Traveling while refrigerator is running on propane

[Philip Jones]

Sorry - story about origin of s h i t seems to be an urban legend. Nice story though...

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/****.asp

[switz]

Having cleaned a lot of horse stalls in my youth, the air is certainly acrid in that environment. By contrast, cattle by products are more base. So we spread the horse by products on a field, but needed to let the cattle roam to reduce the acidity in the soil.

[John Oliver]

I always travel with the gas ON. Keep the freezer as full as possible to conserve colder temps.

Since we Boondock, almost exclusively, in order to conserve battery power, I generally turn the fridge OFF when we go to bed, and back on when I get up in the am. Never had any issues what-so-ever. we can stay off grid for 4-5 days with no problem and never have food issues. Just remember to turn off water pump when not actually using water. The pressure switch will constantly cycle pump off and on just to maintain pressure in the system- A BIG user of electricity.

[1973Argosy]

Originally Posted by John Oliver

I always travel with the gas ON. Keep the freezer as full as possible to conserve colder temps.

Since we Boondock, almost exclusively, in order to conserve battery power, I generally turn the fridge OFF when we go to bed, and back on when I get up in the am. Never had any issues what-so-ever. we can stay off grid for 4-5 days with no problem and never have food issues. Just remember to turn off water pump when not actually using water. The pressure switch will constantly cycle pump off and on just to maintain pressure in the system- A BIG user of electricity.

The fridge on and off I get for saving of propane but my water pump will hold pressure for 5 to 6 hours before it kicks on. If your pump is constantly cycling on and off I would think you either have a bad pump or a leak somewhere in the system. Loosing water on a boondock is a bigger fear for me than having to reharge the batteries.....

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by John Oliver

Just remember to turn off water pump when not actually using water. The pressure switch will constantly cycle pump off and on just to maintain pressure in the system- A BIG user of electricity.

I installed a small pressure tank in the system so the pump doesn't cycle on and off as much. We still turn the pump off if we're travelling or going to be out for a while, but not all the time. I also found that the backflow valve in the pump was failing, which causes the pump to come on more often, so I installed an additional backflow valve after the pump.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

I installed a small pressure tank in the system so the pump doesn't cycle on and off as much. We still turn the pump off if we're travelling or going to be out for a while, but not all the time. I also found that the backflow valve in the pump was failing, which causes the pump to come on more often, so I installed an additional backflow valve after the pump.

Hi

After reading about this, I paid a lot of attention to the pump on our trailer over the last 10 days. It never came on by it's self. The only times it ran were while water was flowing or one "burp" after the water had been shut off. That burp might have been an hour later.

If the pump is running all the time, you have a leak. That can be in the pipes, or in the pump, or in a valve / faucet. It's leaking somewhere ....

Bob

[boblind]

I use a 12 vdc to 120 vac invertor to power my dometic refrigerator while traveling. I use a separator wiring system from the battery of my 2002 Dodge 3/4 ton to the inverter. The refrigerator uses 175 watts, I installed a 300 watt inverter on the refrigerator circuit.
I been using this system for 5+ years, I do not travel with propane turned on, it's a fire waiting to happen.
If I'm going to stop and play a round of golf which takes 4+ hours I switch over to propane.

[1973Argosy]

Originally Posted by boblind

I use a 12 vdc to 120 vac invertor to power my dometic refrigerator while traveling. I use a separator wiring system from the battery of my 2002 Dodge 3/4 ton to the inverter. The refrigerator uses 175 watts, I installed a 300 watt inverter on the refrigerator circuit.
I been using this system for 5+ years, I do not travel with propane turned on, it's a fire waiting to happen.
If I'm going to stop and play a round of golf which takes 4+ hours I switch over to propane.

So all of our refrigerator manuals are wrong and there must be a whole slew of horror stories of rv'ers burning down fuel stations. Can anyone find a news article that links a refrigerator to a fire? Been running with mine on for 17 years. Have been enjoying rving since the age of 10 when dad bought his first motorhome. After 35 years of many many miles between motorhomes that never shutdown their generators (live in the south, have to have that ac going) and around 50000 miles that I have towed my trailer I've yet to see a fire caused by a propane refrigerator. Thinking back the only fire I have personally seen on an rv was caused by a battery that melted down while underway. It was a brand new interstate battery in a Holiday Rambler motorhome, and man does fiberglass burn fast........

[Philip Jones]

I’ll say it again - in my opinion one is far more likely to run into a problem with food poisoning than a fire/explosion when one tows with the fridge off.

It is all a matter of probabilities. The probability of explosion is low (but not zero), but the probability of food poisoining is higher.

