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Old 01-12-2010, 07:27 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
...I think we should all just cool our collective jets, kick back and watch Dave work his magic with the IBT.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Frank. As much as I would love to go to the mid-winter meeting and speak to the IBT, it's not going to happen for me. As you know I am a single Dad with two teens at home and can't get away.

I belong to Region 2 and our President will be in LA well armed with with the opinions of the Airstreamers from his Region.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:16 PM   #582
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...The military has never been known for good budgeting.

Gene
At what we call Echelons Above Reality, I agree. At the lower levels, I can tell you that some of the units I've been in, especially Special Forces, got very creative with their resources, in order to make them last, because we knew that we weren't getting resupplied on a regular basis.

I would still expect a modicum of conservation from the Koream War crowd.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:14 PM   #583
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Blue Water

When I went into the Navy, one of my best friend's dad made the remark to me; "You must be going Navy, you couldn't be going Coast Guard." I asked him "Why not?" He said "You're short!" I said "I'm 5'10"." He said "You have to be at least 6' tall to be in the Coast Guard." I said "Are you sure? I've never heard of that requirement." He said "Of course. You MUST be 6' tall or more to be in the Coast Guard." I said "Why is that?" He said "So you can WALK back to shore when the boat sinks!" He was a Korean war vet with a good sense of humor!

My grand dad is 84, a WWII vet (was a Hellcat and later a Corsair crew chief on the Saratoga), and was a member of WBCCI for many years. He might still be. But he told me a year or so back he was going to quit because it wasn't any fun anymore.

WBCCI has never been without it's turmoil. I think that is what Dale was saying all along. Wally talks about it extensively in his book that he wrote in 1959 about how they were all ready to kill each other when stuff broke in the middle of nowhere. There was always strife.

But, maybe not like it is now...

At any rate, I still haven't heard if Avions can be in the new club....Guess I might have to be a Tin Can Tourist

Back to your regularly scheduled programming....
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:40 AM   #584
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Wrong word Dave

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Originally Posted by munimula View Post

I belong to Region 2 and our President will be in LA well armed with with the opinions of the Airstreamers from his Region.
Dave, he'll be well armed with the opinions of the WBCCIers from his region is a more accurate statement.

I doubt he's going with my opinion. And we'll be listening to see if he rocks the boat or if he's just sitting there with his life jacket on.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:25 PM   #585
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are you kidding

what is up with all this if you want change than work for it not just sit on the side and to complain about vets who layed their lifes down for you to have your freedom to voice and make change shame on all of you I am a member and a 26 year vet and at 52 I guss a baby boomer but I respect all and mostly vets been there done that try picking on me people I am young enough to deal with it. these old vets you wine about built this club for you and all to enjoy dont like the way its running, cange it or go away quit wining about it who sead life is perfect and just for you ..............
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:50 PM   #586
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what is up with all this if you want change than work for it not just sit on the side and to complain about vets who layed their lifes down for you to have your freedom to voice and make change shame on all of you I am a member and a 26 year vet and at 52 I guss a baby boomer but I respect all and mostly vets been there done that try picking on me people I am young enough to deal with it. these old vets you wine about built this club for you and all to enjoy dont like the way its running, cange it or go away quit wining about it who sead life is perfect and just for you ..............
Just because they're vets doesn't mean they're beyond reproach. I've known some dirty servicemembers. When I was in 10th Special Forces Group (Airborne), a Soldier in Supply found a bunch of blank ID cards in the dumpster...this was when our ID cards were still green. He made several fake ID's and printed up bogus checks. He went to the PX regularly and presented his checks and ID to the nice lady who gave him cash. He did this to the tune of $70,000, until one day he presented the wrong ID with a fake check. When the lady told him that the ID didn't match up, he took the ID, put it in his pocket and pulled out another ID. The MPs at Fort Carson arrested him, as he tried fleeing from the PX.

If you think I'm exaggerating, pick up the latest copy of the Army Times that talks about the two Captains who embezzled over $400,000.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:53 PM   #587
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I will survive!

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Old 01-14-2010, 03:00 AM   #588
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Just because they're vets doesn't mean they're beyond reproach. I've known some dirty servicemembers.
StingrayL82 is correct. If you want further proof, the Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth Kansas can provide you with numerous such cases. That's where all members of the Armed Forces serve sentences in excess of two years, mostly at hard labor. The Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary (completely separate but both institutions share the same grounds) is a kid's camp in comparison.

This is one reason why the Christmas Day Bomber is one lucky S.O.B. he's being tried in criminal court instead of by a military tribunal.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:32 AM   #589
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1. Free James Brown...(Scratch That) FREE ROB BAKER!

2. I had considered joining WBCCI for about the past 5 years, but something always seemed a little fishy. (Like the Supply Sgt. that always had new boots, but I was always told we were broke until the next Fiscal Year).

3. Rob, how can I help get something organized?
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:29 AM   #590
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Dues increase

Well, the dues increase happened.. now, how many are gonna support giving the IBT more $$$$$ - because ZERO of that will go to the local unit or region....

