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Old 01-09-2010, 12:35 PM   #519
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Renegade units, sign me up! It would be a hoot to travel to alternates in the same rally vacinities in protest and make a splashy appearance at the business meetings! Kind of like anti-whaling sailing. Or would that be sailing whaling?
Oh, a la the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society? I'm kind of big on this kind of "Hayduke-lives" action (and put money where my mouth is on it). That said, the comparison is kind of weak.


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Old 01-09-2010, 12:41 PM   #520
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The WBCCI will be fixed inside of the next five years. As mentioned before, once the bank balance shows $zero the club will rise from the ashes in a more fiscally responsible way.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that once the bank balance shows zero $$, the club will rise from the ashes like the mythical phoenix.
Doesn't it then logically follow from this statement that sending in due$ will only prolong the club from being "fixed?"
Isn't that what Rob and Frank and John, et al. have been arguing since post #1?

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If they can live with their names going down in club history as the do-nothings - so can I.
I don't even want to know what you mean by that statement.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:42 PM   #521
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Well you have to build it. It does not exist. If we travel alongside the rally sites in protest trying to get support and attention and interfere with the IBT to stop the letting of our limited resources then I think that is somewhat the same kind of motivation.

Anyway Lord knows I am not anyone's strong suit. Don't let anyone tell you different, not even me, on a fine Saturday afternoon playing at the keyboard.


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Oh, a la the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society? I'm kind of big on this kind of "Hayduke-lives" action (and put money where my mouth is on it). That said, the comparison is kind of weak.


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Old 01-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #522
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Or else what?

I dig the pimp/prostitute analogy but there IS a way that our dues money does not have to go to International. Each and every WBCCI unit is an independently registered corporation within their own state. There's NOTHING that says that your corporation can't sign up, as a whole, with any other established club at any time or even try considering going it alone. UNITS are absolutely free to move wherever they want, whenever they want, and the WBCCI has zero say in what they do. I'm sure that the Good Sam Club would be ECSTATIC with some new members.
This has great potential for change , if enough units did this at the same time . If it is done one at a time it would just speed up the demise ( IBT running out of funds). I think most would like to see the club survive but in a just manner. The trouble with starting all over , revolution , the new entity will probably suffer the same problems in time . Power is power , and people are people , not a good mix. Don't delude yourself , there are as many young who are power hungry as there are old .The balance of power is always key.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:54 PM   #523
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Each and every WBCCI unit is an independently registered corporation within their own state.
This statement needs correction: "Each and every unit can be an independently registered corporation within their own state" is what I should have written.

And it's really quite simple:
1) Draft a mission statement. It should describe the charitable/non-profit purpose of your unit.
2) Recruit board members. Units already have those. Each state requires a certain number of board members if you incorporate as a nonprofit.
3) Hire a lawyer if you must. A lawyer can help you file your articles of incorporation; help you apply to the IRS for tax-exempt status.
4) Open a bank account. I assume your unit already has one. If you don't, choose a bank that has experience with new, small nonprofits.
5) Find an accountant to set up a basic bookkeeping system.
6) Get an insurance agent. You'll need liability insurance if you choose to go it alone. If you go with a Good Sam's type of organization, I'm guessing they have an umbrella policy.
7) Write articles of incorporation. Units have these already. You will need these in order to incorporate in your state as a nonprofit.
8) Draft bylaws and get board approval. As you should know, bylaws specify how the organization will be run and how the board will operate. Use the ones your unit already has or modify them further to taste.
9) File for incorporation with your state. The secretary of state's office can provide you with your state's specific requirements. The IRS maintains links to state websites where you can find the appropriate office.
10) Apply to the IRS for federal tax-exempt status. The IRS provides information at its Tax Information for Charities & Other Non-Profits.
11) Apply for state tax exemption, if necessary.
12) Get a mail permit from your local post office. This will get you a discount on bulk mailings.

You may also send a letter to your Secretary of State requesting that information on incorporating as a nonprofit be sent to you.
Most state websites provide a link to the state's nonprofit corporation laws. You will want to look at these and know how to reference them as you prepare your incorporation paperwork.
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Old 01-09-2010, 12:57 PM   #524
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...The WBCCI will be fixed inside of the next five years. As mentioned before, once the bank balance shows $zero the club will rise from the ashes in a more fiscally responsible way...

--Dave
Dave, that's awfully optimistic! If the WBCCI hasn't been able to keep itself in fiscal check for the past several years, what makes you think they'll be able to get back in the black in five years?

You need membership increase to put funds in the kitty, and I've seen nothing but membership decrease.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:30 PM   #525
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Don't hold your breath Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by munimula View Post

The WBCCI will be fixed inside of the next five years. As mentioned before, once the bank balance shows $zero the club will rise from the ashes in a more fiscally responsible way.
Now that's pure hogwash... I've been waiting since 2001.. hearing the same thing... .it'll be fixed in a few years when we get new guys in their..

The power is in the nominating committee.... and they'll never nominate someone who'll make the necessary changes.. or rock the boat.. keep holding your breath.

It has to die, and then rise from the ashes with the power to the members.... it's the only way...

By giving them your $55 you are only prolonging the re-birth of what the club was at one time.

Good luck Dave.. you're turning BLUE!

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Old 01-09-2010, 01:34 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistral blue View Post
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that once the bank balance shows zero $$, the club will rise from the ashes like the mythical phoenix.
Doesn't it then logically follow from this statement that sending in due$ will only prolong the club from being "fixed?"
Isn't that what Rob and Frank and John, et al. have been arguing since post #1?

