How can Airstream build and sell a similar product for less, retain quality and provide the amenities that a first purchaser will be pleased?

Dan Post #50. So far we are absolutely 100% satisfied with our new International. The refrigerator fan is noisy and it does not shut down, but will have the new part installed that operates the fan. I will also take the advice on replacing the noisy original fan with something quieter. Everything works and replaced the 2006 because the bed, refrigerator and just a bit more space would last us for 20 years!

m.hony post #50 and Toyotas. I was so disappointed with my new 3/4 ton Chevrolet pickup truck in 1978 from mechanical failures, improper factory part on the transmission and rusting door after the third year... traded it in for a full sized "mini" Toyota pickup in 1981. We have owned Land Cruisers up to 248,000 miles and they sold quickly at top dollar looking new on the exterior and running perfectly. The front wheel bearings and differentials were the only parts needing replacement when we sold due to wear issues found with 200,000 +/- mileage. Today, we have a 2008 model Land Cruiser that we will keep until we cannot drive, and my 2012 Sunday 5.7L 4x4 that has operated flawlessly. Owned a Land Cruiser since 1985 with the six cylinder up to today's 5.7L!

All of our Toyota Land Cruisers were replaced at 150,000+ miles with a later model. Our Toyota pickup trucks before 100,000 miles and sell fast. Our 2008 was replaced with a 2012 Crew Max and never have had one issue, problem or complaint on either, but the back seat area gave us more room.

Our second option would have been a Ford F250, but did not want diesel and the one with the New Mexico ranch model was a piece of art. Like an Airstream.

Our 2014 Airstream was selected, after my wife and I tested EVERY OPTION as if it were a used model. Many at the dealer's lot had faulty vent fans, or very noisy. Some were hanging from the ceiling being replaced as we looked at the 2014's and 2015's. We felt we had a good price in our negotiations.

Quality for the price... Toyota and Airstream have met our expectations and am confident that both will serve us well for years.

Absolutely-
When/if I ever buy another pickup it will be another Tundra-
Period.
Current Tundra at 51,000 miles, so maybe never...

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
I LOVE pragmatism!

You just made my day. There is hope!


Brevi tempore!

Yep, stepping over parts, air hoses, and extension cords in a cluttered, crowded space at Jackson Center, and then touring another plant like, say, Corvette in Bowling Green-
Maybe the plant expansion helped relieve some of this?


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________

__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
m.hony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 06:49 PM   #63
Rivet Master
 
Piggy Bank's Avatar
 
2019 27' Flying Cloud
Kansas City , Missouri
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,591
I still say that the basis of expanding the customer base needs to address not needing a new vehicle to pull it.

Look at US cars in the 1950s. Huge and getting huger. Then along comes the VW beetle and it's a paradigm shift.

The pull behind trailer segment is getting huger and huger with massive 5th wheels and slides. AS and the SOBs.

What is needed is an option unit that screams I am Nimble, I am Different, I am Easy, I am Fun, I am Innovative.

Users will Trust it because it is an Airstream.
But users will WANT it because it is nimble, different, easy, fun, and innovative.

And they will not be willing to buy a truck to pull it.
__________________

Piggy Bank
Piggy Bank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 06:57 PM   #64
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
Images: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
Yep, stepping over parts, air hoses, and extension cords in a cluttered, crowded space at Jackson Center, and then touring another plant like, say, Corvette in Bowling Green-
Maybe the plant expansion helped relieve some of this?


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

Anytime we are talking about working inside of a structure instead of a "real" assembly line is is going to be cluttered with people and their tools...

Ben there and done that...


Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 07:38 PM   #65
Rivet Master
 
m.hony's Avatar
 
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
The Airstream factory is obviously not ISO9000 certified!
I wonder if the process could ever be more like an automobile assembly line?
Even Harleys are built more like an automobile on an assembly line.

I think we need to bring them boys on down here to Mississippi and show 'em how to organize/straighten a warehouse!