The IBT and Region officers voted for a cut in their re-imbursements.... they should have cut it to zero but you heard many say if that happened, they'd not be able to do what they do...

8-9 rallies a year - I was re-imbursed nada, zilch, zippo... but a "reimbursement" is not what I was looking for... but it sure does sounds like that's not hte case with your current leadership.... hell, Jerry Larson even said they needed another $120k... what the hell?
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:39 AM   #591
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Rob, I was reimbursed for every rally I went to last year...the memories were priceless.
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:47 AM   #592
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Business as usual

The IBT meeting produced no significant changes in what is wrong with WBCCI. Given the actual travel expenditures last year, the reductions in officer's travel budgets were trivial.

Any real reorganization was bucked over to the 2020 committee for study. Given that in four years, the 2020 committee has produced nothing of consequence, I have no real hope that that will change now. Even when and if the 2020 committee comes up with proposals, there will be bickering no end, especially from those regions that will be merged. What a cat fight there will be in deciding who stays and who goes. That could take years. In the mean time, they will be back for another dues increase.

What can you expect from a bunch of whining and sniveling cheap skates like us members, according to Jim Franklin and Jerry Larson.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:24 AM   #593
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What I find particularly interesting is how many times during the IBT meetings I heard them say how do we balance the budget or cover the deficet without cutting member benefits. The majority of spending does not cover member benefits but leadership benefits. When and if we can go to International we pay our fees and get no perks and stay the shortest thereby receiving the least for paying the most, and so it is with dues, increase or not. You and I do not cost them a whole heck of a lot of money to camp and meet with the other Airstreamers as we do. When a group plans an event they dont spend what they dont have and ask others to flit the bill. The extravagances are what make it so unacceptable and blatant and give a poor image to the club, then to be insulted over and over each IBT meeting is very damaging. Member retention the problem? No kidding. That's alright they only need a few "quality members" like the many PIPs who can each kick in a thousand periodically to keep the tour alive in their self proclaimed most expensive rigs on the road.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:02 PM   #594
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Yes

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Originally Posted by 62overlander View Post
Rob, I was reimbursed for every rally I went to last year...the memories were priceless.
Frank, exactly why the IBT should be saying I don't need any $$$$ - have it...

But as WheelInterested states, they worry about cutting member benefits and not the leader benefits to balance the budget.. instead of cutting significantly, they raised the member's dues... what? unbelievable...

I say hit em, and hit hard (sometimes a good swift hit gets someones attention before it's too late - it might be too late already)... right where they are forced to act in July... letters after letters of resignation would show them!!! and it's got to be more than the 7% they expected, more than the 16% they admitted to at the meeting too...

oh yeah, they also need all this $$$$ to market the club.. and so much to advertise the International... who DOES NOT KNOW that the International occurs every year around the 4th.. and if they put an International ad here on these forums (as a $20 a year contributor)... and go on the VAP and talk it up..... for pennies... compared to the $40 plus thousand they are spending... CLUELESS, CLUELESS, CLUELESS...
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:10 PM   #595
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They say it will be up to the units and the regions to keep members in the club. They have done their fiscal responsibility in increasing the dues. Once they promote the club to the tune of $15,000 a year additional to the budget, they expect to be rolling in dough, just as soon as the lost member numbers are superceded by brand new recruits in droves... Kinda makes you wonder what member value they will be promoting. If those people don't stay, they will say it is the members' that did not work hard enough to retain them.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:10 AM   #596
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Any real reorganization was bucked over to the 2020 committee for study. Given that in four years, the 2020 committee has produced nothing of consequence, I have no real hope that that will change now.
I am not a big fan of committee's and especially the endless number in WBCCI, but from what I can find, the 2020 committee has been productive. However, they have absolutely no authority to act upon their findings. It seems the leadership has simply not acted on most of what 2020 is bringing forward.
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Old 01-25-2010, 11:45 AM   #597
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Frank, exactly why the IBT should be saying I don't need any $$$$ - have it...

But as WheelInterested states, they worry about cutting member benefits and not the leader benefits to balance the budget.. instead of cutting significantly, they raised the member's dues... what? unbelievable...

I say hit em, and hit hard (sometimes a good swift hit gets someones attention before it's too late - it might be too late already)... right where they are forced to act in July... letters after letters of resignation would show them!!! and it's got to be more than the 7% they expected, more than the 16% they admitted to at the meeting too...

oh yeah, they also need all this $$$$ to market the club.. and so much to advertise the International... who DOES NOT KNOW that the International occurs every year around the 4th.. and if they put an International ad here on these forums (as a $20 a year contributor)... and go on the VAP and talk it up..... for pennies... compared to the $40 plus thousand they are spending... CLUELESS, CLUELESS, CLUELESS...

Rob and all!

What makes anyone think the leadership of the WBCCI is looking for new members? They haven't done one thing to entice people to join, especially families.

