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kscherzi · 07-26-2015, 05:47 PM

I finished installing the Display Panel. Because the hole in the aluminum interior skin was just ever so slightly larger than the SeeLevel Display Unit I needed to make an adapter panel. I used 3/16 clear acrylic sheet cut with my table saw. Used a Dremel to cut the interior part out and spray painted it flat black (photo attached). I think its a good match.

To test the job I placed the garden hose into the shower on full blast. The SeeLevel incremented upward in 5% increments. At 100% I stopped adding water then slowly added more water until it pooled in the shower pan. Probably added 3 or 4 gallons after 100% before pooling in the shower. I'd say that's about perfect! My old MicroPulse would still be reading 3/8 full.

I filled the black to where I guessed about a third. Didn't want the hose to touch the toiled so just stood there pressing on the flush lever. After a while I got bored and guessed it to be 1/4 to 1/2 full. SeeLevel said 30%. Awesome. I'm very happy. The old MicroPulse never got above 1/8 full.

Unfortunately I ran into some very bad news. As I was beginning to stick on the fresh water sensor I felt some moisture where it didn't belong. After some investigation I discovered the tank has a crack where the pipe to pump enters. Due to the accumulated dirt and minerals around the area its clear the crack has existed for some time. Warranty ran out 2 months ago. As the crack and associated pipes are normally hidden I guess its a blessing to have found out now before more damage occurs. Anyway, I didn't stick on the fresh sensor in case the crack solution is to replace the fresh water tank.

All in all I'm very pleased so far with the SeeLevel setup. Due to the difficult nature of getting to the tanks and fishing wire everywhere it was not a quick nor easy project. It is doable though.

Things still to go: The SeeLevel manual says to only run 7.5 amps of current to through its switch or heat generated will damage the adjacent electronics. To account for this I did run a dedicated wire from the main panel with a 7.5 amp fuse. Since my pump is rated at 9 amps max I assume at some point it will rev to max speed and blow the fuse. To deal with that I fished another wire from the main panel the pump area. I also bought a relay. Another day I'll wire in the relay, this will allow up to a 15 amp pump if needed.

**jcanavera** · 07-26-2015, 05:57 PM

FYI the Micropulse unit used to carry a 5 year warranty from the manufacturer. I replaced mine at 4 years due to a burnt out LED. I contacted the manufacturer directly and they sent me a new one. No need to return the defective one.

Jack

kscherzi · 07-26-2015, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

So you ran both the gray and black sensor wires up through the subfloor. Where did the hole in the subfloor end up, somewhere under the fridge?

How did you fish new wire up to the monitor panel through the walls? Did you attach the new wire to the Micropulse wire and then pull it through the wall. I would think AS runs the wires through small holes in the ribs, hopefully there are grommets in the holes. I wonder if the insulation is added after the wiring.

It looks like when you dropped the galvanized pan the black water tank stayed supported from above. Is dropping the tank putting any stress on the plumbing fittings?

On my model trailer the Display Panel is on curbside. The ideal locations for the sensors is street side (deepest parts of the tanks). I ran the new wires through the empty space in the wall using a fish tape. I was able to get them under the counter-top where I encountered a horizontal rib so then ultimately had to drill a hole and bring them out behind some drawers. My trailer has a under floor chase between the heater and water pump area. Once I got the wires to the water pump area it was easy to follow the pipes into the fresh water tank area and the other direction into the grey/black area.

I ignored the MicroPulse telephone wires and did not used them to pull wires or anything.

Yes - dropping the pan does put some stress on the plumbing fittings. I ended up supporting the pan with some buckets and wood after it dropped a few inches. To drop the pan all the way would be a bigger project and may damage the tanks and other fittings as the tanks are not supported with straps or anything but the big galvanized pan.

KJRitchie · 07-26-2015, 07:01 PM

I wonder if you could use some type of epoxy to repair the fitting, such as JB Weld.

I suppose the wires from the Micropulse panel are part of a loom so you couldn't use them to pull wires through the kitchen curbside wall. When fishing through the wall do you just run the fish tape against the interior wall until you hit a rib? The wall insulation didn't get in the way?. How many wires do you have to get up to the motor panel area.

My monitor panel is in the kitchen area (25fb) too. I'm guess the under floor chase is between the hall closet and panty in my floor plan..

To gain access to the wires on the kitchen side all you needed to do is remove the kitchen counter drawers? You just put the fish tape down from the monitor panel opening. I guess you have to cut a large hole in the interior wall behind the drawers, then run the wires to the underfloor chase?

All this sounds like a difficult process just to get the wires from the panel. Getting the sensor on I though was going to be the most difficult part.

The bezel you made is a great idea.

Again thanks for contributing.

Kelvin

ghaynes755 · 07-26-2015, 07:39 PM

Kelvin I only did it with the fresh water tank. I need to try it at some point when I am someplace where I have full hookups and can dump after the test.

kscherzi · 07-26-2015, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghaynes755

So I noticed that the grey water indication on the SeeLevel in my 2015 Classic seemed to be indicating higher than what I thought was in the tank.

