Possible cause to all Airstream Quailty Control Issues

[skyguyscott]

The OP began this thread with a link to a news article reporting on the legal suit brought by a former employee with credible allegations of wrongful termination and violations of labor regulations against Airstream.

The OP asks if there is a connection between this suit and the well-documented quality issues in various AS trailers.

If there is any connection, then it seems to me to me to be more clearly a poor reflection of management rather than on the hard-working guys and gals on the floor.

I would also question why we can't compare quality issues, Six Sigma, lean manufacturing practices used so successfully in the auto industry, indeed, in Ohio, in Shelby County, utilizing the same workforce, only in other factories right there.

[Albireo]

I do agree. Running a company in today's world is challenging. We just sold our company (which we started) of 300 to a large U.S. company of 3400 employees. They are a great company and we are blessed. Upper management has told us we are cut from the same cloth.

Don't even get me started on regulations here in Ontario. I certainly know of a few people who have sold companies who are tired of today's climate. It is amazing to me how anything gets done especially in large companies.

I know one thing for sure. Unless you have run your own company you can't even imagine the challenges of doing so. Just like I cannot understand the challenges of being a police officer. Or understand the challenges of war since I never saw combat when I was in the Canadian Infantry at 20.

Labor is not the same as it used to be. Today's generation wants the perks of a 20 year employee just for showing up. It is a different world.

All production items like boats always have a punch list. I am hoping when we pick up our Airstream next week the punch list is manageable an there are no leaks.

Until then....

[Ray Eklund]

Franklyfrank... thank you for taking the sheet off the corpse for identification. Many want to look the other direction, but your statements can be shown to be accurate.

I started a Gaming School. Went to Las Vegas, visited Gaming Schools, procured teaching manuals, learned them, bought a building, purchased equipment from Las Vegas gaming suppliers, etc.

This was several years before Missouri Riverboat gambling was passed in the Missouri Legislature.

I placed advertisements in the Kansas City Star newspaper for those interested in being trained as dealers, at no cost to them. They would be trained and then would receive compensation when competent to train players how to play Casino Table Games. We also did Las Vegas Nights for companies in the area.

These people showed up on time, three evenings a week. We dressed like Casino Dealers. I made professional name tags for each. We were a Casino, but chips were not redeemable for cash, they were credits for future play of paying players to practice their game. The local Police Chief would come in and practice his Blackjack game before going to Las Vegas... and get a look that everything was above board and not illegal. There were token operated slot machines for the wives to play.

Nancy worked five days a week and three hours on Wednesday, Friday and Saturdays at OUR ‘Gameroom Casino’.

Incentive was the key. There was a future in working hard as being an experienced Dealer and living in the Kansas City metro area. Everyone was cross trained in Blackjack, Roulette, Craps and Let it Ride Poker. Anyone of these people could run the shop when Nancy and I were out of town.

When employees have incentive, got part of the 'action'... they excelled. We were a team.

Once Riverboat Gambling was legal, we closed the Gaming School and everyone was able to pick the Casino they wanted to work.

What does this have to do with Airstream? You interview and hire those who have incentive and self starters. Incentives are important. Rank has its privileges and authority over others. The Amish in the area of Jackson Center are an asset for hands on talent. The larger the work force, the more slackers that manage to get into the assemble line. They chase away the talent. I have quit more jobs that most people. Because of the… slackers in corporate, government or labor jobs. Working for one’s self.. the best incentive of all… either do it right, or you are out of work.

No one is Too Big to Fail. Thor needs to be careful with Airstream, if it is indeed their cash cow. They build a shell of aluminum and fill it with someone else’s product. Quality control begins at the source of the product, not the end product installed into a well built shell of aluminum.

Every Tuesday and Thursday we have a sturdy, well made plastic bag and fill it with trash to be picked up. I do not judge my trash by the quality of the plastic bag.

Neither should Airstream be judged solely by their well made aluminum shell.

[ROBERT CROSS]

TETO...I beg to disagree the statements are...never mind.👎

Bob
🇺🇸

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

. . .
. . . we never . . .
. . .

To quote a famous person here:

“Nothing is so disappointing as unappreciated sarcasm.”

[Albireo]

Just wanted to add one more thing.

