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Old 06-05-2017, 11:08 AM   #57
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Now when I pass a pickup truck towing a boat or box trailer, or RV, I look at the hitch. 90% of the time it's just on the ball.
Haven't seen any flip over yet.
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:44 PM   #58
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Any tow vehicle pulling a trailer without the hitch pivot point at or near the drive axle(s), a bumper-pull setup, is an accommodation. Pickup trucks are designed for hauling, semi-trailer trucks are designed for towing.

No matter the size of the pickup truck.

The semi truck places much of the trailer weight over the drive axle, the pivot point over the drive axle does not leverage trailer sway forward to the steering axle.

The bumper-pull truck places it's hitch weight well behind the drive axle, the pivot point well behind the drive axle does leverage trailer sway forward to the steering axle.

With a big, heavy pickup, there may be enough steering axle weight and wheelbase to resist this trailer sway leveraged to the steering axle under most conditions, but it's not a sure bet. There is a risk in not using a w.d. hitch with sway control.

A well setup w.d. hitch will move some of the hitch weight forward to ensure heavy hitch and bed loads do not allow the steering axle to become to light for good control in all conditions.

Weight distribution/sway control hitches resist the trailer movement to varying degrees, depending on many factors. The Projected Pivot Point hitch places the pivot point near the drive axle, an entirely different concept; no trailer sway is leveraged to the steering axle. Like a semi truck.

Why risk it. Use a quality, well set up weight distribution hitch with sway control or sway elimination. The lighter, shorter wheelbase pickups will enjoy the PPP hitch in day-to-day towing the most, the Airstream just follows like a puppy dog.
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:55 PM   #59
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And Dougs free commercial for propride is over again, repeated for the umpteenth time.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:02 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Any tow vehicle pulling a trailer without the hitch pivot point at or near the drive axle(s), a bumper-pull setup, is an accommodation. Pickup trucks are designed for hauling, semi-trailer trucks are designed for towing.

No matter the size of the pickup truck.

The semi truck places much of the trailer weight over the drive axle, the pivot point over the drive axle does not leverage trailer sway forward to the steering axle.

The bumper-pull truck places it's hitch weight well behind the drive axle, the pivot point well behind the drive axle does leverage trailer sway forward to the steering axle.

With a big, heavy pickup, there may be enough steering axle weight and wheelbase to resist this trailer sway leveraged to the steering axle under most conditions, but it's not a sure bet. There is a risk in not using a w.d. hitch with sway control.

A well setup w.d. hitch will move some of the hitch weight forward to ensure heavy hitch and bed loads do not allow the steering axle to become to light for good control in all conditions.

Weight distribution/sway control hitches resist the trailer movement to varying degrees, depending on many factors. The Projected Pivot Point hitch places the pivot point near the drive axle, an entirely different concept; no trailer sway is leveraged to the steering axle. Like a semi truck.

Why risk it. Use a quality, well set up weight distribution hitch with sway control or sway elimination. The lighter, shorter wheelbase pickups will enjoy the PPP hitch in day-to-day towing the most, the Airstream just follows like a puppy dog.
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Old 06-05-2017, 03:59 PM   #61
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I wish.

Note the information is for a generic Pivot Point Projection hitch, and I always try to use Hensley/ProPride together. They are direct competitors.

This thread is a hitch thread. When someone suggests we need a $70,000 dollar heavy pickup to stabilize an Airstream (for the umpteenth time), I suggest a $2,500 dollar hitch as a more sensible choice (for the umpteenth time).

It's the nature of experience and discussion about what we have all learned.

Or as in the o.p.'s case, any quality, well set up weight distribution hitch is better than none when things go bad, or when you might want to carry more in the truck's bed than you had planned. That's a sensible choice as well.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:46 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
Now when I pass a pickup truck towing a boat or box trailer, or RV, I look at the hitch. 90% of the time it's just on the ball.
Haven't seen any flip over yet.
Hi

Back when we lived in Kansas they had "high profile vehicle alerts" based on wind conditions. One fairly sure thing each season -- pictures on TV of high profile vehicles in trouble from the wind soon after. Yes, it's no different than snow issues with a blizzard. People do silly things and get in trouble ...(I've certainly done some stupid stuff over the last 50 years. Some of it was soon followed by a hospital visit