Yesterday i took out the garden hose and attached my water flow meter and started filling the grey tank from the kitchen sink. Grey tank empty. I noted the readings as they changed on the SeeLevel and jotted down the gals off of the meter. Chart looks like this.

So accurate to 25% and then starts to get increasingly inaccurate. Tank is 37 gals and at 37 gal mark the sink stopped taking water.

This is a factory install. According to the manual there is no direct calibration of the water tanks, only the LPG tanks (Classic has senders on the LPG tanks).

Thoughts/suggestions? I'll call SeeLevel tomorrow. Also plan to check the sensor following the outline in the trouble shooting section later today.

Would be nice to have it indicating 100% at about the 35 gal mark.

Since you are still under warranty take it back. It ought to be much more accurate. I bet someone botched the install of the grey sensor. These are measuring strips that measure within their lengths. It needs to be between 1/4" and 3/4" from top and same from bottom. Seems like they set it too low. I made sure to position both black and grey senders nearer to the top, since full is more critical for those tanks.

kscherzi · 07-26-2015, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

I wonder if you could use some type of epoxy to repair the fitting, such as JB Weld.

I suppose the wires from the Micropulse panel are part of a loom so you couldn't use them to pull wires through the kitchen curbside wall. When fishing through the wall do you just run the fish tape against the interior wall until you hit a rib? The wall insulation didn't get in the way?. How many wires do you have to get up to the motor panel area.

My monitor panel is in the kitchen area (25fb) too. I'm guess the under floor chase is between the hall closet and panty in my floor plan..

To gain access to the wires on the kitchen side all you needed to do is remove the kitchen counter drawers? You just put the fish tape down from the monitor panel opening. I guess you have to cut a large hole in the interior wall behind the drawers, then run the wires to the underfloor chase?

All this sounds like a difficult process just to get the wires from the panel. Getting the sensor on I though was going to be the most difficult part.

The bezel you made is a great idea.

Again thanks for contributing.

Kelvin

I recall the 25FB is nearly identical to the 27FB. Directly below the Micropulse Display Panel is a 120 volt outlet and below that are light switches. Below all that and just under the countertop is a horizontal rib. Pull out the drawers that are below that and looking under the counter you should see a line of rivets. That's the horizontal rib. I drilled a 1/2" hole just above that and used a coat hanger wire to fish up. It was actually pretty easy. To finish everything I gathered the wires together with some split tubing. Specifically shoving it through the drilled hole in the aluminum and securing with silicon sealant to protect from abrasion as the trailer is towed.

Run three wires up from there. A 18 gauge or higher blue and black wire and a 14 gauge red for a new pump run. The red wires goes to a empty fuse spot on the power center (7.5 amp fuse). The other two wires connect to all the SeeLevel sender's.

Under the coat closet is the water pump. On the other side is the hot water heater. Connecting both areas is a under floor chase. Various wires are routed there. This is an excellent route for the blue and black wires. Since the water pump is connected to the fresh tank just follow that path. I ended up drilling a 1/2" hole just to the side of the hot air inlet to the gray/black that supposedly keeps that area from freezing.

Regardless. It's a puzzle with many solutions.

dznf0g · 07-27-2015, 06:43 AM

Is there some reason you all aren't using 2 conductors in the existing telephone wires? They are already there and mine works perfectly with them.

Also, the consistency and accuracy of the systems depends entirely upon your choice of location of the sender, the length of the sender relative to your location, and the shape of the tank (particularly the slope of the bottom).

kscherzi · 07-27-2015, 07:07 AM

The sender's and Display Panel have 18 gauge leads. Also the effort involved in dropping the pan, cutting a hole, etc. Didn't want to risk any latent issues using the light gauge phone wires. How about an over abundance of caution?

dznf0g · 07-27-2015, 07:16 AM

While I understand the leads are 18ga, the manual is mute on size of sender wiring required. However, the total load of the panel and sensors, while a button is pushed and display is lit is less than 200mA, per below.

"Display requires 12 volts from the RV battery,
the system will function from 11 volts to 16
volts. Current drain is less than 200mA."

I am the guinea pig, i guess, but I think you all are making this WAAAAY harder than it needs to be. I am here to testify that the system works perfectly utilizing the phone cables.

kscherzi · 07-27-2015, 08:31 AM

Making it harder than needs to be. Wouldn't be the first time!

I tend to agree the phone lines probably would be fine. Did you install a pump relay or in line fuse? The label on my SurFlow pump says 9 amps max. The instructions said to use a 7.5 amp fuse to avoid overheating the Display Panel.

dznf0g · 07-27-2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Making it harder than needs to be. Wouldn't be the first time!

I tend to agree the phone lines probably would be fine. Did you install a pump relay or in line fuse? The label on my SurFlow pump says 9 amps max. The instructions said to use a 7.5 amp fuse to avoid overheating the Display Panel.