You can never win when you run a company. If you make a lot of money then you are greedy. If you are loosing money the company is poorly run. It is easy to criticize. Not easy to run a company. Lawsuits against companies are inevitable and may not have anything to do with bad management.

It seems, as I mentioned, some do not understand the challenges of running companies. I once had an employee perhaps 15 years ago tell me "you don't do anything you are the president - you just sit around and smoke cigars." If he only new. The company ultimately succeeds or fails because of management and of course your employees are really, really important. Companies succeed or fail because of their people.

Another time a lady was telling me (when we were financially helping a community action) it's just a business write off. When I questioned here further she did not understand that money is money and it has to come from somewhere. There may have been some tax benefit; however, whatever you do not get back in taxes is profit right off the bottom line. Your money going out the door.

My all time favorite is when a teacher friend of ours asked me why I seemed stressed and I told him there is a lot going on at work - he said - why would you be stressed you own the company? He meant it and was confused and he is really smart guy.

One, two or perhaps three bad decisions and you are out of business. Large companies like Thor are hard to steer. It is like crossing an ocean. If you are off one degree you are in a totally different spot to where you wanted to be.

The company who bought us was surprised how lean and nimble we were. There were no boards or investors just my wife and I and ultimately the decisions were up to me. Larger companies have a lot more structure. Things take longer to change and improve.

That being said I hope Airstream sorts whatever they need to sort. My gut tells me they are on the right track and I know nothing about them. Everyone has an opinion.

One last thing I have found in life: negative is easy - positive is hard work. Especially when you get a lemon. We will see how positive I am after next week!

[Steamguy]

Originally Posted by xrvr

You do not know what you are talking about concerning thor.

The perfect scenario was the big 3 back in the 70’s and 80’s before Toyota took over. The rest is in the history books.

You also are far off the mark concerning the American auto market. A swerve off-topic:

I was an Apprentice Mechanic back in the late 60's through the 70's while I went to school. The Japanese and the Germans were making high quality, fuel-efficient, and fun-to-drive autos; and Detroit just plain chose to ignore the competition. Rather than rising to meet the challenges, they instead created plodding, anemic, ugly, and lower-quality vehicles, often with a different body on an old chassis. Ford Maverick/Mercury Comet come to mind - a Falcon with a different body.

It took Detroit almost fifteen years of having their lunch money stolen to smarten up. I was there, working on the iron of the times. One particularly low point was the '74 Cadillac. All the engine accessories and even the radiator had to come out, just to replace a water pump. Seven shop hours.

You mention Toyota. Obviously you've never had to deal with a 60's Toyota. 35,000 miles before the engine seized. To Toyota's credit, within 5 years they were making cars that would last about 85,000 miles before the engine seized. In another 5 years, they were making cars that were going past 100,000 miles. Meanwhile Datsun consistently put over a hundred grand on their clocks, even from the early 60's.

To give credit where it's due, Toyota's Marketing Department really went to work to form a positive image in the mind of the consumer. You see the fruits of that, even today.

But look at where we are, today with the Americans: building quality, a degree of affordability, and actual fun into their products; even if it means sourcing production elsewhere.

And I think that Airstream is really paying attention to things - you see the Forum here swing positive and negative on some issues. When I stopped lurking and finally joined some 8 years ago, I wasn't sure they had a good handle on quality. I'm much more convinced of it now: although I will mention it in an aside that the Basecamp seems to be having some teething problems.

[Ray Eklund]

Albireo... very well done.

Many individuals in an office of 700 individuals do not grasp what an individual does operating their own one man or larger business. You explain it well. It is seven days, twenty four hours, 365 day a year job.

I replaced toilets, hung sheet rock and worked 'stick' at the Craps Table among other pleasant duties. Loved every minute of it.

Steamguy, as well.

I bought a Toyota pickup in 1971. Wore out U joints at 100K+. Sold it running fine at 160,000+ miles, other than the Missouri salt and humidity began to convert steel into a ferrous oxide. Sold immediately to a young guy taking body shop classes. Bought Toyota until 2016 when a F350 Ford captured my imagination... and it has proven to be a pleasant experience up to now.

