Rotten floor 2006 28'

[yogijames]

I have a rotten floor in my 2006 International 28' and have heard about others with the same problem. Leaking around the the rear moulding at the storage/bumper area. I went to Jackson Center, Ohio and saw other Airstreams in the shop having the floor completelt replaced. How many other people have issues with rotten floors and why don't they use Pressure treated wood to prevent these common occurrences?

[Belegedhel]

Rotting floors are a common problem in Airstreams (and other brands as well). I am sometimes surprised at how prone relatively new models are to rot, but they all have a chance to leak from any of the 1000's of rivets, hundreds of seams, and many windows, doors, and vents. It's the leaks that wreck your floor, so constant vigilance is required to recognize the leaks and to correct them before damage occurs.

Pressure treated plywood is not the answer. The chemicals used in the treating process are nasty indeed, and usually include arsenic in some form. So not only do you not want to spend a lot of quality time exposing yourself to absorbing these chemicals, but they tend to react really negatively with the aluminum, resulting in corrosion.

There are other ways to prevent/slow rot from leaks, though. Many of the folks doing floor repairs/replacements will treat the edges (especially the end-grain) and perimeter of the wood with several coats of poly or penetrating epoxy to make their floors more robust in the presence of water. Most also rebuild and seal the interface between the shell and chassis in the rear to keep the water from being channeled right into the rear sub-floor.

Why doesn't Aistream do things like this in the first place? I suppose it is because every extra step adds time and cost, and the cost of these trailers is already sky-high. I would also assume that They don't accept rotted floors in 8 year old trailers as an indication of their manufacturing/design quality. There are lots of threads on these Forums about Airstream build quality (and about rotted floors). You are not alone.

Good luck with the repair.

[AnnArborBob]

Based on what I've seen at the factory tour, Airstream has been sealing the end grain of the plywood floors for the past several years.

You should use the search function to look for other "rotten floor" threads in the forum to see what you can learn.

As I recall from my casual and totally unscientific observation of this forum over the past several years, there may have been a "perfect storm" of manufacturing and design issues that caused a rash of rotten floors in Airstreams of a similar vintage as yours.

[dbj216]

Well, the good news is your subfloor can be repaired. Several handy Airstreams have described the steps they took getting the subfloor repaired. It's a big job, but it can be, and should be done. Dealers and the factory can do it too, but expect to pay handsomely for the labor hours. And the job is mostly labor.

A moisture meter will help detect leaks so you can react before your foot breaks through the rotted floor.

David

[overlander63]

The parts generally would be a few hundred dollars at most. The labor, however, would be the killer. If it takes a week's work to take everything apart, replace the floor, and put it back together, that is 40 hours times the hourly rate. $100/hr is a low average.

[robert claus]

Thor purchased the Livin Lite line of trailers last year. Hopefully, the aluminum composite floors used in this line will migrate to Airstream. With over 3.5 billion in sales last year, and 175 mil in net income, it's just a matter of will. I would not consider buying a new Airstream until this is done, as I consider the wood floors to be an anachronism.

[dbj216]

By the way, welcome yogijames! I just noticed you are pretty new to the Air Forums, and maybe the Airstream community. I'm always glad to have another person to give bad advice too! But it's free.

I'd like to agree with Robert. A more expensive floor system that resists water and maybe lighter weight would be a big selling point for Airstream. All Airstreams leak or are gonna leak so having a modern water resistant subfloor makes sense. It would add years to the expected life of an Airstream.

David

[sloprince]

I've actually done a patch repair in some rotten areas. It wasn't easy but certainly easier than a complete floor repair. Text me and I'll send pictures and details.
Gus Thomasson

[BoldAdventure]

If you think about the only thing that can really go bad in the Airstream and rot are the floors. And probably better the floor than have that water build up and cause greater damage from everything else that can soak up the water, along with mold and mildew.

That's my main thought about a floor that doesn't rot. Where will the water go if I have a leak, and how will I know I have a leak.

The rear bumper leak is the MOST NOTORIOUS for going un-noticed for a long time.

[DeltaRon]

Seems like I read on one of the forums about replacing the floor with a product called Coosa Board (Coosa Mfg.). My new 28 has not started in to production yet and am thinking about exploring that possibility. Any advise, Gang?

[DeltaRon]

coosacomposits.com is the website

[jverduzco]

I also have a 28 ft Intl with rotten floor in 2 soft spots, front and back and I feel this is quite common based on my research. I am heading to Jackson Center as we speak to get repairs done. I know the hourly labor rate is $125. Any suggestions to keep my costs down in the repairs? Any suggestions in getting Airstream to admit the flaws in the design and giving me a break on cost to repair. I just spoke to my buddy with a 2006 Safari - same exact floor rot in same places. I also read this website http://www.thesilversnail.com/18_jac...tml#conclusion claiming they took it to the top of the Airstream food chain and got a trade in deal. These AS are way too expensive to have a floor rot issue that could not have been prevented.

[dbj216]

Jackson Center Service will do a great job repairing your damaged floor. Maybe you could save their techs some time by having the furniture removed so they don't have to bother with that. It is my view that Jackson Center might be less expensive than other shops because they are so experienced at it and know exactly what to do.

