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Old 02-27-2019, 09:07 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by madmonk View Post
Put my deposit down today for the Rivian R1T! We typically drive about 5 hours per day anyway, so 200-250 miles of range while towing would work for us. As far as I can tell you can charge most EV's with the 50amp hookup in campgrounds in about 8 hours? Seems to me that would be a perfect setup! We also carry a generator, so in a pinch could hook up and recharge off of that. (I know, kinda defeats the whole purpose of an EV, but certainly could bail you out in an emergency.)

I would have constant anxiety on the road with my AS being restricted to how far I can go under what conditions and at the same time making it somewhere specific so I can refuel. You might as well forget making any real time driving through mountainous terrain. That could cut your range further.
Not for me thank you. Take all the fun out of being on the road and carefree.
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Old 02-27-2019, 11:05 AM   #62
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Rivian has been secretly testing its electric trucks disguised as Ford F-150s

Rivian, the startup electric vehicle company developing an electric pickup capable of up to 400 miles of range, has apparently been doing much of its road testing in Detroit under the disguise of the Ford F-150.
Rivian R1T: The Electric Pickup With a Front Trunk That Does 0 to 60 MPH in 3 Seconds
For months now, Jalopnik has been getting tips sent in of funny-seeming F-150 pickups that appear to be missing tailpipes, or with other weird or missing features, with many speculating that the trucks were actually the upcoming hybrid version of the F-150 or some other electrified Ford. You can see some photos of an F-150 charging, for example, over on Carscoops.
But now it seems like some of these weird test vehicles could have actually been Rivian prototypes, at least according to R.J. Scaringe, founder and CEO of Rivian. Here’s the part of an interview mentioning the disguised test trucks, from the Detroit Free Press:

Justin T. Westbrook - Jalopnik - February 27, 2019


While it’s not too unusual for automakers to disguise their test vehicles, sometimes with design cues seemingly meant to mimic competitors, it’s sort of funny that Rivian’s skateboard platform fits the wheelbase of the F-150 so perfectly, as the F-150 is probably actually the benchmark for the R1T’s design and designed to be similar in size to the Ford.
With the company’s explosive reveal at last year’s LA Auto Show and Amazon recently leading an investment of $700 million in Rivian, the company has gone from an unknown startup to a hyped up segment leader in the development of electric pickups.
The Detroit Free Press story also mentions that Rivian claims to have exceeded its expectations for orders of its R1T pickup and R1S seven-seat SUV, with more vehicles planned to be announced later next year. The CEO wouldn’t comment on rumors of potential talks between Rivian and GM, but it seems like a lot could change between now and then.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:19 PM   #63
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It is a violation of policy at many campgrounds (and illegal at some state park campgrounds) to charge an EV as the cost model and infrastructure isn’t designed for something that draws 100kwh in a day.

You may want to do the math on the generator idea, a 15amp charge rate to put 180kwh into the truck is going to take a while (5-days?).
All things to consider, certainly. I've asked several campgrounds and most don't seem to have an issue with charging an EV. Perhaps that will change when it becomes more commonplace.

I wouldn't fully charge with a generator, but if you miscalculated and ran out of juice in the middle of nowhere, thinking it may work just to get down the road to a bit. Forced boondocking, I suppose!

Seems the Rivian may have a "jerry can" option in development as well, where you can carry an extra battery for additional range.

I am looking forward to experimenting and the additional "adventure" of towing with an EV!
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:55 PM   #64
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Maybe not in Alaska, yet

Fascinating discussion. EV and electrical devices are just fun to use and think about. Our solar installation at the remote cabin is a huge improvement over the fossil fuel route for lights and tools (vs elec on a generator or white gas lights.)

But with the cost of electricity in most Alaska markets, can't recommend brining your EV tow vehicle north. Ditto through remote Canada. There are a lot of good reasons to pursue the EV track, but likely will be some time until practical for much of the less densely populated US and Canada. Fossil fuel is still too cheap and effective, for now.
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Old 02-27-2019, 02:21 PM   #65
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Fascinating discussion. EV and electrical devices are just fun to use and think about. Our solar installation at the remote cabin is a huge improvement over the fossil fuel route for lights and tools (vs elec on a generator or white gas lights.)

But with the cost of electricity in most Alaska markets, can't recommend brining your EV tow vehicle north. Ditto through remote Canada. There are a lot of good reasons to pursue the EV track, but likely will be some time until practical for much of the less densely populated US and Canada. Fossil fuel is still too cheap and effective, for now.
I can see where finding charging stations would be a problem, but doesn't the electricity to run an electric vehicle cost a lot less than the equivalent distance in diesel or gas, fuels which also tend to be a lot more expensive in remote areas?
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:42 PM   #66
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To be clear. I am _not_ anti-EV, however a commuter EV is drastically different than a TV EV. I say this as a former (and future) EV owner, as a realist or knowing the challenges. I have friends that have driven from the MX border up into Canada on the west coast in their Tesla’s, but I’m not going to overlook the challenges and issues for the sake of
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:54 AM   #67
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When EV-RV's become more popular there'll be campsites with a charging post, just like power pedestals with 50 amps have become more normal.