[Jazgrass]

My Dealership, they were incredible, they made My Base Camp Nightmare ( I purchased first year) go away with a Bambi Sport, and a deal that showed incredible customer service and superior attention to my compensation.
Time and again we have done business with Foley RV in Gulfport , Ms . When they say we will keep after your deal until you are satisfied, and happy thats gospel. No matter what it takes. This Attitude started with my Salesperson Joseph and went all the way to the top of the Dealership with Mr. Bozant, and continues thru all and any service department needs... June and Blake.
Good luck and smooth highways .
jaz

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by hopmonster

Found this interesting article when searching about what is necessary for a Class Actions Lawsuit (more on that later).



https://www.sidneydailynews.com/news...ction-approved


I've heard production numbers for all AS models are increasing and can't imagine any employee who is not properly being compensated for their hard work to put appropriate amounts of care into their work.


Our Basecamp is at dealer allegedly getting a lot of work done on it. I do not have much hope for the fridge or leak issues.



At what point do we as consumers start looking for other remedies when Airstream and the dealers appear unwilling or unable to provide us with a product that is safe and functional?


I believe there are enough victims in the Basecamp owners group that a Class Action Lawsuit may be the direction that is needed to get Airstream to take this seriously.


Has anyone else done research into this?

Hi hopmonster,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issues you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.

You can also reach Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customer_support@airstream.com*

Thank you.*

[Troutboy]

Originally Posted by AirstreamInc

Hi hopmonster,*



We're very sorry to learn about the issues you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.



You can also reach Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customer_support@airstream.com*



Thank you.*

This is hilarious! No clue! Someone that probably works overseas and doesn’t know what an airstream is. Look for a problem and offer the customer service number......

Does anyone else find this funny???

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

This is hilarious! No clue! Someone that probably works overseas and doesn’t know what an airstream is. Look for a problem and offer the customer service number......

Does anyone else find this funny???

SAD 🙄

Bob
🇺🇸

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Steamguy

You also are far off the mark concerning the American auto market. A swerve off-topic:

I was an Apprentice Mechanic back in the late 60's through the 70's while I went to school. The Japanese and the Germans were making high quality, fuel-efficient, and fun-to-drive autos; and Detroit just plain chose to ignore the competition. Rather than rising to meet the challenges, they instead created plodding, anemic, ugly, and lower-quality vehicles, often with a different body on an old chassis. Ford Maverick/Mercury Comet come to mind - a Falcon with a different body.

It took Detroit almost fifteen years of having their lunch money stolen to smarten up. I was there, working on the iron of the times. One particularly low point was the '74 Cadillac. All the engine accessories and even the radiator had to come out, just to replace a water pump. Seven shop hours.

You mention Toyota. Obviously you've never had to deal with a 60's Toyota. 35,000 miles before the engine seized. To Toyota's credit, within 5 years they were making cars that would last about 85,000 miles before the engine seized. In another 5 years, they were making cars that were going past 100,000 miles. Meanwhile Datsun consistently put over a hundred grand on their clocks, even from the early 60's.

To give credit where it's due, Toyota's Marketing Department really went to work to form a positive image in the mind of the consumer. You see the fruits of that, even today.

But look at where we are, today with the Americans: building quality, a degree of affordability, and actual fun into their products; even if it means sourcing production elsewhere.

And I think that Airstream is really paying attention to things - you see the Forum here swing positive and negative on some issues. When I stopped lurking and finally joined some 8 years ago, I wasn't sure they had a good handle on quality. I'm much more convinced of it now: although I will mention it in an aside that the Basecamp seems to be having some teething problems.

Hi, the very popular Mustang was also just a Falcon. That didn't make any of these cars bad.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

This is hilarious! No clue! Someone that probably works overseas and doesn’t know what an airstream is. Look for a problem and offer the customer service number......

Does anyone else find this funny???

FYI the Senior Management Failures thread has been closed for further comments as of 9/19/18:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f542...as-182914.html

. . . even though the COO Justin Humphreys had been posting there, and seeking feedback from AS owners for a "Customer Quality Council." [See Post #220]


What?

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

This is hilarious! No clue! Someone that probably works overseas and doesn’t know what an airstream is. Look for a problem and offer the customer service number......

Does anyone else find this funny???

Hi Troutboy,

We work in the US and work directly with Airstream to assist in concerns and issues on this forum. If you have any questions, please feel free to send us a private message. Thank you.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

FYI the Senior Management Failures thread has been closed for further comments as of 9/19/18:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f542...as-182914.html

. . . even though the COO Justin Humphreys had been posting there, and seeking feedback from AS owners for a "Customer Quality Council." [See Post #220]
What?