No, and I cant remember the sizing, but the switch in the Micropulse is dimensionally the same and snaps into the existing hole in the SeeLevel. It is a higher amperage switch and, IIRC meets the requirements of the SeeLevel recommendation.

KJRitchie · 07-27-2015, 10:34 AM

This job sounds easier now that Rich and kscherzi are comparing notes.

How do you gain access to the fresh water tank. My 25fb doesn't have much access from above.

My water tank has a rotocast outer shell. Maybe cutting a access hole near the drain valve would be best. I could then replace the drain valve and short hose.

Thanks.

Kelvin

Kelvin

kscherzi · 07-27-2015, 10:57 AM

Access to the fresh tank was easiest of all on my trailer. For some reason Airstream included a factory cutout on the bottom of the galvanized pan. Look under your trailer, street side, directly behind the tires. The cutout cover is exactly adjacent to the little white fresh drain valve. Held on by four screws. Opened it up and I found all three telephone wires. Directly above the opening there's a perfect flat spot on the tank that's not too hard to get to, to stick on the sender.

If using the telephone wires, I'd estimate 30 minutes from opening the access, to connecting the two wires, sticking on the sender and buttoning it all back up. It would be faster if the work wasn't upside down.

- Kurt

dznf0g · 07-27-2015, 12:12 PM

Kelvin, Not sure how a 25' Classic is different than my 30'er, but the closet floor lifts out. The area underneath houses the water pump, flexible ducting and wiring. After moving the ducting out of the way, and taking the time to actually disconnect some, there is a cutout in the floor about 8" square. This is where the fill hose and pump intake go down to the fresh tank. There is pretty easy access to the same flat area that Kurt talks about. It's still a bit of a challenge, but works well.

KJRitchie · 07-27-2015, 01:26 PM

To get to that cut out on my 25fb Classic I have to access the area under my refrigerator. There is a shallow cabinet under the fridge barely tall enough for a bottle of 409. I can remove the panel at the back of the cabinet and see the ducting. I can't see directly down the hole but I've tried to put my arm down it up to my elbow. Can't feel the Micropulse sensor or where the water pickup line enters the tank or feel the bottom of the tank.

AS didn't use a galvanized pan like on my gray/black tank but a Rotocast shell strapped to the frame. I only have a 37gal freshwater tank. Maybe on the 27 and 30 its a 50 gal tank and they used a galvanized shell.

When the holding tanks are empty I guess they are not too heavy. Are the black tank vent and toilet connections strong enough to hold the tank's weight? Looking at the youTube video it appears the galvanized shell can be lowered and the black tank stays up against the subfloor.

Not sure what would happen if the Rotocast water tank shell was released. The flexible intact hose could be left on but I'm sure the output line to the water pump would have to be disconnected.

Nothing seems to come easy on my AS. Even changing a light bulb gets complicated.

Kelvin

dznf0g · 07-27-2015, 01:33 PM

Some say the plumbing held theirs....some say it didn't (units older than yours....old glue?) I was too nervous to try it, Yup, the 30 has 54 gal fresh tank and galvanized pan...or 59, can't recall.

kscherzi · 08-02-2015, 03:46 PM

Went camping this weekend, stayed at a RV park. Good think because temps were in 90's and it was unseasonably humid. The AC ran all day. We stayed there with friends to see Buddy Guy play at Ironstone Vineyards Amphitheater.

Back on topic. The Micropulse worked fabulously. Wife and I took several showers, not the navy kind, bit longer without turning off the water. With a proven reading accuracy to within 5 percent I never worried about grey water overflow. Such a pleasure to have a tank monitoring system that actually does what it claims to do.

kscherzi · 08-09-2015, 08:05 PM

One more update. Today I installed a relay switch for the water pump per instructions by SeeLevel. Apparently the SeeLevel wall unit is rated for 7.5 amps max of current to the water pump. I checked and found the Airstream installed unit, a Shurflow pump, draws up to 9 amps. If I chose to not do anything I risk overheating the SeeLevel wall unit and voiding their warranty.

I installed a standard auto type relay that's rated for 30 amps. It's mounted on a convenient wall part about one foot from the pump. I ran a new wire direct from the power panel to the relay off a 15 amp fuse, the same fuse location that used to go the old Micropulse wall unit then onto the pump. I then ran another new wire to the SeeLevel from a unused fuse panel location through a 7.5 amp fuse, though this wire is now drawing somewhere in the range of 300 milliamps for the relay.

Bottom line, when turning on the pump from the wall panel, it uses very low current to switch a relay switch that sends up to 15 amps to the water pump from a more direct path.

Probably overkill but my conscience is clear.

ghaynes755 · 08-10-2015, 12:00 PM

Interesting discussion. My 2015 Classic has a SureFlo 4048-153-V15 and the sticker says 10amp Max. Wonder if the new model has a relay. Need to do some checking.