Pick your poison.

[Rfriebele]

In terms of probability, I saw a table of stats once that listed RV propane fires way down at the bottom from torn hoses in an accident. The chances of fire from the fridge flame while refueling are incredibly remote. It's far more likely to come from a static spark at the nozzle which according to the table, was something akin to winning a Powerball. The major cause of death from RVing besides highway crashes? CO poisoning but even that's extremely remote now that we all have detectors.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by 1973Argosy

So all of our refrigerator manuals are wrong and there must be a whole slew of horror stories of rv'ers burning down fuel stations. Can anyone find a news article that links a refrigerator to a fire? Been running with mine on for 17 years. Have been enjoying rving since the age of 10 when dad bought his first motorhome. After 35 years of many many miles between motorhomes that never shutdown their generators (live in the south, have to have that ac going) and around 50000 miles that I have towed my trailer I've yet to see a fire caused by a propane refrigerator. Thinking back the only fire I have personally seen on an rv was caused by a battery that melted down while underway. It was a brand new interstate battery in a Holiday Rambler motorhome, and man does fiberglass burn fast........

Hi

Gas station fires in general are not all that common. When was the last time you saw one go up in a giant ball of flames? (in person, not on TV or YouTube ...). Even when there is a fire, unless somebody has video (or there is loss of life) it does not make the news.

The level of investigation of the *why* on most fires is pretty basic. If there are injuries or death it's going to be a bit more involved. The number of in depth digs into these fires is a (probably disappointing) percentage of the total.

So, all that said:

NFPA from 2011 claims that there are 5,200 gas station fires in the US in a typical year. That's based on calls to fire departments. Since this really is "fires called in by (or at) gas stations" the fire could be from a traffic accident in front of the station.

Slightly over half are vehicle fires. 28% of vehicle fires involve gasoline as the first thing ignited. Going through their math, that's about 888 fires per year for gasoline + vehicles. Of those, 159 do not start with passenger vehicles. There is no (obvious) data on how many vehicle fires started in service bays vs at the pumps.

We set about 100 gas stations on fire a week. We have roughly 3 fires a week that *might* involve something like an RV and gasoline in some way. Obviously the "not passenger vehicle" group covers a *lot* of things ....

There are roughly 160,000 gas stations in the US. We set 3% of them on fire each year (assuming no duplicates). We set them on fire a lot of ways, most of those ways don't involve gasoline at all....

Bob

[Rfriebele]

I still see morons at gas stations with lit cigarettes in their face while standing next to 3ft. of warning decals on the pump... but never seen it start a fire!

[prairieschooner]

Originally Posted by boblind

I use a 12 vdc to 120 vac invertor to power my dometic refrigerator while traveling. I use a separator wiring system from the battery of my 2002 Dodge 3/4 ton to the inverter. The refrigerator uses 175 watts, I installed a 300 watt inverter on the refrigerator circuit.
I been using this system for 5+ years, I do not travel with propane turned on, it's a fire waiting to happen.
If I'm going to stop and play a round of golf which takes 4+ hours I switch over to propane.

I like it!

[halfloaf]

Originally Posted by Rfriebele

I still see morons at gas stations with lit cigarettes in their face while standing next to 3ft. of warning decals on the pump... but never seen it start a fire!

I have, and it's one of the most horrible things you'll ever see. Since when it does happen it's on pretty much every news channel ever I have no idea how a person wouldn't see one on TV.

It doesn't happen often because it requires exactly the right amount of oxygen mixing to allow the fire, so even with a flame it is unlikely to happen. (And many a criminal has been frustrated when they weren't able to set gas on fire like in the movies.)

[jdalrymple]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Gas station fires in general are not all that common. When was the last time you saw one go up in a giant ball of flames? (in person, not on TV or YouTube ...). Even when there is a fire, unless somebody has video (or there is loss of life) it does not make the news.

The level of investigation of the *why* on most fires is pretty basic. If there are injuries or death it's going to be a bit more involved. The number of in depth digs into these fires is a (probably disappointing) percentage of the total.

So, all that said:

NFPA from 2011 claims that there are 5,200 gas station fires in the US in a typical year. That's based on calls to fire departments. Since this really is "fires called in by (or at) gas stations" the fire could be from a traffic accident in front of the station.

Slightly over half are vehicle fires. 28% of vehicle fires involve gasoline as the first thing ignited. Going through their math, that's about 888 fires per year for gasoline + vehicles. Of those, 159 do not start with passenger vehicles. There is no (obvious) data on how many vehicle fires started in service bays vs at the pumps.