Ahh yes... fond memories of the 'Town Hall" thread another example of...The kitchen is too hot...run! run!.😂

We must learn...JC can do no rong, and if we feel they have we must keep it too ourselves.
Remember the creed..."Make no changes, only promises"

Bob
🇺🇸

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

FYI the Senior Management Failures thread has been closed for further comments as of 9/19/18:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f542...as-182914.html

. . . even though the COO Justin Humphreys had been posting there, and seeking feedback from AS owners for a "Customer Quality Council." [See Post #220]


What?

As someone that frequently calls out off topic posts and asks that threads be shut down for wandering I'm surprised you are not happy that thread was closed.

The point of that thread was quality issues are the fault of Airstream Senior Management's failure to implement the Toyota Production System. It was started by someones whose only Airstream experience is what they have read online, and whose only Toyota Production System experience is what they read in a book and saw on a Toyota factory tour. Without someone that actually knew what he/she was talking about, not surprising that thread quickly wandered into a 25+ page gripe-fest. Too bad, since actual Airstream Management was participating, but may have decided it was not in their best interest to continue.

I would not fret though, seems like a new one starts as soon as the old one gets shut down. Hence, this thread. Soon too it will devolve into "Airstream is too worried about profits to supply a mattress that's more firm (or soft, or medium or whatever someone happens to like). So if you look at this as a continuation of that thread it's like it never went away!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

As someone that frequently calls out off topic posts and asks that threads be shut down for wandering I'm surprised you are not happy that thread was closed.

Example please...😳

What...I don't recall anyone stating that a 'thread' be shut down. Maybe a post be better served in another thread but shut down?
We all wander...like pets on a 'What did you get
for your trailer' thread. 😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by hopmonster

So my intent in posting this soecifically in the Basecamp forum was to assist other BC owners who have had epidemic issues. Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I do not recall such problems across other AS models. The Basecamp suffers from some on going issues with fridge performance, or lack there of and water infiltration on such a level that many owners have given up after multiple dealer trips to address the problems. Some have removed fridges or rigged gutters to try and keep water from destroying their investment. I’ve also read of several instance where the glass panels have flown off while in transit. These issues have persisted since the redesign, so that should have afforded ample opportunity to address the faults.

I’m certain this is a combination of design flaws and QC and I’m also certain that such performance is not acceptable from ANY company. Even treasured brands like Airtsream. I will allow the dealer to address these issues on my unit but at some point one must say “enough is enough”

Last Monday we delivered our 2017 30' Classic to Jackson Center to have a damaged lower side panel replaced and a small laundry list of minor warranty issues. Our warranty is running out this October so the timing was good. While there, we seen at least 4 Base Camps and of all things a Nest. I did not get a chance to talk to anyone of their owners what their issues were but it did get my attention. On balance there were at least that many Classics and an assortment of different sizes and models. Some warranty work a surprising number of modifications and upgrades.

After having bought 3 different Airstreams I learned one thing, they all come with issues and it is frustrating to work your way through them.
I learned quickly with the first trailer that my local dealer was essentially useless beyond very minor issues, so being only 250 miles from JC I have been taking our trailers there for all substantial repairs.
In every instance I was completely satisfied with the work and the general attitude of the staff. I have to believe that the Service Center is a reflection of the management of Airstream and the problems with the Base Camp will be resolved. If they fail to adequately respond the market place will solve it for them.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Jazgrass

My Dealership, they were incredible, they made My Base Camp Nightmare ( I purchased first year) go away with a Bambi Sport, and a deal that showed incredible customer service and superior attention to my compensation.
Time and again we have done business with Foley RV in Gulfport , Ms . When they say we will keep after your deal until you are satisfied, and happy thats gospel. No matter what it takes. This Attitude started with my Salesperson Joseph and went all the way to the top of the Dealership with Mr. Bozant, and continues thru all and any service department needs... June and Blake.
Good luck and smooth highways .
jaz

We bought our second Airstream at Foley and had the same positive experience. I bet it has something to do with the fact that the family has been in the car business for a long time before getting into selling Airstreams.