The Leadership is looking for affluent, retired, RV owners (not specifically Airstream). Who are interested in travelling not camping. They want people who have the time to spend a month making decisions, going out to lunch and living the life of luxury they all believe they have earned and are entitled to! Those people can afford hundreds in membership fees for the exclusivity they are looking for. Sadly there are many who will not leave to try out something new until it's obviously shown that there is a better alternative and until that time the leadership will be all too willing to collect their dues and continue the party!

The basic values of those at the top are so foreign to the average working family who is looking for recreation that its not funny. The amount of energy expended in complaining, whining and postulating is downright sad.

If all of us who have felt slighted by the club actually went out and did what most dissatisfied entrepanuerial minded people do and start a business that competes for the energies of the disaffected working guys and gals, we would have an organization that would dwarf the organization run by the short sighted leadership of once great club!

We would actually be doing them a favor by removing all the thorns in their sides. It hasn't been shown yet but my gut tells me that is what the focus of the new Marketing group will be. The Ad would go something like this "OLDEST AND LARGEST RV CLUB IN THE WORLD LOOKING FOR RETIREES WITH RECENTLY PURCHASED RVS".

The really sad part is that no one is willing to go to mat and create the competition, so with no alternative, and closer to retirement than I would like to think, I have succumed to the only game in town senario, primarily because of the VAC. And while there are other clubs there is no other Airstream Club and until there is, I will pay my $66 tribute to the high and mighty for the priviledge of my unit members company!

Should a group actually come forward and be interested in creating an RV club for real "Wally" fans. I'm all ears!

WAM
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:39 PM   #598
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I am not a big fan of committee's and especially the endless number in WBCCI, but from what I can find, the 2020 committee has been productive. However, they have absolutely no authority to act upon their findings. It seems the leadership has simply not acted on most of what 2020 is bringing forward.
Thank you and you are correct. The 2020 has done a MASSIVE amount of work, research, surveys through the Units, developing a bottom up philosophy, putting graphs and numbers together to show decline and setting goals for growing the club, suggesting an overhaul of the magazine/newsletters/electronic media, reduction of region and international officers, reduction of expenses and where that might happen. It may not seem obvious, but the work of the committee is making a difference, but it is very slow going and no, we don't have any authority, and are merely an advisory committee.

I won't give up however. My term runs out soon and I hope some other "regular" members will throw their names in for sitting on the committee. Right now there are a couple of us who are not region or international officers and are purely unit members. We need a to maintain or increase the membership on this committee with the same. By the way, I have not been able to meet any of the committee members in person or attend the IBT's, but we work electronically and by phone. My input has been taken very seriously, for which I am thankful. So attendance is not a prerequisite.

Why wouldn't 'regular' unit members try to input at these committee levels rather than leaving it to the international people? If this is supposed to be more of a grassroots club, why not bring the committees to the unit levels for involvement?

Change is very slow, which is unfortunate.

Still we will remain with the WBCCI and the NEU. We also enjoy all the other avenues for camping outside the club, but the NEU has given us the most enjoyment and friendships along with the camping/caravanning traditions.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:58 PM   #599
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You know I love you Pam and I agree we have seen a little bit of change, a better looking Blue Beret, a survey that at least asked the questions, when was that 2006? committee's that reported back information but to what end? Even with overwhelming remarks and suggestions I don’t see that anything actually changed or happened. Similar to what the committee is seeing. I think I'm seeing the same issues come up we heard then.

The survey is the biggest example of something that had value, asked members what they were looking for and in spite of the overwhelming feedback in some areas not ONE single thing was acted upon. They had the information then didn’t know what to do with it. No one who had any authority could think of how to effect the change. As a matter of fact they took something that was not a top priority on the survey the famous "Name Change" and went for that. Wow! way to go with research?????? Take something the people do not list as a priority need and get all riled up about that. No matter what information is collected if it is not to be acted on it is of little value. It becomes something someone points to and says "well at least we are trying" Well I think this group need to see more outcome the "trying" has taken too long and what we have learned is that at some level where authority to change can happen no one wants to change.


The change now is non existent and too slow and the small changes really have not been significant enough to change the face or direction of the club. As a matter of fact I see more negativity and people stepping back because of it than ever before and I assure you it's not the forum that is responsible.

In general from what I see and read people are not getting the feeling it is their club. They have no power, no say, and no vote on how any thing is done and more importantly they are not feeling like they are a member. That is not a club to me. You know I only belong to the parent group because I have to to remain in my unit other wise I with Don, would like to secede from the parent club. They do nothing for me.

I wish NEU would consider to make a move to do this. I think our unit has spoken and the parent company is of no value to us anymore.


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Old 01-25-2010, 02:32 PM   #600
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Why can't the International Club become an intraclub of WBCCI like the VAC and the CAC? The alumni can retain leadership of their own international club as they know it and other members can shape the general membership side of the club. All we need is a division of power and money and can still coexist together. We need member advocates and a summit. But no more monopoly of a group with its own agenda dictating and asking for subsidies of those who have no part of in their benefits or philosophy. It could work. As one speaker mentioned to get the younger and newer Airstreamers we need to start thinking out of the box. Thinking out of the box for the future of social Airstreaming is a great slogan. Who was that speaker?
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