Bob
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:33 AM   #63
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As I have posted before on my big trucks , with a pintal hitch behind the rear axle pulling a 3 axle trailer, is the same as a pickup with a bumper pull trailer, the empty weight of the truck is 27500 lbs, empty trailer is 12500 lbs..the loaded weights are 55,500 and 43500lbs.....the towing vehicle is heavier than the trailer, I towed the loaded trailer with the empty truck a short distance on the highway one time,never again...this kenworth has 4 axles pulling a 3 axle pup trailer with 1.4 million miles and never has the trailer attempted to take over...it handles good even on snow and icey roads...so the towing vehicle weight VS the trailer weight does make a difference...
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:09 AM   #64
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As I have posted before on my big trucks , with a pintal hitch behind the rear axle pulling a 3 axle trailer, is the same as a pickup with a bumper pull trailer, the empty weight of the truck is 27500 lbs, empty trailer is 12500 lbs..the loaded weights are 55,500 and 43500lbs.....the towing vehicle is heavier than the trailer, I towed the loaded trailer with the empty truck a short distance on the highway one time,never again...this kenworth has 4 axles pulling a 3 axle pup trailer with 1.4 million miles and never has the trailer attempted to take over...it handles good even on snow and icey roads...so the towing vehicle weight VS the trailer weight does make a difference...
This is absolutely correct. There was a mechanical engineering technical article cited in a previous thread (it got deleted before I could bookmark the article), that researched the factors involved in stability of pull behind trailers. The relative weight of TV as compared to trailer was a major factor (I believe it was the second most important factor after speed). So, its not just seat of the pants when folks say they feel their trailer is more stable behind an HD truck (which is much heavier than an 1/2 truck). Of course this does not mean we all have to buy an HD truck. It all depends on the weight of the trailer we plan to pull.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:17 AM   #65
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Hi

While I completely agree that this whole discussion gets out of control each time it comes up (weekly) ...

The Ford guy in the video is referring to something fairly specific. At that point he's bragging (rightly) on how strong / stiff the frame is on the new 250's. Many vehicles have two towing numbers. One is with WD and the other without WD. This is a frame strength issue to some degree. It also gets into several other things (like axles). The 250's only have one number, it's the same with and without WD.

It's not hard to come up with examples of *any* vehicle getting into trouble due to strange conditions. Often "I have fancy equipment" translates to "I'll take bigger risks". Multiple big 4x4 SUV's sitting by the side of the road upside down after a blizzard is a depressingly common example. There is no simple single answer to any of this.

Bob

Agreed.
The human factor is by far the most influential in all of this.
And thankfully, judging by the statistics the vast majority of us towing are responsible and manage to stay out of trouble with what ever equipment we use.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:26 PM   #66
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This is absolutely correct. There was a mechanical engineering technical article cited in a previous thread (it got deleted before I could bookmark the article), that researched the factors involved in stability of pull behind trailers. The relative weight of TV as compared to trailer was a major factor (I believe it was the second most important factor after speed). So, its not just seat of the pants when folks say they feel their trailer is more stable behind an HD truck (which is much heavier than an 1/2 truck). Of course this does not mean we all have to buy an HD truck. It all depends on the weight of the trailer we plan to pull.
A pick-up truck is designed to allow additional weight to be carried on the back axle, not so much the front axle. If the truck is evenly loaded with cargo, most of the additional weight is, in fact, on the back axle...where it belongs. If a WDH can redistribute the tongue weight of the TT to the truck axles in the same proportion as an equal weight of evenly distributed cargo in the bed of the truck, then any p-u (even a mid-size) rated for 1/2 ton should handle a TT with up to 1000 lb tongue weight. The key here is getting the WDH adjusted properly...a somewhat iffy assumption...to redistribute the tongue weight exactly correct.

The other condition in towing is sway control. The electronic systems available with late model pick-ups (5 years or so) are much more sophisticated and reliable than any mechanical system. A 2013 half-ton Silverado, for example, can be had with electronic Trailer Sway Control (TSC) and Integrated Trailer Brake Control (ITBC) in addition to ABS, electronic stability control (ESC), and traction control system (TCS). Working together these features react instantly to any degree of yaw, applying individual braking to different wheels and backing off throttle until sway is controlled. Spending the extra money to buy a WDH with integrated (supposedly) sway control is redundant at best and just wasting your money IMO.

No amount of technology is gonna compensate for stupid moves and lack of common sense towing, of course.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:38 AM   #67
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Towing & hitches

M.Hony:

You're right down the pike.....


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Old 06-07-2017, 09:44 AM   #68
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Right down the pike?
Meaning?
Not very close to Houston at all...
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:07 AM   #69
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Hi

Back when we lived in Kansas they had "high profile vehicle alerts" based on wind conditions. One fairly sure thing each season -- pictures on TV of high profile vehicles in trouble from the wind soon after. Yes, it's no different than snow issues with a blizzard. People do silly things and get in trouble ...(I've certainly done some stupid stuff over the last 50 years. Some of it was soon followed by a hospital visit

Bob
Yes, and the majority of those "high profile" vehicles are semi's which as the Pro Pride salesman pointed out are not suffering the problems of a bumper pull hitch. The wind simply blew them over!
BTW, I agreed with 100% of what DKottum said....until the last sentence.
"Don't buy a RollsRoyce when a Mercedes will do." Um, I'm more of a Toyota guy.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:52 AM   #70
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Yes, and the majority of those "high profile" vehicles are semi's which as the Pro Pride salesman pointed out are not suffering the problems of a bumper pull hitch. The wind simply blew them over!
BTW, I agreed with 100% of what DKottum said....until the last sentence.
"Don't buy a RollsRoyce when a Mercedes will do." Um, I'm more of a Toyota guy.
Hi

Actually there generally were a pretty good number cab over campers flipped over on TV. Still nothing to do with AS hitches. A lot do do with ignoring the warnings ....

Bob
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