I don't even want to know what you mean by that statement.
Don,

Some will choose to hold back their $55 and miss out in the near term on club activities, in way of making a statement. Unless a wholesale boycott effort is put forth these individual boycotts will have the ripple effect of a pebble landing in the ocean.

As stated ad nauseum, pressure needs to be applied from within to effect positive change. I repeat, walking from the club can NOT be the answer nor will it facilitate the clubs demise.

Regarding my 'so can I' comment - if these guys want to have their WBCCI living legacy as being do-nothings so be it. What can we do about that?

If you want the IBT to hear your voice chime in here...

http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewf...eHg3eEdsYXc6MA


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Old 01-09-2010, 01:59 PM   #527
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As stated ad nauseum, pressure needs to be applied from within to effect positive change.

I repeat, walking from the club can NOT be the answer nor will it facilitate the clubs demise.
Again, I'm confused Dave. Sorry.
Are you advocating for the club's demise or are you advocating for positive change?
Or is it your theory that death will lead to rebirth (positive change)?

How does withholding $$ (by 1 or 100 members) NOT facilitate said demise?
Are you advocating for a wholesale boycott?
Do you really think THAT will work?

BTW, pressure HAS been applied from within for years, ad nauseum.
How's THAT been working?
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Old 01-09-2010, 02:05 PM   #528
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Incorporating a nonprofit is very easy and costs $50 online in Colorado. Other states may have made it as easy. The state form is quite simple. Getting IRS 501(c)(3) nonprofit status as an educational organization takes a lot more time and can be a pain—someone such as a tax accountant or tax or corporate lawyer can be a great help.

You can also start out as an unincorporated association—all you need are articles of association which look somewhat like articles of incorporation and say what the organization does and the powers of the board of directors in a general sense. Then you can adopt bylaws that detail how the organization in governed. I believe the IRS now allows nonprofit unincorporated associations, but it would be best to check that out. You can start as an association and later become a nonprofit corporation. Simply by stating you are an unincorporated association, you are one; you don't even need a piece of paper, but it is far better to write it down. You have to start somewhere—informally is one way, hiring a lawyer and accountant another, and plenty of ways in between.

The main reasons to go nonprofit are to give a tax deduction to donors and to not have profits taxed. if you have no donors and spend all your income, you have no problem.

The point of this is to negotiate with leadership from a position of power. From what I have read the system is set up to only allow people to become national leaders after they have proved for the most part they want exactly what the leadership wants. If they disagree as they slowly move up, they may be silenced. The system seems to be created to grind people down. It appears the leadership wants to make it easier to grieve someone who challenges the system. So, the members are powerless.

Only by grouping together and saying they will separate do they create power and therefore, may be listened too and may get change. Other methods, such as withholding dues and depositing them in an escrow account and some civil disobedience (bumper stickers, black bands across numbers, noisy protests) will make some impact. I suspect if the leadership is ex-military as has been often said, even light duty civil disobedience will be met with grievances, expulsions and such, but may be worth it if handled with skill so as to embarrass the leadership. But, you have to have power to make change and you have to create it on your own.

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Old 01-09-2010, 02:50 PM   #529
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Funny you should say that, Gene

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...I suspect if the leadership is ex-military as has been often said, even light duty civil disobedience will be met with grievances, expulsions and such, but may be worth it if handled with skill so as to embarrass the leadership...Gene
Even before I became a Non-Commissioned Officer, years and years ago, I was taught the 11 Principles of Leadership. All leaders learn and live these principles. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rob, but these principles are the same in the Marine Corps too. If you're correct, Gene, the WBCCI leadership should revisit the 11 Principles of Leadership. Here they are (in Airstream font and blue):


The 11 Principles of Leadership

1. Know yourself and seek self-improvement.
2. Be technically and tactically proficient.
3. Seek responsibility and take responsibility for your actions.
4. Make sound and timely decisions.
5. Set the example.
6. Know your soldiers and look out for their well being.
7. Keep your subordinates informed.
8. Develop a sense of responsibility in your subordinates.
9. Ensure the task is understood, supervised and accomplished.
10.Build the team.
11. Employ your unit in accordance with its capabilities.
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Old 01-09-2010, 02:52 PM   #530
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Yes, the same

Those are the principles... and I agree, the IBT should revisit them!
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:03 PM   #531
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Interesting link in post 542. Motion #14 states average member loss has been 5% a year. With the 36% dues increase to $75.00 the projection goes to 7% member loss into 2011. (Simlar to the dues increase and membership loss of 2006) However the added revenue will be $100,000+ a year based on a less than 6000 membership. (Currently at about 6600 members)

The question remains - are the total dues worth the price paid?

In my opinion, for a person/family unit that caravans or rally's a lot I would think yes. (Being a caravan moves in different locations and a rally is the destination in itself) For the same camper that rally's on occasion and/or is only willing to do weekenders and local meetings I believe the threshold for answering the above question as a NO is approaching swiftly. Again just my opinion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 01-09-2010, 03:54 PM   #532
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Leadership is a difficult skill to master. I found The Tao of Leadership very helpful years ago. It's probably long out of print, but available in fine libraries everywhere.

One thing I remember is you can't lead if no one is following. It appears the WBCCI leaders have cut themselves off from a lot of supposed followers. Thousands have quit and many others are unhappy.

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