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Old 09-30-2010, 02:15 PM   #1065
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Lipets has made the statement that only a few of the individuals who sent their contributions have asked for their money back, as if that is an argument for holding it.

I, for one, do not understand why any of us should have to ask. These few (these happy few, to steal a turn of phrase) ended the process on their own authority. However the authority they exercised was not that which was given, but was seized. And then they apparently issued self-justified statements that are just not supported by anything other than their sayso. As opposed to the LeoG, who has been very
specific with timelines and correspondence. His specifics would be very easy to disprove - if they are not true. But no such evidence has appeared.

If there was any honor to them, the checks would have been long in the mail. As far as any possibility in restarting anything - there is no chance that anyone would send any further money. That well is poisoned.

I can understand that there are some individuals who feel no shame or responsibility in this. There are always that sort among us. However I do not understand how an entire unit (MetroNY) and its officers can justify holding onto funds in this manner. Surely there are adults in charge someplace up there.

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Old 09-30-2010, 03:22 PM   #1066
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I'm sorry, Wam, but you're making about as much sense to me as 2air. I just don't follow your post.

Gene makes some good points. And there are good reasons to pay for top drawer legal advice rather than rely on poseurs. Better-than-average lawyers get better-than-average results... on average. Not only are they good at managing negotiations, they are good at managing clients. As evidenced by this thread, clients are often the worst enemy of their own litigation. A really good attorney could have taken the raw materials provided by the disaffected members and, I believe, negotiated a settlement far more satisfactory than a seat on a committee.

This amateurism is a thread that continues right through holding the money. A thousand bucks? A couple g's? That's not even coffee money for a real litigator. Holding onto the money is stupid on so many levels. It's not enough money to even begin a real lawsuit so it's worthless as a threat. Holding on to the money is alienating not only past supporters but severely diminishing the chance of getting any new financial backers. The Metro NY unit isn't making any new friends. Even if the money is all eventually returned, the degree of backside toasting created by the delay obviates any potential restoration of goodwill.

We all make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes cost money. You can talk all day about "honor" and "right" but it's not going to get you one nickel back any sooner.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:29 PM   #1067
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At this point, I wouldn't join the WBCCI if memberships were free. I also have no desire (secret or otherwise) to have anything to do with actually trying to run the Byam traveling circus and medicine show.
For what it's worth, we were at a rally a weekend or two ago, and the lawsuit and other WBCCI drama wasn't mentioned once, and we had a GREAT time. We camp alone too, but camping with friends is also fun.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:26 AM   #1068
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Leo,

I just have to ask...

Lets say every dollar is refunded, everybody goes on their own, and the case is closed. What comes next??? What will be the next step for you in your reinstatement? Do you want reinstatement? Are you planning to start a new court case? What is the desired outcome of all of this once all funds have been returned?

I ask because, besides the fact that funds have been donated for a legal action that never took place. If all is resolved with that issue, what will be the next step for you??? What is the outcome you want to see?
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:00 AM   #1069
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I caution those considering a mass e mailing campaign at the direction of a third party.

As one who has already received a unsupportable Cease and Desist notice from the WBCCI Lawyer directed at the misuse of the members e mail address I have some knowledge in this area. Yes members can e mail other members without consequences. However a consorted effort resulting in a mass effort could fall under Federal Communications Harassment Regulations.

Leo has asked for others to embark on this effort because he has already received his Cease and Desist notice, for such an effort. In his case as a none member he is not protected and thus can't risk doing it again.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:13 AM   #1070
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How about making a daily request for your refund. Send it to the entire board, but copy in the entire unit membership. Post it here online, daily until you get your money back, in full? Heck, copy in the EC7, the R12...

I could see where a daily request could pay off for for everyone involved. They've got your money -- go get it back...

Give it a try for the next 100 days. Let's see how you (and others) fare...
Harassing people--including those who don't have anything to do with the money--doesn't accomplish anything except convincing people you're acting like a jerk.

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Used car dealers, landlords, you got anything else that fits into this category? Oh yeah, yeah, how about that friend you loaned money too? Yeah, that's scraping the barrel, isn't it? Isn't that the worst?