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
m.hony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 08:06 PM   #66
Rivet Master
 
TCwheels's Avatar
 
2011 20' Flying Cloud
Traverse City , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 591
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
The Airstream factory is obviously not ISO9000 certified!
I wonder if the process could ever be more like an automobile assembly line?
Even Harleys are built more like an automobile on an assembly line.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

With the low volume/high product mix combination the best flow would be cellular. Groups of lengths assembled in 2-3 cells (for trailers) with interiors modularized and components delivered to the cells via pull signals. The larger trailer cell could probably not be "u" shaped, which is ideal, because of the square footage needed to build 30' units in a "u" shaped flow, but perhaps an "L" shape. Redesigning the whole flow of the trailers would actually be fun!
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
TCwheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 08:13 PM   #67
Rivet Master
 
TouringDan's Avatar

 
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg , Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,611
I just read this entire thread. What I have taken away is that if you really want a cheaper Airstream then do as Msmoto suggested in #20 and buy a gently used one. Folks buy new ones because it is easy, they can afford to and that is what they want- similar to why folks buy a new car.

What really bothers me about the new Airstreams is not the quality control issues, but the decisions that are made like single stage convertors, cheap batteries and inadequate solar systems. Come on Airstream, if you are building the best travel trailer then install the best components. What would Wally think?

Dan
TouringDan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 10:53 PM   #68
Len and Jeanne
 
Len n Jeanne's Avatar
 
2005 16' International CCD
2015 19' Flying Cloud
Creston Valley , British Columbia
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,725
rodsterinfl, I wonder if AS replacements every 5 years are due to "two-foot-itis," as there seems to be a correlation between the age of the unit and its length when I see members who've owned more than one unit. It's also possible that owners' needs and wishes change, for example, retirees planning to spend more time on the road. I don't think it's a quality issue, as newer used Airstreams are in high demand, precisely because they are typically still in good nick, but without the need for major renos that many prospective buyers have neither the time nor the skills to undertake.

Piggy Bank, we've been a one-vehicle couple for a long time. Sure, most people live in cities where a big truck is a disadvantage for commuting and city parking. But a truck is a huge asset for pulling a trailer in terms of overall stability; and the less storage space there is on the trailer, the more of an asset a capped truck bed becomes. Our storage space in the 19' AS is limited, but we have more room for gear in the capped back end of our Tundra than we have actually wanted to bring on a long trip-- including a large-capacity biffy box, camp chairs & folding table, luggage, BBQ grill, canoe paddles, life vests, generator, jerry cans for gas & water, box for recyclables, backpacks, and probably other bulky stuff I forgot at the moment. A SUV would be suitable for the roads we like to explore on camping trips, but we'd sacrifice too much on the storage space.

Paradoxically, the smaller the trailer, the more useful a large vehicle becomes for carrying gear.

Trucks are much more popular than city cars in rural areas, and even more than SUVs, precisely for their hauling capacity.

TouringDan, I wonder if a lot of people rely on full hookups and don't boondock. We upgraded our factory-issue batteries soon after buying our current AS.
Len n Jeanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 05:52 AM   #69
Rivet Master
 
TCwheels's Avatar
 
2011 20' Flying Cloud
Traverse City , Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 591
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
I LOVE pragmatism!

You just made my day. There is hope!


Brevi tempore!

Thanks! There is always hope!
__________________
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of better."
TCwheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 08:35 AM   #70
Rivet Master
 
switz's Avatar

 
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,511
Images: 8
From our perspective, our first trailer (2013 25FB International Serenity) was the teacher since we had no prior RV experience. I certainly learned a huge lesson about "catalog" buying versus dealer visitation. I had great expectations that my existing car (2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel) would tow the 25FB with no issues.

After loading the 25FB for camping and with my wife also in the car, the CAT scales told me we were overloaded on the Mercedes axle capacity. Whoops.

