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Old 12-11-2018, 06:30 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPJ View Post
I don’t get it.

Given that most electricity in the US is still produced by burning fossil fuels, charging an electric car can indirectly generate similar amounts of greenhouse gases to a petrol-powered vehicle.
I don’t care about that stuff, but the portion of coal plant pollution that results from charging an EV is much less than a petrol car of the same power. You can look this up. Yes, coal smoke is ugly but the amount of power generated is huge in proportion. If people really cared about this (most don’t) they’d be posting about how they don’t run air conditioning in their homes in summer. Central A/C uses much more power than charging an EV. Trust me, I did it for 2 years and I saved enough energy converting to LEDs to charge that car for free. Want to do the math yourself? 760W is one horsepower. Times 65 hp (my EV motor) and about 40 minutes to work. $.11 per kWh to charge. I didn’t fast charge or anything like that. And always had a diesel for heavy work (I’m not an environmentalist).

I’ve done it all: waste oil, veggie oil, greasel conversions, electric pickup trucks and cars. And the batteries back then were nothing like today.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
During the last 12 months we have visited relatives in Germany two times. We are going there for a wedding next August. We also have relatives in France and Hungary and visit all very often. And you can believe whatever published report you chose the facts on the ground do not support it. There is total news suppression and full blown generation of fake news to influence narrative in Western Europe. They have no FOX and if you read the EU version of the WSJ your head will spin.
Hungary is 180 degrees from the Western Countries.
Ummm I think he is in the industry (so am I) so he can probably see a few years ahead.
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:02 PM   #45
jcl
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During the last 12 months we have visited relatives in Germany two times. We are going there for a wedding next August. We also have relatives in France and Hungary and visit all very often. And you can believe whatever published report you chose the facts on the ground do not support it. There is total news suppression and full blown generation of fake news to influence narrative in Western Europe. They have no FOX and if you read the EU version of the WSJ your head will spin.
Hungary is 180 degrees from the Western Countries.
“Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!”
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Old 12-11-2018, 07:18 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by HHPJ View Post
I don’t get it.

Given that most electricity in the US is still produced by burning fossil fuels, charging an electric car can indirectly generate similar amounts of greenhouse gases to a petrol-powered vehicle.
Actually, it doesn’t, as Countryboy posted above. Studies available. Just be wary of any study funded by an organization with Koch in their name.

A complete analysis will include well to wheel emissions, plus the manufacturing cycle. We could include the disposal cycle as well, but that benefits EVs even more due to battery recycling. On this basis, an EV will produce less than half the emissions of a gasoline vehicle, considering an average US power generation mix (Coal, oil, nuclear, hydro, etc). This is simply due to improved thermal efficiencies. IC engines aren’t very efficient, gas or diesel.

The worst state for the EV is West Virginia, with almost all power generated from coal, and there the EV still has lower emissions, even considering the higher emissions resulting from manufacturing it. Vermont is reportedly the best.

Assuming a ten year life, the gasoline vehicle will on average emit 33 tons more GHG pollution. Multiply that by the number of vehicles for a sense of why this all matters.

Now add in that approximately 30% of EV owners are installing rooftop solar. That tips the scales further.

Now considerer the rate of change. Whether we like it or not, things are changing, and the rate of change is increasing. If you have 100,000 vehicles on the road, it is really difficult to make them all cleaner at some point. We end up with cash for clunkers programs, as an example, but it is slow and expensive. Now consider 100,00 EVs powered by one power station. That is one emissions source to clean up, much easier by comparison.

This is even before we get to issues of energy security.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:46 PM   #47
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Rivian Electric Truck and SUV

Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPJ
I don’t get it.



Given that most electricity in the US is still produced by burning fossil fuels, charging an electric car can indirectly generate similar amounts of greenhouse gases to a petrol-powered vehicle.


Electric grid deceased in carbon emissions overtime, your gas guzzling vehicle doesn’t.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmu...to-get-cleaner

“Seventy-five percent of people now live in places where driving on electricity is cleaner than a 50 MPG gasoline car.”
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:21 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by featherbedder View Post
Has any one any info what would hrs. or miles usage be and speeds before needing charge except post 1 up to 4oo miles per charge? A 300 mile day or more would take a lot of juice esp. towing, Another thing where are recharge stations going to be located. IMO great for local but when on interstates etc. dead in the water if batts. depleated, just can not call serv. and get can of gas, or is it going to be hybrid? Not any of these concerns have been discussed previous posts.
Easy fix, get another ''dog bone'' adaptor for the honda eu 2000 generator. I know of one person that ran out of juice and asked a homeowner for a quick charge . She was a young attractive redhead driving a Tesla. I wonder if a 60 yr. old male with ''big bones'', have the same luck with a Rivian truck? A truck with 800 hp AWD, I'm in love already. Thanks Moosetags.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:05 AM   #49
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Are the current Tesla charging stations open source to allow other manufactures vehicles charge or will Tesla shut them down to only allow their vehicles to charge to keep their market share when other competitors start cutting into Tesla sales? Do Tesla owners pay for charge at stations I’ve seen at hotels and other locations currently?
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:23 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
Your relatives might appreciate some new data sources. Instead of spreading misinformation, let them know what is really happening.