We set about 100 gas stations on fire a week. We have roughly 3 fires a week that *might* involve something like an RV and gasoline in some way. Obviously the "not passenger vehicle" group covers a *lot* of things ....

There are roughly 160,000 gas stations in the US. We set 3% of them on fire each year (assuming no duplicates). We set them on fire a lot of ways, most of those ways don't involve gasoline at all....

Bob

AND...


I have extensive experience in the entering of data into the National Fire Incident Reporting System.

In the last years, in an attempt to streamline the reporting process, the available choices allowed in the reporting system have been reduced and combined severely.

An attempt to get more departments to fill out a report, but at the expense of details in these reports. It must be remembered that 70 percent of fire fighting is performed by volunteers.

The point is this: It maybe that half the reported "gas station" fires are simply a shop rag in the floor, or a cigarette in the trash can.

But, if an appliance or vehicle of any kind is involved, the type, make, and model is reported.

So appliance caused fires would stand out in the reporting system.

But it is difficult to find any.

Because there aren't many.


Truly understanding the properties and characteristics of LP gas and the safety features built into any fuel burning appliance allows one to utilize the features of our rigs to full benefit.


Assumptions, misunderstanding, and mis-information published the masses leads to fear and what-if reasoning.

And spoiled pastrami.



Regards,


JD

[halfloaf]

I wasn't speaking about if, and or therefore. I was speaking 1) about something I saw with my own little eyeballs, and 2) videos of actual human beings on fire at gas pumps, not in the street, now with LP, not with green eggs and ham, not...

But you go with your report about things that have zero to do with what I'm talking about. On the internet it is easy to distance oneself from actual human interaction, to hear of horror and turn away.

[halfloaf]

Going back to the original question, this is a risk analysis. It's not an 0% or a 100% proposition. "It won't catch on fire" is as wrong as "it will catch on fire." It may catch on fire at rest, it may catch on fire on the road - RV refrigerator fires happen. There are reasonable things you can do to reduce risk - have your gas lines inspected annually, consider replacing an older refrigerator, consider purchasing a heat monitor switch that turns off your refrigerator if it overheats (we've all seen the videos of burning refrigerators and pictures of the scorch marks on the walls behind old refrigerators - those devices make some sense), of course have a working smoke detector. I don't think anyone would say don't do those things.

Turning off the refrigerator while moving for many people, myself included, isn't on that list because that risk analysis includes spoiled food and a greater loss due to inconveniences, and because there is nothing about motion that increases the risk. If one were going to keep it off while moving, one might as well keep it off while stationary, and just not have a refrigerator at all.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by tjplus

Does anyone have any thoughts about keeping the refrigerator cold while traveling using propane.? We know that there are certain tunnels one cannot travel through carrying propane at all but putting that aside how many of you keep your refrigerator cold while in transit?

25 years RV'ing, with 6 different rigs including a Class A MH. We have had 4 AS's over the past 13 years, and we always travel with the propane on powering our refer. Never had a problem, as alluded to by, "halfloaf" or others??

I did have a Casita for a few years, and that refer was a "3-way" which worked off the trailer 12v plug to the TV and that was nice set up.

We have had all kinds of "other" minor issues, like hot water overflow valve going bad and leaking all over on our new 28', or water pump going on at night (we now shut switch), but we never have experienced any issues with running our refer on propane, while underway. When we use shore power staying overnight, it "usually" will automatically switche over to electric, but sometimes we need to "manually" switch it to electric or propane. Rare, but has happened. Good news is we can go several weeks with refer using the propane from a single tank before switching to second tank....that's how we operate so we know its time to fill a bottle when the other one goes empty.

But, "you" need to be comfortable on how you travel...as you can see, many of us have our "opinions" derived, right or wrong-ly, from our experiences.

[J. Morgan]

My fridge is all electric, but if it was gas, I would use it while traveling.

The risk associated with the practice is negligible.

Statistics are funny things, while traveling with the propane on may double the risk of an RV house fire, even a doubling of risk is slight.

Besides, if my fridge wants to burst into flames, I would prefer it to happen while towing instead of when I’m sleeping. #JustSayin

[switz]

We reduced our chances for a fridge propane fire to zero by replacing the fridge in both the 23D and the Classic with Vitrifrigo fridges that have a 12Vdc power Dan Foss freon based compressor. And 23D unit actually has more storage despite a smaller width. Both trailers have a solar system, so the lithium batteries are being charged whenever the sun is out or we are on shore power.

Our main problem with both Dometic fridges was poorly built construction techniques that resulted in broken doors and fittings with parts at exhorbant prices.