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My electric bike, which I quite like, promises me a 93 mile range when it's fully charged. 45 miles later, the battery is depleted. I know, apples and oranges, but it's easy to promise stuff.
Whenever I hear "Up to" I know it means, "Never more than" rather than "No problem".
I can throw a football "up to" 100 yards.

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I don’t get it.

Given that most electricity in the US is still produced by burning fossil fuels, charging an electric car can indirectly generate similar amounts of greenhouse gases to a petrol-powered vehicle.
What are you, some kind of trouble maker?

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Rivian R1T: The Electric Pickup With a Front Trunk That Does 0 to 60 MPH in 3 Seconds
When we see a pallet of concrete blocks in the road, we can think, "Electric truck."
Electric motors have maximum torque right from a standing start, so 0-60 is impressive.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:07 AM   #68
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DavidsonOverlander, on the road system it is also a matter of availability. There are still places along the road where there is no step-down from the high volume wires running between cities. And off the road system, both the vehicles and the electrical generation are running off small quantity (expensive) barge or aircraft(!) delivered liquid fuel, in the vast majority of communities.
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Old 03-01-2019, 12:40 PM   #69
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As a recently retired OEM manufacturer rep, an ASer, owner of a pickup TV and a Chevy Volt, I would not buy an EV tow vehicle. Not until range, and recharge availability matches (nearly) what it takes for fossil fuel. And cost of charge must be substantially less than fuel. Love my volt, for fuel free local driving and solo regional travel. I'm at about 70% electric miles.
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:40 PM   #70
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As a recently retired OEM manufacturer rep, an ASer, owner of a pickup TV and a Chevy Volt, I would not buy an EV tow vehicle. Not until range, and recharge availability matches (nearly) what it takes for fossil fuel. And cost of charge must be substantially less than fuel. Love my volt, for fuel free local driving and solo regional travel. I'm at about 70% electric miles.
I think the Rivian is more like a commuter pickup truck, for those who use a pickup daily but don’t necessarily tow with it. Half the vehicles here at work are pickups, and many have never towed.

For someone like me who prefers a real full-size car (not the front wheel drive midsize cars they try to pass off as full size) a light pickup makes a good daily driver. The half ton is today’s “car”.
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:58 PM   #71
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I think the Rivian is more like a commuter pickup truck, for those who use a pickup daily but don’t necessarily tow with it. Half the vehicles here at work are pickups, and many have never towed.

For someone like me who prefers a real full-size car (not the front wheel drive midsize cars they try to pass off as full size) a light pickup makes a good daily driver. The half ton is today’s “car”.
Sure, no question. A lot of pickups are used that way. My only point is, I am not (and I don't think a significant amount of the total market is) interested is a significant change in lifestyle when it comes to transportation and hauling (towing).
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:45 PM   #72
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EV's do look promising, I think it's going to take 4 or 5 more years before I might take the leap. There is much charging infrastructure yet to be built, where do you go on the road if you need repairs/service. How long do the battery packs last and does your travel range decrease (and at what rate) as the vehicle ages. I will watch from the sidelines for now, but it does look exciting!!
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:45 PM   #73
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If I had to bet, I'd not put money against GM. We drove a Bolt (all electric) not too long ago. The normality of the experience is what struck me most.

Surface transport isn't aerospace, but the "anything goes" school of software development is all but dead. I'm hopeful Tesla is staying on top of that, but have some suspicions.

Embedded software is different - and takes a very different mindset - from desktop, whether it's cars or hospital equipment. You become the exception handler.

If Rivian is based out of MI, maybe, just maybe, they've snapped up some people who don't draw a total blank look when they hear someone say FMEA.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:31 AM   #74
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EV's do look promising, I think it's going to take 4 or 5 more years before I might take the leap. There is much charging infrastructure yet to be built, where do you go on the road if you need repairs/service. How long do the battery packs last and does your travel range decrease (and at what rate) as the vehicle ages. I will watch from the sidelines for now, but it does look exciting!!
Hundred years and still waiting. It will not happen in anyone's lifetime commenting on this thread.
EV will never be able to compete with the ICE.
Wind, Solar , EV are all forcefed onto society. When and if the time ever comes that they can outcompete in the market place then I will consider them a success.
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:50 PM   #75
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Hundred years and still waiting. It will not happen in anyone's lifetime commenting on this thread.
EV will never be able to compete with the ICE.
Wind, Solar , EV are all forcefed onto society. When and if the time ever comes that they can outcompete in the market place then I will consider them a success.
Renewable Energy Will Be Consistently Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels By 2020, Report Claims

The problem with costing electricity from fossil fuels is that we are not paying the full cost. There are medical costs associated with air pollution, environmental costs associated with oil spills, and the costs of global climate change, including more severe weather and forced migration from low lying areas.