Welcome to Air Forums. Folks here have had many discussions on how Airstream should improve their design. Folks who rebuild their vintage Airstreams often select a more robust subfloor material and certainly take extra time and expense making the subfloor as waterproof as possible. I believe Airstream has made good progress through the years. Your 07 is better built than my 86. We all get disappointed when defects are found. What was dramatic to me was the RV show I went to last winter. After walking through many "some other brands" (SOBs), and then visiting the Airstream display last, I was floored with how much better built the Airstream was in comparison. It is just a different animal from all the rest in my view.

I see you live in beautiful Florida where there is lots of rain. The lush southeast USA exposes our Airstreams to more moisture than some other climates, like Colorado. It is vital that we owners check for moisture around the perimeter of the inside walls to the floor regularly. A moisture detector isn't that expensive. Mine cost $40 and I use it regularly. I'm on my hands and knees probing the floor. It isn't the most dignified position, like a plumber under a kitchen sink.

You can plead your case with the Airstream service personnel. They will sympathize with you and may adjust accordingly. But the cause of the floor rot problem is a rain water leak that wasn't addressed. We gotta keep our trailers properly maintained.

The trouble with our Airstreams is a rain water leak that runs down between the walls, or in from the infamous rear bumper to body intersection. The subfloor soaks it up and the rot begins. At least your 07 likely has a plywood floor where my 86 has OSB. OSB turns to oatmeal when it gets moisture rotten. I had a leak at an awning bracket, and I had a bad leak at a rear tail light gasket. Both caused some rot, and both have been repaired.

Have fun at Jackson Center. I expect they will treat you well.

David

[Foiled Again]

03 thru 06 seems to have been the worst years - it has improved some since then. The really big culprit back then was failure to seal around the bumper trim. Water just funneled in there - and ditto in the front though there wasn't a bumper to hold tons of water at that seam.

Getting them to take care of it at little or no charge 10 years later simply isn't going to happen IMHO.

I do agree that they'll do the job right, and you probably can insist that they throw in a free seal test - put air pressure inside and spray soapy water outside to look for bubbles.

IMHO the real cures would include:

• having little drain or weep holes for water that does get between the skins to drain to the ground.
• Getting rid of fiberglass or wool in the belly pan which holds water against the plywood (Later ones use bubble foil insulation, but it should still have small perfs to allow draining of fluid.
• Perfs in the belly pan (take an ice pick and make tiny holes from the inside out so that water can DRIP out.
• go with a non-wood floor - lots of boat composits or even aluminum

If you're paying someone to do the work for you, why not see what it would take to have it done with some kind of non-rotting material? (you could always buy it and have it drop shipped to the factory).

The idea that you're never going to get water between the skins - or spill it inside for that matter - is just foolish. I came within 1/4 inch of overflowing my shower by opening the black drain instead of the gray tank's drain. D'uh.

You can seal everything perfectly and get a leak in 2 weeks. The body of the trailer will flex - and a pothole will "flex" it rather violently. Your post reminds me that it's probably been 2 months since I went around the perimeter of my floor with a moisture meter. Lord I can still "git down" ... but "gitten' back up" takes a bit more effort.

Paula

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by DeltaRon

Seems like I read on one of the forums about replacing the floor with a product called Coosa Board (Coosa Mfg.). My new 28 has not started in to production yet and am thinking about exploring that possibility. Any advise, Gang?

Ah, Ha I have a convert.

You are indeed a very smart man to protect your very expensive investment. Coosa is 40-45% lighter than plywood, will not rot , mildew, support fungus growth or absorb water. I'm so glad I used it in my subfloor replacement.

Hopefully the factory will acquiesce to your DEMAND that Coosa be used, but be prepared to deliver the boards to the factory yourself and fight for its use. I know I would. You will also get back three fold in your cost in resale with a Coosa subfloor as everyone will know it doesn't rot and the floor will be in great shape.

BTW If you or Airstream is concerned with strength I used Bluewater 20 not 26 (which is stronger) and had a 4'x 5" off cut. I placed the 4'x 5" off cut inbetween two short sawhorses and stood in the middle; I'm 6'3" 255 lbs, it bent but supported my weight..........then I started bouncing......it took six to seven progressively harder bounces before the Coosa cracked; didn't break, but cracked. That's how strong this stuff is.

Cheers
Tony

[roryhale]

I recently purchased a very mildewy 1976 31 ft Sovereign. At this point I have gutted it down to the interior skins and a very rotten subfloor.

It seems that the major design flaw is that the subfloor extends beyond the interior wall allowing any water trickling down between the skins to land on and soak across the subfloor.

My idea is to replace the subfloor but allow a 1/2 inch gap between the edge of the subfloor and interior skin, to prevent wicking and allow water to go straight down to the bellypan. I plan to use a thicker plywood and finish with pine flooring and trim with quarter round. I agree with Foiled Again that puncturing a few holes in the bellypan would also just allow this water to leave.

