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Old 02-07-2008, 12:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
except 4 the undisclosed reasons WHY we are seeing rear door models REPLACE many/most of the current front door layouts...
Are you seeing a conspiracy or might it be that many prefer the FB layout?
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping
Are you seeing a conspiracy or might it be that many prefer the FB layout?
hi gc'...

the issue in my view isn't the front bed so much...

as the rear door placement associated with these units...

and the crappy side window fire exit utilized near the bed.

my suspicion is that a/s hastily responded to other warranty work/design repair issues...

related to the inadequate frame strength and thinner skin materials..

-like the front end separation noted in other threads

-and the front skin CRACKING noted in some models (these cracks have been found in mulitple locations)

-and the many complaints about door alignment, closing and replacement...

that longer front door models have developed in the last 3-5 years...

a/s has spent a boat load of warranty costs and bottom line profits repairing units the last 3-4 years.

do you recall the first batch of new REAR DOOR models...

the door swung open INTO the awning arm...

a perfect example of 'draw it up, sell it, and figure it out after the fact'...

since then we've seen 25s, 27s, and now 30s come on the market with rear doors ONLY...

it sure isn't because campgrounds are designed better for rear doors...

that open into fire pits and behind the patio area and directly into the stinky slinky of your neighbor......

so i think there has been equally little attention directed toward the placement of wiring, lpgas systems and fire exit plans...

folks have been asking for new designs, different interiors, better floor plans and so on...

but not many have been crying for rear doors (the rear door args from long ago had a different floor plan)

take the 27 fb/rear door classic for example...

FLIP it over 180 degees (L sofa/lounge/dinette/door front and bed rear) and the safety issues GREATLY improve...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:26 AM   #17
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2Air thanks for bringing these issues to our attention. I think another fire extinguisher and a modification of some durable housing around the wires and perhaps a notch for clearance would be beneficial. Have you done something of the kind to your Airstream now? And I'm curious...were you executing a fire drill when you took a dive out the window?

I am very glad you were able to remedy that situation, I am sure many would not have been able to have stopped the fire as you did.

And I just remembered that our 2007 27' originally had the gasket spleen loop to pull out the screen for the fire exit on the front window, which of course would not open if the window rock guard was not opened before hand. And yet the fire exit sticker was mounted on the side window but there was no loop to remove the screen on that window. I think that was a change from the 2006 models that had that ill planned provision for fire escape?
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:30 AM   #18
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What a horrifying experience. I'm glad it turned out ok.

At least you knew what to do....being a novice to RVing I can't imagine how I would have reacted.

I wondered about the tank cover pinching the wires below. There should be a mouse hole notch to allow the wires to move freely.
What year is your trailer? Are the wires on a 2008 set up the same as yours? (ungrounded and "Hot"?)
How would you retrofit the problem. Did the rubber around the wire just wear out due to the friction from the cover? Should I protect the wires with some sort of "cover"?
"disconnected the 12 system"? what did you do?

.....so much to learn
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested
...were you executing a fire drill when you took a dive out the window?...
yes, i did in fact 'practice' this side window exit...

and trust me the lower window frame isn't soft on the private parts....

i placed a step stool outside under the window to ease the landing...

without it i would have needed to dive face first or push a foot into the outer trailer skin...

a rear exit off the bed is relatively easy...

the bed is at a near perfect height for the window and the bumper is right there to step onto...

yes, i've practiced THAT one too
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:53 AM   #20
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2Air,

You are on the money with the emergency exits. Being the son of a Fireman and having had "Always know your way out." drilled into my head I have looked at the emergency escapes in every trailer I've been in. They all are lacking. We raise our front "sunglasses" as it'd be easier to open the window and bust out the front window screen to escape through that larger and easier to get to window than try the small high up designated emergency exit.

I'd also add that they always seem to put the extinguisher near the door which is far away from the bed in larger models. If you need an extinguisher at night you need it next to your bed.

Rarely being in campgrounds I've never been bothered by my nieghbors plumbing. I'm afraid I might now though.
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:54 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millvalleyca
...being a novice to RVing I can't imagine how I would have reacted...
i'm not sure how i reacted is the best or safest approach, which might just be to run like h3ll!...

Quote:
Originally Posted by millvalleyca
are the wires on a 2008 set up the same as yours? (ungrounded and "Hot"?)how would you retrofit the problem...
yes i think they are. an electrical person will have to explain why the single wire running to the jack is hot, or how best to address this issue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by millvalleyca
...Did the rubber around the wire just wear out due to the friction from the cover? Should I protect the wires with some sort of "cover"?
yes that's what will happen and did. cutting a notch in the cover might help. i opted to PAD the wire (which i spliced/repaired)

and will have it MOVED eventually to a better spot...

notice the wiring for the break away/brake pin is also in that location, and subject to friction/wear...