Then after the acquisition of a more weight capacity tow vehicle (2012 Dodge Ram 2500HD Cummins), we went camping and the trailer floor plan became a major issue for us. The trailer itself (made in June of 2012 when production was MUCH slower) had NO issues when we got it and worked as advertised except for the dealer installed 155 watt solar system was inadequate to recharge the batteries after the furnace ran all night. We had to run our generator to recharge the battery in a no hookup camping situation (Albuquerque Balloon Festival).

We decided to change ships and moved to the 31' 2014 Classic. After extensive modifications, we expect this will be our first and last long distance traveler and down the road be parked for the summer on our lot in an Airstream only RV park (Ponderosa Shadows) in the mountain area of Show Low, Arizona.

We then acquired a 2015 23D International Serenity that is perfectly matched to our 2007 Mercedes for short trips to the smaller older RV parks of the SouthWest.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 900 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
switz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 10:14 PM   #71
59' Globester
 
twolanehwy's Avatar
 
1959 18' "Footer"
1957 26' Overlander
Three Rivers , California
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum View Post
Way off topic, but the guy that invented the fork lift was a friend of the family. Started the Towmotor company years ago. Really nice guy as well.


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums
i hope he made some money.
twolanehwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 10:57 PM   #72
Rivet Master

 
2007 22' International CCD
Corona , California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,013
Yep... I need a Cheaper Airstream

He retired as the biggest single shareholder in Caterpillar Corporation. They bought him out years ago.

He had more money than he and his wife ever needed, and never showed off. Wonderful gentleman that died too soon IMHO. Could tell a few stories about him but I still respect him too much.... My dad loved working for them. That in itself should tell you what a nice guy he was.


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
rmkrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 07:35 AM   #73
3 Rivet Member
 
lindaebrewer's Avatar
 
2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Sacramento , California
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 106
Images: 2
I have to disagree w Human about the millennials not being into camping. Our 5 adult children & small off-spring are ALL into camping - TENT camping just like we were when it was all we could afford. Additionally, we see nothing but young families in the campgrounds at Lake Tahoe and on the hiking/biking trails nearby. Admittedly we were initially taken aback by the hoards of them, but ultimately damned glad to see them raising their children to also love the wilds.
lindaebrewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2015, 12:52 PM   #74
2 Rivet Member
 
TanCanMan's Avatar
 
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Vintage Kin Owner
Katy , Texas
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 41
Images: 10
Am I missing something? Isn't this what the Argosy was in the 70's? - a lower content AS but similar construction quality? I know they tried out new concepts on the Argosy before incorporating them into the higher line AS; like the large front pano windows. Steel end caps and aluminum flooring (in the Minuets) didn't make it but pretty much the descriptive "painted Airstream" kind of covers it.

I would think there would be a good market for a well built, tasteful, light weight trailer without the interior decor of a brothel. If they were to reintroduce a less expensive model similar to the 24ft rear door Argosy I'd be in line.

The Escape and the Bigfoot are both excellent trailers built to last and travel for may years. The non-leaking molded fiberglass construction is also appealing. Escape has sold out their production run through 2016 with used ones selling for close to their original price. Of course, the U.S. dollar being so strong against the Canadian dollar makes them an even better deal right now.
__________________

__________________
The road goes on forever and the party never ends... Thks to REK
TanCanMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yep, it's THOSE steps Jim & Susan Steps 26 01-17-2020 02:50 PM
An Idea For Cheaper Upholstery Fabric rebelstand Upholstery, Blinds, Walls & Interior Finishes 7 12-26-2015 12:28 PM
Cheaper TV System Don Landis Audio, Video & TV 8 05-07-2015 07:48 PM
Yep, Broke that record! Action Off Topic Forum 13 07-24-2006 12:27 AM
Need HELP! Need help quick - dropping the belly pan escapeez Belly Pans & Banana Wraps 8 12-30-2002 06:03 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.