I will happily put up with some inconvenience in switching to an electric vehicle. Whatever that amounts to will be far less than what will be faced by many around the world who will be forced to deal with changes to our climate caused, for the most part, by the citizens of developed countries.

Being able to travel long distance with a minimal time spent refueling is a relatively recent convenience. It only 'seems' necessary because it's all most of us have ever known.
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Old 03-02-2019, 02:57 PM   #76
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Hundred years and still waiting. It will not happen in anyone's lifetime commenting on this thread.
EV will never be able to compete with the ICE.
Wind, Solar , EV are all forcefed onto society. When and if the time ever comes that they can outcompete in the market place then I will consider them a success.
Happening right now. Over 1 million EVs will be built this year. With $2 gas we might not catch on right away but all the OEMs are working on electrification. The diesel car is king in Europe but I was just there and charging stations are popping up. Might not “outcompete” as you say, and retirees might not get it but those in the industry know it’s coming.

I’m not giving up my big diesel truck but God made 3 car garages for a reason.
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Old 03-02-2019, 04:54 PM   #77
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I don't disagree that EVs are cheaper than ICE vehicles to operate fuel wise right now, but don't fool yourself into thinking it will remain that way, once EVs become the majority of vehicles on the road. Taxes added on the gas/diesel fuel sales that in "theory" pay for road repairs, etc now will be severely decreased. I envision a mileage tax, obviously increased electricity costs and other "fees" added to EV and ICE ownership. I am sure campgrounds will start adding additional "carbon footprint and/or electrical use" fees to the RV experience(campfires, EV charging,etc.). So, the future might not be as bright for EV RVing (and all RVing in general) as the"forward thinkers" on this forum might hope. The future of RVing might be limited to looking at places on a computer screen. As everyone knows, if you cared about the climate, you would never leave home and utilize a device that negatively impacts the environment in its manufacture, use and it's eventual disposal, especially for personal enjoyment. Times are a changing... Travel safe!!
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Old 03-02-2019, 05:50 PM   #78
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I don't disagree that EVs are cheaper than ICE vehicles to operate fuel wise right now, but don't fool yourself into thinking it will remain that way, once EVs become the majority of vehicles on the road. Taxes added on the gas/diesel fuel sales that in "theory" pay for road repairs, etc now will be severely decreased. I envision a mileage tax, obviously increased electricity costs and other "fees" added to EV and ICE ownership. I am sure campgrounds will start adding additional "carbon footprint and/or electrical use" fees to the RV experience(campfires, EV charging,etc.). So, the future might not be as bright for EV RVing (and all RVing in general) as the"forward thinkers" on this forum might hope. The future of RVing might be limited to looking at places on a computer screen. As everyone knows, if you cared about the climate, you would never leave home and utilize a device that negatively impacts the environment in its manufacture, use and it's eventual disposal, especially for personal enjoyment. Times are a changing... Travel safe!!
EVs will be a fraction of what’s on the road, not a majority, kinda like my diesel pickup. Perhaps taxes can be collected based on miles driven rather than fuel used, with transponders to collect the data. They’ll find a way to collect. And even in Europe where fuel is $8 a gallon, people still camp. It’ll be fine.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:02 PM   #79
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I think EV’s have their place. And in the next 10 years they will become more predominant. But I do know that their range decreases considerably in cold environments. And what about with a 7500lbs on the back end towing? And what about mountain towing? Too many questions and concerns. Not going to get excited about this just yet.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:37 PM   #80
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For one thing Tesla is now in financial trouble. Why? Because the subsidy is ending soon which makes buying an EV less desirable. They are going to try and sell that $35,000 Tesla via the internet to cut costs. Close storefronts, etc. Yet they have said they can’t make any money at $35,000. I pity the Tesla owners out there right now. Tesla isn’t going to close the doors right away, but it doesn’t look good.

This would be my concern with Rivian. What kind of market will their be for an EV pickup. I’d say it’s going to be very narrow at this point.

I’m not saying that EV vehicles aren’t a good idea. I think they are a great idea. But until the Big 3 start producing them there’s going to be problems. And there’s probably a good reason they aren’t doing it: no profit.

This is why government subsidies are terrible by the way. It created an artificial market. Tesla put something on the market that wasn’t really profitable and ready for mass production and mass appeal. It was enabled by subsidies. Unless it can bring down production costs considerably once those subsidies are taken off......not good.
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