I haven't removed my subfloor yet, but from reading I understand it is attached both with elevator bolts and screwed to a lip on the exterior shell.

My question is: If I don't connect the subfloor to the lip of the exterior shell does this pose a serious threat to the structural integrity of the trailer?

Side note: For all intents and purposes my trailer will be mostly stationary, not putting a lot of miles on it, so perhaps if this isn't much of a concern I could get away with leaving the proposed gap between the subfloor and interior skin?

Rory

[dbj216]

Hello roryhale, Your top of the line 76 Sovereign has a lot of subfloor to rot compared to the smaller trailers. The mid seventies longer trailers seem to experience floor rot and frame rust more than average.

You are correct that rainwater can leak between the exterior and interior skins and soak the subfloor causing the rot. We owners are often oblivious to this leaking because we aren't standing in puddles. Probing with a moisture detector helps alert us to an exterior skin rainwater leak.

I've learned in these forums that some rebuilders provide "drains" in the C channel that can help let rainwater water out. And epoxy sealing the ends of the subfloor also helps prolong life.

I don't know your plan of attack on this big vintage Airstream. Many folks plan on completing the "full monty" rebuild which includes lifting the body from the frame. This ton of work is probably the best course of action. Easy for me to say, but I enjoy working on these vintage Airstreams. It's a 2000 hour and $15,000 project start to finish, but you will have a fine vintage Airstream when done.

So maybe you will pull the bottom course of interior skins so you can have a good look at the "C" channel. As you know, the Airstream is built like a very old aircraft. It is "semi-monocoque" construction where the frame is light, the light subfloor holds the frame rigid, and the aluminum body holds the frame up. You gotta attach the subfloor very well to the frame, and attach the body very well to the subfloor. Leaving the subfloor short of the C channel would compromise the strength of the trailer significantly.

You need to drop the belly pan and all the trash insulation (yuck) so you can inspect the frame. Old long trailers are subject to rear end separation due to the rear frame cross member rusting away. The strength of the trailer is compromised and sometimes the frame rails bend or buckle from the axle mounts to the rear bumper. Now is the time to make this repair if your trailer needs it. This is a good example of why the frame, subfloor, and body need to be well attached to each other so they can hold each other together.

There are several good threads about enthusiasts refurbishing their Sovereigns. I especially like "little girl" by Mino. Their trailer is a 71 if memory serves. You'll find it in the Airstream Knowledge Base section toward the bottom of the Forums page, then click on Sovereign, and finally 71 year range. It's a good thread.

My views are just like any other yay-hoo on the internet. Your plan to make your trailer a "park model" where routine towing is not planned will change your approach. For example, you may not need new axles and brakes right away. But a well documented, complete rehab to the "bones" of your trailer will certainly add value no matter the intended use.

David

[Wabbiteer]

Howdy... A while back I installed blocks of solid aluminum bar as placeholder for the NEW plywood floor across the leak-prone back of my '73 27'. This could've been done with one long piece instead of the three pieces I used, just grabbed what was handy. Between the metal-to-metal clamping and the 3m 5200 sealant that is used on blue-water boat hulls, I can report all is well & dry still, but I haven't dragged the back frame on pavement anywhere either... Thread & post here: http://tinyurl.com/zlkf3k2

[Chae]

I looked into this. I got a quote on their 4x8 panels. They have two varieties,Bluewater and Nautical. The panels come in a variety of densities and thickness. Bluewater 26 1" 4 x8 - $249.60/sh, Nautical 24 1" 4 x 8 - 238.05/sh. AThe salesman recommended Bluewater 20# (heavy fiber reinforcement/ lower weight/cost) 1" 4 x 8 - 218.04/sh.

I have a 29' Ambassador, of which the actual length is 26 or 27' (haven't measured it yet) so I'm thinking I need at least 7 panels. Not cheap, obviously but it should be completely water-impervious.

I do see two issues. First is whether the panels would be stable over the frame span. If the subfloor flexes or buckles, it would be very nasty. Second is thickness. 1" is the minimum thickness. I'm thinking the original subfloor is 3/4? Would that make a difference? I don't know. I literally just got the AS and will be gutting it out this weekend.

I am reserving shell-off reno until I gut and remove a portion of the subfloor (yup, rear by the window is completely rotted out) to check on the frame. If I do a complete shell-off, then a complete subfloor replacement would be very tempting. But at $1500-1800? I don't know...

[Chae]

Wabbiteer, I went through the linked thread. Impressive work. I'm just starting my work and expect to gut it completely as you have. I'm sort of obsessed with the subfloor right now because I do have water damage, and it is a vulnerable area, and because I have one shot at this as I reno the AS. So it's important to get this right.

I especially like the aluminum bar idea. I am considering Coosa composite panel but cost is a huge consideration. I had an idea this morning in the vein of that aluminum bar however. A Trex or similar composite decking might work in place of the bar. A line of countersunk weep holes along the length of the decking could help water that came through just pass to the underbelly. I plan on using vinyl flooring on top. It's click-on, "premium" vinyl that goes on like laminate that's supposed to be waterproof.

Demo starts today so the decision on the subfloor is a bit off in the future.