Diesel sales for passenger vehicle new sales in Europe have declined significantly, depending on the country. Projections are it will be down to 5% market share by 2030.



Full Article: https://www.reuters.com/article/euro...-idUSL8N1WS22L
Perhaps you didn't fully grasp my post.
The only news anyone gets including Reuters in western Europe what the government puts out. There is full censorship and everything is driven by the narrative the government wants to disseminate. The current narrative is no one is interested in buying Diesel Cars everyone desires to own Electric cars. Don't be left behind. Be a good citizen and by electric which very few are interested in or can afford.
Meanwhile in France they are aggressively cutting pensions. The increase in Diesel fuel Tax was mostly needed to finance their social programs.
That has been their main vehicle for revenue .
FYI my relatives as well as their neighbors all drive diesels. Their mantra, you have to take my diesel from my cold dead hands.
Only the younger people in the families purchase gasoline cars because they can be had cheap when used and considerably less expensive new.
FYI, I was born in Communist Hungary escaped with my family following the 1956 uprising against the oppressive Communist regime and Soviet Occupation. Was fortunate to come to America as a " Legal " Immigrant at the ripe young age of 16 that was 60 years ago. Like most with my background political BS detector is in our DNA.
I have extended family there and through marriage gained relatives in Germany and France as well I have been traveling to Europe regularly since 1972 and have been keeping current with what goes on there ever since at the grass roots level.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:25 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
Are the current Tesla charging stations open source to allow other manufactures vehicles charge or will Tesla shut them down to only allow their vehicles to charge to keep their market share when other competitors start cutting into Tesla sales? Do Tesla owners pay for charge at stations I’ve seen at hotels and other locations currently?
Good question!

I am intrigued by the Rivian and its payload and towing specs. I will be interested to see how it performs in real world cold weather including snow and ice. I am hoping that our next vehicle to replace the Tundra can be a hybrid or even an EV.

Also, I like the looks of it. Hope Rivian can pull it off.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:47 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJRitchie
Are the current Tesla charging stations open source to allow other manufactures vehicles charge or will Tesla shut them down to only allow their vehicles to charge to keep their market share when other competitors start cutting into Tesla sales? Do Tesla owners pay for charge at stations I’ve seen at hotels and other locations currently?

Tesla’s charge connector and protocol is 100% proprietary (and arguably superior) to what all other car makers use. Tesla SuperChargers Bart between “free”, “lifetime subscription”, and “pay-per-use” models.

The destination chargers you see are typically free to use, AFAIK. The host of the charger expects to gain value from having it, such as Tesla owners staying at their hotel or dining at their restaurant.

Tesla was smart enough to realize that the charge infrastructure dictates success or failure for EVs, so they invested capital into creating it. They paid for that destination charger at the hotel, likely including 100% of the cost to install it. So it is in their interest to maintain them proprietary to their cars.

There are multiple other charging networks that support “all” EVs, they range from similar subscription or pay-per-use models. Some charge insane prices and actually make EVs unappealing, as the kWh rate is higher than gasoline in many cases. Others are reasonable, though you typically pay more for the faster charging...perhaps 2X to 4X to use a DC Fast Charger (50kW+) rather than a 7kW Charger...but that DCFC takes a _lot_ more infrastructure investment to support it. Getting >200kW steady state out or a multi-head charger takes serious power infrastructure.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:34 AM   #53
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Perhaps you didn't fully grasp my post.
The only news anyone gets...
I understood it fine, thanks. I just found it to not be grounded in reality.

If you don't like one news source, check another. If you don't believe government sales figures, check industry figures. If you believe they are all in on a great conspiracy, then I don't understand why you are posting here, since the internet would obviously be a part of the conspiracy.

Watch as VW discontinues diesel vehicles. As Toyota pulls all diesels from Europe. As Mercedes and BMW pull all diesels from North America. And on it goes. These are companies that have recognized that it makes more business sense not to sell this product for passenger vehicles.

You have every right to your own opinion. However, when you post that these and other companies are selling more diesel passenger vehicles than they are producing, it is difficult to have a conversation because you are attempting to have your own facts.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:49 AM   #54
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The biggest problem for me would be servicing and repair. The idea of an ETV is great if it can produce that kind of range and power. But I think until Ford, GM, or Dodge comes out with one I'm probably not in the market. Heck I don't even buy a Toyota or Nissan because for me it's a 1.5 hour trip to get it serviced. But this is really promising. If charging stations can be developed to fast charge, etc. Then I can see an ETV that gets 400 miles as being very viable for the market place. If FORD, GM, or Dodge would come out with one, I would definitely consider it.