How is this any different?
First, caveat donator. Second, cars are routinely sold via contracts. Apartments are rented via lease agreements. There is a reason intelligent adults do business via contracts, leases and other written agreements. Things can and do go wrong. You hand money to a friend (or a stranger) based on some loose verbal understanding, good luck getting your jingle back if things go south.

You want to bash Metro NY for not refunding the money, fine. But every attack is also a statement that the people who gave the money did so foolishly... and in direct contradiction to some very sound advice from people like Gene.

I've made this point before and will make it again. This thread does not cast a flattering light on anyone. The more folks fuss, fume, fret and froth over what happened, the more it seems the people complaining the most are simply never going to be happy.
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Old 10-01-2010, 11:31 AM   #1071
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Ok, maybe there wasn't a settlement or a negotiation. One side says yes, one side says no.

It's just a coincidence that the spokesperson and prime promoter for a lawsuit ends up on a WBCCI committee at the same time he withdraws the threat of a lawsuit for the time being. The stars must have been aligned and the moon was in Aquarius that day because on any other day that looks like a deal was struck.

Do the WBCCI bosses feel their honor is compromised if they admit to negotiations? If so, pretty fragile honor and weak egos.

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Old 10-01-2010, 11:43 AM   #1072
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Of course a deal was struck. The only question is who started the conversations that resulted in the final agreement. But who cares? The deal is done. So sue in small claims court.

Sending harrassing emails is just following yet another Pied Piper into what could turn out to be a legal jungle. The last guy you listened to cost you $. This one could cost you all much more.

John
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:51 AM   #1073
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Can you draw any conclusions from this one Gene?

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No.

All that has happened this year has been brewing for years and years. Knowing all the actors is beyond me. Some things appear clear, much is obscure and Byzantine. Craziness becomes the norm. In a dysfunctional political system, this is what happens.

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Old 10-06-2010, 07:48 AM   #1074
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Thumbs down

No one did or will until Feb 1st.

Now, will you release all the clubs historical property that your holding?

Or will you continue to hold club property after Metro NY demanded the return of same saying you will not return the documents unless the contributors are refunded?



Ps: Only 3 requests





.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:30 AM   #1075
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Only 3 direct requests, that's a fact.

A request on a forum is not a legitimate request.

But such requests are a moot point, the date has been stated along with the fact that it will be pro rated against expenses.
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:41 AM   #1076
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Leo,

If you are correct and everything you have is "yours" from work that you have done/documented and not Metro NY, you are a fool if you give up one 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper after the bus they drove over you. Let the powers contiune and if they decide to go forward with a lawsuit at some point, they can try to document everything (will be even tougher with SaveWally gone and the WBCCI forum in the hands of "The Man") that you have in the past. Other things like websites, etc... if their in your name, their yours unless Metro NY paid you to create and even then could be questions.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:26 AM   #1077
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Leo,

Got an idea.

Hold onto what you have until the Metro NY Unit say's they're going to file a lawsuit against you, then work with the President of the Unit offline until you get placed on one of the Metro NY Units commitees!

Then both of you at that point release statements 180 degrees from each other to the point that no one really knows what happened.

It's worked in the past!
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:56 AM   #1078
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Just curious,
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Just Curious an interesting choose of words.

I am "just curious" if you ever had any intent other than to antagonize anyone that you could just for the fun of it.

As one that originally pledged a significant amount towards Defendwally and as one who agreed to supply our lawyer with foundation material necessary to file, you have never met either obligation. If you want to blame someone for the failure of the suit going forward you need go no further than your mirror.

You have lost you steam against the IBT. You have deserted, by your lack of action, those that were in good faith attempting to help you. Once you were expelled you withheld the administration information to Metro NY's web site necessary for them to manage the site. Now you want to hold hostage the units archival information and personnel photographs of the members, that you were entrusted to you to compile into a conical, for the benefit of individuals you did not even have the guts to support financially or commitment wise yourself.

In all you comments you have forgotten to mention that you were one of the 5 individuals that sat with the lawyer and that when we departed there was clear direction that hinged on your efforts that would have allowed the filing before the International. Also you forget to mention that meeting took place 1 month before any contact from anyone related to or representing the Leadership. Had you met your obligations there never would have been the need to entertains any other avenue of action.
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