Quote:
Originally Posted by millvalleyca
"disconnected the 12 system"? what did you do?...
there is a 'disconnect' for the 12v under the sofa.

of course is only disconnects the 12 v appliances INSIDE from the battery, NOT the jack wire which caused the fire...

so again, my reaction may not have been the best, it's just what i did.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:06 AM   #22
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The wiring short that you described is a perfect example of why the fuse for the jack wire needs to be at the battery, not exclusively at the jack. When I purchsed it, My bambi had evidence of such a short in the battery box and a large burn mark on the top of one of the batteries from the jack wiring. I can only conclude the the wire jacket was frayed and caused an unfused dead short where the wiring passed thru the box.

You make some very valid points regarding the distance to the rear door but I'm not overly concerned as long as other safety precautions have been taken, like having extra fire extinguishers and a sound and practiced exit strategy.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goin camping
...We raise our front "sunglasses" as it'd be easier to open the window and bust out the front window screen to escape through that larger and easier to get to window than try the small high up designated emergency exit...
hi gc...

i agree with this general notion except for the placement of the lp tanks/cover/flag polls and other stuff...

obstructing the front center window...

i tried going out that one too... it wasn't pretty.

as for a little on the fire exits criteria, from the NFPA standards listed above...

here are some relevant sections...

section 6.2 recreational vehicle exit facilities.

6.2.1.1. recreational vehicles shall have a minimum of 2 exits located remote from each other
and so arranged as to provide a means of unobstructed travel to the outside of the vehicle

6.2.1.2. each bedroom or area designed for sleeping shall have at least two unobstructed paths to exit.

6.2.3 access to alternate exits.

6.2.3.1. the path leading to an alternate exit...shall be not less than 13 inches wide at the narrowest point....

6.2.3.2 the supporting surface shall be not more than 3 feet below the bottom of the alternate exit
and shall be capable of supporting a weight of 300 lbs.


the bolding is mine.

-are the side exit windows lower than 3 feet high? i don't think so, and will measure them sometime.

-is the perimeter around an island queen bed 13 inches?

maybe, but there is NO WAY it is 13 inches on the new 30ft front bed/rear door classic, with a KING size mattress...

now someone define 'unobstructed' as it relates to some of these exit points...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:36 AM   #24
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Tongue jack wires.

Hi, every time I move my propane tank cover I watch out for the jack wires; Not a great way to place them. I took a piece of clear plastic tubeing [1/4" ID] and slit it down one side and slipped it over the bottom lip of my propane cover, in the front, the width of the coupler/ frame. I may relocate the jack wires, somehow, to not run under the tank cover.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:48 AM   #25
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Propane Tanks.

Hi, I didn't like the way my propane tanks were mounted; One wing nut was trying to hold the tanks firmly in place and hold the cover in place at the same time. [double duty] I noticed my tanks were loose and wobbled so I made some minor changes. These pictures will be easier than me trying to explain what I did. Much nicer now.
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:12 AM   #26
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great idea robert!

your modification also means the tanks can be VERY securely fixed,

while the cover is just snug, not overly tight.

it might be useful to shorten the tank lip/retention section (it has 3 notches)...

so it is less likely to contact the brass tank valve bits...

also i'm not in favor of LOCKS on the tank cover (inside or out)...

had mine been locked down, i might not have been able to loosen it in time...

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-07-2008, 06:03 AM   #27
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To answer a couple of questions that were raised, a battery usually doesn't just catch fire, it explodes from hydrogen gas that has accumulated in it and the battery compartment. Once the fuel runs out (pretty fast) that's it. A secondary fire can start from the explosion and flames igniting the wiring insulation, and other bits in that area.
More likely is a fire from overheated or shorted wires that aren't properly protected (fuses/circuit breakers). This is what 2air experienced with his tank cover.
The only "codes" are for when a structure intended for permanent location, and trailers and moho's aren't permanent. Instead, there are vehicle standards that are either voluntary or government regulated. Placement and type of many items, even safety items, are voluntary. Airstream placed a small fire extinguisher by the main entry door in our trailer, it isn't enough to put out a bad case of heartburn, much less any real conflagration. I have two additional extinguishers, 5 pounders, one in the living room, the other in the bedroom.
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Old 02-07-2008, 06:17 AM   #28
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Great idea about the extra extinguishers. I think the location by the door is convenient, but not practical. I am going to get one for the bedroom in mine as well.

Which type did you choose for that area?
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