The other thing to consider is 400 miles while towing? One other person on this forum that has a Tesla stated the range decreases by 50% while towing. That could be an issue.

Another thing is the battery efficiency decreases over time. What's it cost to replace a battery? Kind of like IPHONE batteries that eventually don't hold the charge as long and need to be recharged more often. That still concerns me.
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Old 12-15-2018, 11:27 AM   #55
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Some EV and Charging Insights from a Tesla and Airstream Owner

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Originally Posted by KJRitchie View Post
Are the current Tesla charging stations open source to allow other manufactures vehicles charge or will Tesla shut them down to only allow their vehicles to charge to keep their market share when other competitors start cutting into Tesla sales? Do Tesla owners pay for charge at stations I’ve seen at hotels and other locations currently?
Tesla Superchargers and Destination Chargers have a proprietary design, however, Tesla has said they are happy to partner with other automakers to use their system, but no one has taken them up on it. We have a Tesla Model X and have literally driven across the United States 3 times, into Canada and back. We've put 40k miles on our X in just 2 years and absolutely LOVE our car and will not go back to a non-EV unless we have to.

We have a deposit down on the Rivian R1T, as we like the design, would love to support another US EV automaker and want an EV tow vehicle, but we are also very interested in the upcoming Tesla Truck. My concern, just as others have noted is the significant loads when towing that decrease range by about 50%. So a 400 mile Rivian (the 180kw model) will likely have, realistically, around 200 miles or less range when towing our Airstream, which really isn't too bad. What I am concerned about is their charging infrastructure. With Tesla, I'm guaranteed the ability to drive almost anywhere in the US (with some exceptions) and southern Canada and be able to quick charge. Tesla would also get me within range of virtually anywhere there is a campground where I can also charge fairly quickly via 30 or 50amp service. Rivian's charging solution is a bit up in the air right now. They've said they plan to build chargers in/near national parks (as they are marketing as an "adventure" vehicle) but that doesn't help me get there.

Electrify America (a company launched by VW following dieselgate) is building quick charging stations along highways in the US (which Rivian vehicles can use) but they have been slow to deploy and aren't close to matching Tesla's wide availability (which also continues to grow). Tesla was brilliant in their buildout of a nationwide (actually worldwide with chargers across Europe, Australia, Japan and China) quick charge network. It helped sell us on our Model X purchase (which I would absolutely do again).

So as it stands we have a deposit on the R1T and will wait to see what Tesla introduces in the next year for a design. Then choose which we will go with. If Rivian partnered with Tesla on its network (which seems like a no brainer to me) I'd probably lean toward the Rivian as our final purchase option, but as of now it will likely be the Tesla, even though I expect it to be more expensive as it will be a much better option for trailer towing with the expansive charge network.
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Old 12-15-2018, 11:35 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Daquenzer View Post
The biggest problem for me would be servicing and repair. The idea of an ETV is great if it can produce that kind of range and power. But I think until Ford, GM, or Dodge comes out with one I'm probably not in the market. Heck I don't even buy a Toyota or Nissan because for me it's a 1.5 hour trip to get it serviced. But this is really promising. If charging stations can be developed to fast charge, etc. Then I can see an ETV that gets 400 miles as being very viable for the market place. If FORD, GM, or Dodge would come out with one, I would definitely consider it.

The other thing to consider is 400 miles while towing? One other person on this forum that has a Tesla stated the range decreases by 50% while towing. That could be an issue.

Another thing is the battery efficiency decreases over time. What's it cost to replace a battery? Kind of like IPHONE batteries that eventually don't hold the charge as long and need to be recharged more often. That still concerns me.
One thing to consider with an EV is, in my experience, they are more reliable than ICE vehicles. There are far fewer moving parts. With our Model X with its dual motors, even if one were to fail, it can still drive on one motor, thus the chance of being stranded anywhere is close to zero (except for a massive tire failure, etc). We've had only a couple small fixes with our Model X and Tesla was very quick to service it (they even have mobile service vans to cover about 75% of all repairs). In fact did you know they can swap out an entire electric motor in less than an hour???

Regarding battery efficiency: real world tests have show that (at least Tesla) batteries maintain on average 90%+ of their original new charge even at 100k miles. Think of how many ICE vehicles lose significant amounts of horsepower over time as they age. An EV may see a small range penalty but no horsepower penalty. I've only seen about 3 miles of range decrease on our Model X at 40k miles (255 to 252).
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